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Post by laughter on Jan 26, 2021 23:26:16 GMT -5
I actually agree with social distancing, but not the masks. Having said that, I've worn one without fail to a shop since they were mandated, and even returned home to get one if I've forgotten it. I've looked into it, and the science of masks is shaky (the WHO just a couple of days ago said there is no scientific reason why someone should wear a mask outside of a hospital...they change their mind every few weeks!), but it's one of those situations where even if the science was solidly in support, my body would still provide 'rejection' signals i.e I am clear my body doesn't want to wear it. But I do, because those are the rules, and I am not rebellious in that way. What I notice is that people tend to get mad at non-mask wearers in shops, where folks are meant to wear masks. They don't get mad at them if they are stood near them anywhere else. So I think really what it's about is the rule breaking more than anything. The fact is that last year, when restrictions were softened a bit, the vast majority of folks went to a non-essential shop, pub, restaurant...played sport, went to the beach, saw a friend or family. Most folks did 'something' if they didn't feel totally vulnerable. Yet every single one of them knew they were contributing to spread. They knew it. So in my eyes, we have a huge amount of hypocrites in the UK right now. I can't blame them for that, as said, I think we've been NLP'd by the government to blame each other, rather than blame government. My wife's aunt and uncle died of covid. There are immune compromised folk in my family. When people don't wear a mask indoors around me or my family, I perceive it as a threat. I can't knock them on their arse because it's against the law so I flip them off. I don't care to argue or have any interest in convincing you about its benefits. I've got exactly zero resistance to mask mandates, but it's simply a plain, cold hard fact that the weaves are just way too coarse to contain viral particles, and also factual that droplets and airflow are restricted. The balance between those two suggests to me that the mandates - especially in outdoor spaces or even big box stores - aren't about science, but, instead, sentiment. My sentiment is that if it makes people feel better, then fine, I won't object, and people have a right to set their own private standards, but I find it rather abhorrent as a public new normal, and for many more than just one reason, and especially sympathize with the low-wage workers who have to deal with the public. |
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Post by esponja on Jan 26, 2021 23:31:30 GMT -5
My wife's aunt and uncle died of covid. There are immune compromised folk in my family. When people don't wear a mask indoors around me or my family, I perceive it as a threat. I can't knock them on their arse because it's against the law so I flip them off. I don't care to argue or have any interest in convincing you about its benefits. I've got exactly zero resistance to mask mandates, but it's simply a plain, cold hard fact that the weaves are just way too coarse to contain viral particles, and also factual that droplets and airflow are restricted. The balance between those two suggests to me that the mandates - especially in outdoor spaces or even big box stores - aren't about science, but, instead, sentiment. My sentiment is that if it makes people feel better, then fine, I won't object, and people have a right to set their own private standards, but I find it rather abhorrent as a public new normal, and for many more than just one reason, and especially sympathize with the low-wage workers who have to deal with the public. There’s so much hypocrisy. No Australia day fireworks here but protests all fine! |
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Post by laughter on Jan 27, 2021 0:00:14 GMT -5
I've got exactly zero resistance to mask mandates, but it's simply a plain, cold hard fact that the weaves are just way too coarse to contain viral particles, and also factual that droplets and airflow are restricted. The balance between those two suggests to me that the mandates - especially in outdoor spaces or even big box stores - aren't about science, but, instead, sentiment. My sentiment is that if it makes people feel better, then fine, I won't object, and people have a right to set their own private standards, but I find it rather abhorrent as a public new normal, and for many more than just one reason, and especially sympathize with the low-wage workers who have to deal with the public. There’s so much hypocrisy. No Australia day fireworks here but protests all fine! As the exact same thing is happening here, perhaps we could say that it's a global contagion!  |
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Post by zazeniac on Jan 27, 2021 1:13:12 GMT -5
My wife's aunt and uncle died of covid. There are immune compromised folk in my family. When people don't wear a mask indoors around me or my family, I perceive it as a threat. I can't knock them on their arse because it's against the law so I flip them off. I don't care to argue or have any interest in convincing you about its benefits. I've got exactly zero resistance to mask mandates, but it's simply a plain, cold hard fact that the weaves are just way too coarse to contain viral particles, and also factual that droplets and airflow are restricted. The balance between those two suggests to me that the mandates - especially in outdoor spaces or even big box stores - aren't about science, but, instead, sentiment. My sentiment is that if it makes people feel better, then fine, I won't object, and people have a right to set their own private standards, but I find it rather abhorrent as a public new normal, and for many more than just one reason, and especially sympathize with the low-wage workers who have to deal with the public. I can show a dozen studies that contradict your argument. They are not fool proof, but they reduce the risk of infection and the viral load. Japan and South Korea have fairly universal mask usage and limited lockdowns. Japan has experienced 41 deaths per million. South Korea 27 deaths per million. Compare this to Sweden's 900 per million or 1200 per million for the US. |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 27, 2021 1:37:14 GMT -5
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Post by esponja on Jan 27, 2021 2:42:00 GMT -5
I know I don’t need to declare it, but I will anyhow as it’s a spiritual observation. I am noticing my mind’s need to defend my beliefs so am going to back out of this thread.
I find the various ways we all think and ways we all determine what things mean very interesting indeed.
Isn’t it odd that there are such differing opinions on what is happening with this pandemic? Shouldn’t it be straightforward?
I believe we co-create our reality Attention and beliefs and confditioning are everything.
For now I choose to observe.
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Post by laughter on Jan 27, 2021 2:53:13 GMT -5
I've got exactly zero resistance to mask mandates, but it's simply a plain, cold hard fact that the weaves are just way too coarse to contain viral particles, and also factual that droplets and airflow are restricted. The balance between those two suggests to me that the mandates - especially in outdoor spaces or even big box stores - aren't about science, but, instead, sentiment. My sentiment is that if it makes people feel better, then fine, I won't object, and people have a right to set their own private standards, but I find it rather abhorrent as a public new normal, and for many more than just one reason, and especially sympathize with the low-wage workers who have to deal with the public. I can show a dozen studies that contradict your argument. They are not fool proof, but they reduce the risk of infection and the viral load. Japan and South Korea have fairly universal mask usage and limited lockdowns. Japan has experienced 41 deaths per million. South Korea 27 deaths per million. Compare this to Sweden's 900 per million or 1200 per million for the US. I accounted for the fact that they block air flow and droplets, but that doesn't contradict the fact that most of them won't contain the virus particles, and masking is only one factor contributing to those numbers, and it's unclear how much of a factor in those differentials it is. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 27, 2021 2:54:24 GMT -5
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Post by Reefs on Jan 27, 2021 5:24:58 GMT -5
I know I don’t need to declare it, but I will anyhow as it’s a spiritual observation. I am noticing my mind’s need to defend my beliefs so am going to back out of this thread.I find the various ways we all think and ways we all determine what things mean very interesting indeed. Isn’t it odd that there are such differing opinions on what is happening with this pandemic? Shouldn’t it be straightforward? I believe we co-create our reality Attention and beliefs and confditioning are everything. For now I choose to observe. Good! Noticing is the first step. Let's see how long you can stay away (you are not the first one who said something like that in this thread).  Hard to break the momentum, apparently. But that's where practice could actually help, getting you out of unhealthy behavior patterns. |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 27, 2021 5:37:11 GMT -5
All,
I know these are both trying and exciting times and a lot of people don't understand what is happening so they look for guidance. And I understand that urge. But I am still of the opinion that purely political discussions have no place here, because no matter how spiritually oriented we start a discussion about politics, at some point it always becomes just another excuse for people to attack each other over their own entrenched political views, left against right, good against evil. Political discussions seem to have the tendency to cater to the lowest common denominator and the more opinionated the participants, the lower that common denominator seems to be. Interestingly, some of our more aware members repeatedly made an attempt to bring it back to spirituality but apparently to no avail. The one with the strongest opinions is usually going to dominate a discussion.
Said that, I'll let this thread move along unmoderated for a few more days (end of the month). If the discussion should go back to spirituality, I'll keep this thread open. If the discussion should further deteriorate into political food fights, I'll probably close this thread because I have no interest in moderating this kind of stuff. To me, you are all right and all wrong in your own way, so from my perspective it's all just noise, and I wouldn't know where to start and where to stop if I would have to moderate that.
Now you all know the game plan.
There's a spiritual opportunity for everyone involved here.
R
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Post by andrew on Jan 27, 2021 7:06:34 GMT -5
All, I know these are both trying and exciting times and a lot of people don't understand what is happening so they look for guidance. And I understand that urge. But I am still of the opinion that purely political discussions have no place here, because no matter how spiritually oriented we start a discussion about politics, at some point it always becomes just another excuse for people to attack each other over their own entrenched political views, left against right, good against evil. Political discussions seem to have the tendency to cater to the lowest common denominator and the more opinionated the participants, the lower that common denominator seems to be. Interestingly, some of our more aware members repeatedly made an attempt to bring it back to spirituality but apparently to no avail. The one with the strongest opinions is usually going to dominate a discussion. Said that, I'll let this thread move along unmoderated for a few more days (end of the month). If the discussion should go back to spirituality, I'll keep this thread open. If the discussion should further deteriorate into political food fights, I'll probably close this thread because I have no interest in moderating this kind of stuff. To me, you are all right and all wrong in your own way, so from my perspective it's all just noise, and I wouldn't know where to start and where to stop if I would have to moderate that. Now you all know the game plan. There's a spiritual opportunity for everyone involved here. R I think part of the question I have been very interested in relates to this. I don't have an interest in supporting Trump over Biden here (or vice versa), nor do I have an interest in discussing whether masks work, or lockdowns work. I can do all that elsewhere and get more than my fill of it lol. What I am interested in is where the spiritual questions/issues begin and end. So even though I have no interest in discussing Trump vs Biden I would say that the nature of our spirituality may actually feed into who we support. Same is true for our perspectives on the pandemic (how it is created and perpetuated), vaccines, lockdowns etc... In previous years, our spirituality hasn't NOTICABLY fed into real life matters. In a sense, we have been able to divorce the two, and what a pleasant thing that was. These days, it's different. I mean, obviously there is still a definite difference between pointing to 'the beyond' / 'the prior to' etc...and a discussion about politics! But in a sense, life is demanding that we participate in life issues, which are going to be informed by our spiritual insights/views That's what makes it all so....interesting. Having said that, if the most appropriate thing for the forum is to hold a spot of quiet, where 'pointing' is the purpose of the forum, then that's sincerely fine with me. It might be that having the forum as a kind of 'retreat' from the world is a good thing for folks, and I can definitely respect that. |
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Post by Reefs on Jan 27, 2021 7:19:43 GMT -5
Having said that, if the most appropriate thing for the forum is to hold a spot of quiet, where 'pointing' is the purpose of the forum, then that's sincerely fine with me. It might be that having the forum as a kind of 'retreat' from the world is a good thing for folks, and I can definitely respect that. That's the idea, yes. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 27, 2021 7:31:29 GMT -5
Having said that, if the most appropriate thing for the forum is to hold a spot of quiet, where 'pointing' is the purpose of the forum, then that's sincerely fine with me. It might be that having the forum as a kind of 'retreat' from the world is a good thing for folks, and I can definitely respect that. That's the idea, yes. Okay, I'll bear that in mind, and if you close the thread no problem at all. An interesting article here about life in the UK for elderly folks. It's not political. www.conservativewoman.co.uk/dont-kill-granny-just-terrify-or-ignore-her/If anyone reads, I'm interested in how they think their spiritual views inform their perspective/opinion on the content (if at all). And for balance, I'll say right now, that ultimately, all of this is just mind 'minding'. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 27, 2021 7:43:04 GMT -5
This doesn't quite capture my own experience of 'bliss' but I can still relate to an extent.
'When you know bliss, you are ready to die, doesn't matter what age you are, where you are....'
Interesting few minutes. I'm going to watch this guy some more.
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Post by andrew on Jan 27, 2021 8:18:29 GMT -5
Okay, I'll bear that in mind, and if you close the thread no problem at all. An interesting article here about life in the UK for elderly folks. It's not political. www.conservativewoman.co.uk/dont-kill-granny-just-terrify-or-ignore-her/If anyone reads, I'm interested in how they think their spiritual views inform their perspective/opinion on the content (if at all). And for balance, I'll say right now, that ultimately, all of this is just mind 'minding'. I know some people here who have been adversely effected by the shutdowns, it's sad and it's unhealthy.. we simply drew a bad hand, learn from it, but don't let affect the next one. never go "on tilt" as they say, keep your wits about you. Hmmm Thinking.... As spiritual folks, I think it's fair to say that we don't have the same fear of death as many folks. We don't have the same kind of experience of 'endings' (or 'beginnings'). For us, beginnings and endings are more an arbitrary measurement perhaps, than they are a 'real occurrence'. But they can still be felt deeply of course. I wouldn't say that this means that spiritual folks are 'reckless', in fact it paradoxically leads perhaps to a 'reverence'. But I don't think we necessarily revere the idea that 'a person has a life'. We revere Life itself. Though perhaps I should speak for myself there instead of saying 'we'. The article questions whether the quest for 'safety' has become irrational and illogical, and I'm inclined to agree. I don't see this quest for 'safety' as a revering of Life itself. I think it's more a reverence for 'a person has a life'. And I think we are seeing the back lash of this in the fact that many old folks are suffering. |
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