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Post by andrew on Jan 23, 2021 16:51:31 GMT -5
To echo laughter.... ZD...you feeling better today...bit less like you've been sampling the wonders of the pressed grape (wine)?
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Post by laughter on Jan 23, 2021 16:52:37 GMT -5
Installed from the top-down, unlikely to make any real independent decisions .. everything Trump ain't.  I just went searching for a perfect gif, but then remembered it's not forum policy these days. Ah the days of the spiritual teachers gifs....seems like a very long time ago in a galaxy far far away. Not going to lie, that was pretty much the thought that went through my mind.  |
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Post by laughter on Jan 23, 2021 16:55:32 GMT -5
It was a joke.  You can't tell when Reefs is grinning at you! |
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Post by zendancer on Jan 23, 2021 16:56:28 GMT -5
Some folks might be interested in this. I got the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine this morning, and the side effect so far has been the equivalent of drinking two glasses of wine! It might get worse, but so far all it did was end my work day and leave me moving around in a kind of loopy brain fog. Hope you're feeling better today ZD. Reminds me of when I got my first flu vaccine in '16, but that didn't happen in '18. It is fascinating to read about the newer technology of the covid vaccines. My understanding is that it's based on fragments of RNA that stimulate protein production in the cell. Sounds like wild stuff and I'm almost curious enough to research how it's different from the old technology. Thanks. The drunken sailor side effect only lasted about 6 hours, and then I brought it back with two glasses of wine! haha. Yes, the new vaccines do exactly what you suggested whereas the older vaccines, like what J&J is producing, actually put the virus, rendered harmless, into the body to stimulate the production of anti-bodies. I haven't read how they produce the new vaccines, but it does sound fascinating. |
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Post by zendancer on Jan 23, 2021 17:02:09 GMT -5
To echo laughter.... ZD...you feeling better today...bit less like you've been sampling the wonders of the pressed grape (wine)? Also thanks. Yes, that was the strangest side effect ever, and I didn't even have to pay for it. |
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Post by zazeniac on Jan 23, 2021 17:09:30 GMT -5
Hope you're feeling better today ZD. Reminds me of when I got my first flu vaccine in '16, but that didn't happen in '18. It is fascinating to read about the newer technology of the covid vaccines. My understanding is that it's based on fragments of RNA that stimulate protein production in the cell. Sounds like wild stuff and I'm almost curious enough to research how it's different from the old technology. Thanks. The drunken sailor side effect only lasted about 6 hours, and then I brought it back with two glasses of wine! haha. Yes, the new vaccines do exactly what you suggested whereas the older vaccines, like what J&J is producing, actually put the virus, rendered harmless, into the body to stimulate the production of anti-bodies. I haven't read how they produce the new vaccines, but it does sound fascinating. I'm doing Moderna Monday night. Hope to be slurring my speech and seeing double. Did the microchip hurt going in? Is Bill talking in your head yet? |
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Post by laughter on Jan 23, 2021 17:17:53 GMT -5
Hope you're feeling better today ZD. Reminds me of when I got my first flu vaccine in '16, but that didn't happen in '18. It is fascinating to read about the newer technology of the covid vaccines. My understanding is that it's based on fragments of RNA that stimulate protein production in the cell. Sounds like wild stuff and I'm almost curious enough to research how it's different from the old technology. And they had the mRNA vaccine ready in a few days (a year ago). All the rest of the time was spent giving it to people for testing. Right, I seem to recall overhearing snippets about how the technology has been developing for years now. Sounds like a potential basis for some profoundly powerful and paradigm-shifting treatments. The reason I tend not to follow conspiracy theory generally is because I'm keenly aware of how little first-hand information on the subjects I actually have, and that gets compounded with the sciences because it's not just information involved, but the expertise required to fully understand the information. So, there's an opportunity here to understand why some people are concerned about mRNA vaccines: -- isn't it possible that they could include stimulation of other proteins unrelated to the intent of the vaccination? -- have the drug companies and those invested in what seems to have become an industrial complex centered on vaccination used the COVID crisis as a way to circumvent what might have been years or even decades of study as to potential dangers? -- is one of those potential danger's that the cellular alteration is permanent? These concerns are exacerbated by the dissonance between civil rights, on one hand, and lockdowns, social distancing directives and mask mandates, on the other hand. Those measures are undeniably efforts of social control that are anathema to previously established norms that most of us have lived with for many many decades. Some of the rhetoric of the "Great Reset" is also the basis for these concerns, as that rhetoric contains clear reference to additional and similar measures of social control. I hear both sides of this, and if we drain it of emotion, there really are two valid, rational set of competing concerns. At the other emotional extreme the two sides hurl accusations - and this is where what I'm writing is completely applicable to the OP. One side accuses the other side of insane, conspiratorial paranoia, while those so accused accuse their accuser's of deliberately planning a sudden dystopian transformation of life on Earth, and are using the vaccines as a tool for that takeover. This isn't to deny the possibility that there are individuals or groups of individuals in either (likely both) camps that aren't bad actors of various degree, but it is to suggest that it's easier to discern the details of those actors if one evaluates the situation dispassionately, and in full consciousness and acknowledgement of what they don't know. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 23, 2021 17:24:56 GMT -5
Hope you're feeling better today ZD. Reminds me of when I got my first flu vaccine in '16, but that didn't happen in '18. It is fascinating to read about the newer technology of the covid vaccines. My understanding is that it's based on fragments of RNA that stimulate protein production in the cell. Sounds like wild stuff and I'm almost curious enough to research how it's different from the old technology. Thanks. The drunken sailor side effect only lasted about 6 hours, and then I brought it back with two glasses of wine! haha.Yes, the new vaccines do exactly what you suggested whereas the older vaccines, like what J&J is producing, actually put the virus, rendered harmless, into the body to stimulate the production of anti-bodies. I haven't read how they produce the new vaccines, but it does sound fascinating.  |
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Post by laughter on Jan 23, 2021 17:30:59 GMT -5
Installed from the top-down, unlikely to make any real independent decisions .. everything Trump ain't. Clyburn's endorsement before SC is what proved decisive, then thankfully Bernie, Elizabeth, Kamala etc stepped aside so that everyone could coalesce around the best chance to topple Trump. It was the same movie I saw in '92 with Billy and '00 with 'W. It was an anointing. Nothing new, not at all, but they are always rather jarring in how sudden they happen, and the media narrative always struck me as disingenuous, because it's only ever a few fringey-crummudgeons that ever call it out for what it is: a smoke-filled back-room annointing. It was surprising to see Bernie tank so quick at the ballot box though.  It was also unexpected given how badly Joe had done in the debates and early primaries up to that point. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2021 18:15:05 GMT -5
" The Law of the Few: Based on the well-known “Pareto Principle,” or “80/20 Principle,” the Law of the Few states that the most significant attention will come from only a few key players. ..." What do you mean it doesn't apply to your mindset? Do you believe that your neighbourhood wants to maintain a natural equilibrium? well, I assume anyway that all people are doing what they feel is right. can you say what you mean by 'natural equilibrium'? My neighbourhood doesn't really have the feel of being a community, so I don't think there's much of a shared want. I would guess people in my town have the same general disparate wants as much of the rest of the country. Because the majority of people have the sense to accept that we're in a situation that we've all got to manage as best we can. So people are walking more. The local park is busy most days all day. People go shopping locally, so those businesses that are able to stay open are busy when it isn't raining. I heard that there were some Covid Marshalls discouraging people from loitering in town centres, though nothing too uncomfortable. People are eating more take aways, so local restaurants that have adapted or already had the facilities are at least keeping a client base. Most people accept that Boris is unable to lead properly so they know that they've got to make decisions that benefit them for the long term. It would be realistic to expect that the lifting of present lockdown guidelines won't happen until the warmer months of May and June. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 23, 2021 18:25:11 GMT -5
well, I assume anyway that all people are doing what they feel is right. can you say what you mean by 'natural equilibrium'? My neighbourhood doesn't really have the feel of being a community, so I don't think there's much of a shared want. I would guess people in my town have the same general disparate wants as much of the rest of the country. Because the majority of people have the sense to accept that we're in a situation that we've all got to manage as best we can. So people are walking more. The local park is busy most days all day. People go shopping locally, so those businesses that are able to stay open are busy when it isn't raining. I heard that there were some Covid Marshalls discouraging people from loitering in town centres, though nothing too uncomfortable. People are eating more take aways, so local restaurants that have adapted or already had the facilities are at least keeping a client base. Most people accept that Boris is unable to lead properly so they know that they've got to make decisions that benefit them for the long term. It would be realistic to expect that the lifting of present lockdown guidelines won't happen until the warmer months of May and June. I could probably agree with some of those observations, though I'm not too sure if there's a point I'm missing beyond the observations you are making. My sense of things could be off here, but I think I could be a bit more...'sceptical' about the overall situation than you. To give an example, I'm not sure whether the government are 'unable to lead', or if there are aspects of that government that are in the pocket of powerful corporate 'globalist' forces, and therefore their 'incompetence' isn't wholly honest. Tenka made a lot of sceptical noises in his posts that I find myself similarly wondering about. I particularly wonder about Matt Hanco.ck, who I know for sure has developed connections with those forces. I've already talked a lot about medicines that aren't being used, and the fact that doctors can only treat people in hospital itself. I'm not clear if that's just incompetence by science authorities, or if there has been a deeper agenda to bypass those medicines and go straight to the vaccine solution, for reasons I can only speculate at (e.g possibly long term financial benefit) To give another example, any NLP practitioner would know that 'stay safe' is abysmal conditioning and a terrible mantra. It literally invites people to consider the fact that they AREN'T safe. Surely there are highly qualified psychological experts that could advise our government (and other governments) of this. Our old friend Tzu was much more 'on the money' with his 'Be Well'. That's decent programming, a decent mantra. The 'stay safe' debacle is just one aspect of the terrible propaganda. It's so wrong, that I suspiciously wonder if it is deliberately so. Imagine your kid about to go into the ocean for the first time and you say....'stay safe from all the big sharks and poisonous jelly fish' |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2021 19:06:22 GMT -5
And they had the mRNA vaccine ready in a few days (a year ago). All the rest of the time was spent giving it to people for testing. [...] So, there's an opportunity here to understand why some people are concerned about mRNA vaccines: -- isn't it possible that they could include stimulation of other proteins unrelated to the intent of the vaccination? -- have the drug companies and those invested in what seems to have become an industrial complex centered on vaccination used the COVID crisis as a way to circumvent what might have been years or even decades of study as to potential dangers? -- is one of those potential danger's that the cellular alteration is permanent? [...] Here are some reasons I would feel okay taking the mRNA vaccine. (Though I may not need to because I got immunity the old fashioned way.) 1. Many viruses, including colds, the flu, and covid itself, are RNA viruses. So it's not like RNA is some super-new weird unnatural thing that your body isn't used to seeing. And RNA is produced and destroyed in healthy cells all day. 2. Our understanding of the DNA -> RNA -> protein path is that DNA and RNA code for one protein. It would be very strange if it produced others. 3. Part of why the vaccine approval only took a year is because so many people are sick with covid. I don't think they relaxed their requirements. I think they just got to them faster. It's easier to see if it's working when there are lots of people sick in your placebo group vs your other group that got the vaccine. This may only happen every 100 years, but if starts happening every 5 years, my guess is people are going to push for faster or immediate vaccine approvals. Or we'll develop other anti-viral treatments, from economic necessity. If you want to freak out, read about how easy it is to set up a cheap bio lab and "print" one these viruses. Then look at the stock market effects and ... oh dear. We may need to get better at fighting viruses sooner rather than later... |
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Post by laughter on Jan 23, 2021 19:31:44 GMT -5
[...] So, there's an opportunity here to understand why some people are concerned about mRNA vaccines: -- isn't it possible that they could include stimulation of other proteins unrelated to the intent of the vaccination? -- have the drug companies and those invested in what seems to have become an industrial complex centered on vaccination used the COVID crisis as a way to circumvent what might have been years or even decades of study as to potential dangers? -- is one of those potential danger's that the cellular alteration is permanent? [...] Here are some reasons I would feel okay taking the mRNA vaccine. (Though I may not need to because I got immunity the old fashioned way.) 1. Many viruses, including colds, the flu, and covid itself, are RNA viruses. So it's not like RNA is some super-new weird unnatural thing that your body isn't used to seeing. And RNA is produced and destroyed in healthy cells all day. 2. Our understanding of the DNA -> RNA -> protein path is that DNA and RNA code for one protein. It would be very strange if it produced others. 3. Part of why the vaccine approval only took a year is because so many people are sick with covid. I don't think they relaxed their requirements. I think they just got to them faster. It's easier to see if it's working when there are lots of people sick in your placebo group vs your other group that got the vaccine. This may only happen every 100 years, but if starts happening every 5 years, my guess is people are going to push for faster or immediate vaccine approvals. Or we'll develop other anti-viral treatments, from economic necessity. If you want to freak out, read about how easy it is to set up a cheap bio lab and "print" one these viruses. Then look at the stock market effects and ... oh dear. We may need to get better at fighting viruses sooner rather than later... Right, it's certainly possible that the only significant difference in the mechanism between traditional vaccines and mRNA are in the way it's manufactured, ie: that the functionality of a polio vaccine produced in a chicken egg is theoretically the exact same as an mRNA version. I don't know enough about the subject to do other than speculate, either way. But one concern might be that a vaccine can theoretically be manufactured to produce more than one protein, with the producer advertising only one of them. If this idea sounds paranoid, it's because it is, but just 'cause yer' paranoid don't mean they's aint out to git ya'!  .. but even short of the funny folksy old aphorism, you see, all I've done is note the theoretical possibility. One significant factor that lends a viral-nature to speculation from that point is the dystopian aspect of the lockdowns and other social controls. Another potentially valid concern from what (very very little) I've read is that mRNA has the potential to deploy far more complex and far more controlled cell stimulation than injecting the material copied using the old techniques. This raises the question of unintended consequences. For example, my understanding is that genetic modification of agricultural crops leads to strains that don't produce viable seeds, and that there can be inadvertent cross-pollination that interferes with traditional farming, and that Monsanto even used the law to put some farmer's out of business in the cases where the modified seeds could reproduce. It's not a direct comparison, but it is an example of how genetic technology has already resulted in an oppressive dystopian mess. These conspiratorial concerns are relevant to the issue of cooperation with people claiming to be legitimate authorities, both legal and otherwise. By contrast, worrying about the possibility of a significant viral-based bio weapon is sort of the same concern as a nuclear holocaust. IOW: ain't really nothin' new under the Sun. (just ask a t-rex skeleton)  |
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Post by andrew on Jan 23, 2021 19:58:40 GMT -5
[...] So, there's an opportunity here to understand why some people are concerned about mRNA vaccines: -- isn't it possible that they could include stimulation of other proteins unrelated to the intent of the vaccination? -- have the drug companies and those invested in what seems to have become an industrial complex centered on vaccination used the COVID crisis as a way to circumvent what might have been years or even decades of study as to potential dangers? -- is one of those potential danger's that the cellular alteration is permanent? [...] Here are some reasons I would feel okay taking the mRNA vaccine. (Though I may not need to because I got immunity the old fashioned way.) 1. Many viruses, including colds, the flu, and covid itself, are RNA viruses. So it's not like RNA is some super-new weird unnatural thing that your body isn't used to seeing. And RNA is produced and destroyed in healthy cells all day. 2. Our understanding of the DNA -> RNA -> protein path is that DNA and RNA code for one protein. It would be very strange if it produced others. 3. Part of why the vaccine approval only took a year is because so many people are sick with covid. I don't think they relaxed their requirements. I think they just got to them faster. It's easier to see if it's working when there are lots of people sick in your placebo group vs your other group that got the vaccine. This may only happen every 100 years, but if starts happening every 5 years, my guess is people are going to push for faster or immediate vaccine approvals. Or we'll develop other anti-viral treatments, from economic necessity. If you want to freak out, read about how easy it is to set up a cheap bio lab and "print" one these viruses. Then look at the stock market effects and ... oh dear. We may need to get better at fighting viruses sooner rather than later... I see a lot of people that want it, and some that don't, and I've listened a lot to both sides. My sense of the situation is that those that don't want it, just have a plain old gut instinct that it's not for them. They then often feel obliged to rationalize that gut instinct, but the rationalization just isn't really that strong, and more often that not they just look a bit wacky. I have no particular reason to doubt its safety (I mean, I do see reports of negative reactions, but that's expected), and yet my gut reaction is just it's not for me. If I had to offer something more than just 'gut instinct' as a reason why not, I would probably say 'religious reasons'. It's not wholly correct, but it's close enough. Trusting gut instinct is irrational and bordering on the mystical. To be clear, I don't experience any urge to try to talk others out of it because I recognize that my gut instinct is just...'mine'. Everyone is different. I don't feel 'pleased' when I hear others have had it (e.g my sister has had it), I'm more just like....'okay, fair enough' like if they told me they had a sandwich for lunch. |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 23, 2021 20:14:36 GMT -5
You keep dispensing ridiculous posts ... Remember: stupidity is ignorance manifested! Sorry to everyone in advance for creating drama.  Invalan, farmer is not stupid, nor ignorant. Do you see anyone else here these days telling someone else their postings are ridiculous, and if not, what might that signal to you about what you're writing? Again, you have a comprehension problem, and it bothers you that I noticed it. You have a spelling problem too. |
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.. but even short of the funny folksy old aphorism, you see, all I've done is note the theoretical possibility. One significant factor that lends a viral-nature to speculation from that point is the dystopian aspect of the lockdowns and other social controls.