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Post by laughter on Jan 22, 2021 16:32:06 GMT -5
Yeah, I see it that way for the most part as well. But I can understand people who don't see it that way, as the medical establishment isn't all bad. It's rather bananas that I feel I have to say this but they do sometimes heal people, and not everyone in it is completely consumed with the profit motive or the motive of social control. In fact it seems to me that on an individual basis, the people who work in the medical industry and the governmental entities that are increasingly involved in it's administration exhibit what I think of as a "mix of intentionality": - at least some of them (probably most) are at least partially conscious of their motivations and the conditioned influences on their opinions and actions. - at least some of them (probably not most) are almost completely on auto-pilot, with no consciousness of why they do what they do or think what they think - the details of these conditioned influences vary greatly from individual-to-individual: --- some are, to some degree, idealistic, other's are driven soley by practical considerations --- some are so greedy as for their greed to be a significant influence on their decisions, for other's this is less of an influence --- there are varying degrees of competence, dedication and various facets of alignment between their persons and their positions. And this is a simplified, abridged list of factors and facets relevant to this idea: a "mix of intentionality", which isn't specific to this group of people. It's an abstraction that, like any other abstraction, can never really completely describe real life, and it has the potential to reflect that limitation in terms of expressing an arbitrary level of complexity and complication. So, while it might be tempting to take a jaundiced view of the medical complex based on results, this might miss the nuance of the people involved with it. Perhaps, like any set of interlocking institutions, the medical industry is going through a cycle where it is expressing that facet of LOA where it has become what it was designed to fight against, which would suggest that some sort of collapse and reform is inevitable. Oh, perhaps I should clarify that I think the huge majority of doctors and nurses are great. I think it's the bureaucracy that's the issue, the 'behind the scenes' shenanigans. Actually I think this is a common notion that many doctors and nurses think this way as well, and this seems to me to lead to an attitude of entitlement and superiority that is a major negative influence on the system. Perhaps it's even true to some extent, but here again, on a individual-to-individual basis it's all a matter of degree. I'm sure there are some idealistic and hard working administrators, as well. They're all ultimately cogs in a machine. |
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Post by zendancer on Jan 22, 2021 17:43:23 GMT -5
Some folks might be interested in this. I got the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine this morning, and the side effect so far has been the equivalent of drinking two glasses of wine! It might get worse, but so far all it did was end my work day and leave me moving around in a kind of loopy brain fog.
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Post by andrew on Jan 22, 2021 17:49:52 GMT -5
From my causal following of the issue I seem to remember that Switzerland started, then stopped, and then re-started use of HCQ with telling results, for instance. Honestly, given the list of drug side-effects they have to enumerate in those incessant commercials is enough for me to be skeptical of anything that comes out of the drug companies these days ..  .. especially when they're suddenly bad-mouthing a drug that's been around for decades and costs almost nothing to produce when the newer alternatives are potentially very lucrative. And I'm not questioning the science or the potential greater efficacy of the newer drugs, just the inconsistencies in the narrative surrounding HCQ. why should I care? I don't have the virus, and I'm hoping to avoid it for the next few months.. but take it as a preventative if you believe in the science.. I don'tThat's a little funny to me, because I see a lot of folks saying that about the vaccines Aside from any spiritual views I might have about them, my concern with the vaccines is more along the lines that I could imagine a scenario when new strains come along, new coronaviruses, and folks are lining up for vaccines every couple of months. I don't think it's necessarily my 'spirituality' that sees that as a problematic scenario (and of course new strains and viruses give governments reason to lockdown again while the new and improved vaccines are being prepared) |
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Post by andrew on Jan 22, 2021 17:52:05 GMT -5
Some folks might be interested in this. I got the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine this morning, and the side effect so far has been the equivalent of drinking two glasses of wine! It might get worse, but so far all it did was end my work day and leave me moving around in a kind of brain fog. seems quite common I think, reckon it will probably pass by tomorrow. |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 22, 2021 18:18:08 GMT -5
There's your politicization and manipulation of covid, right there. And I'm seriously not interested in debating the underlying merits or debating the details of covid on this thread. You can deflect and deny if you want, but the facts are the facts, and we all just watched the whole thing play out in sickening detail over the past year. And in related news Dr. Fauci could barely contain his relief and excitement yesterday about the return of truth and science to the White House. No more bleach, light disinfectant, or malaria drug nonsense from the podium. Or the coddling of a madman who admitted to Bob Woodward how serious he knew it was (while downplaying it in public). You keep dispensing ridiculous posts ... Remember: stupidity is ignorance manifested! |
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Post by andrew on Jan 22, 2021 18:25:37 GMT -5
That's a little funny to me, because I see a lot of folks saying that about the vaccines Aside from any spiritual views I might have about them, my concern with the vaccines is more along the lines that I could imagine a scenario when new strains come along, new coronaviruses, and folks are lining up for vaccines every couple of months. I don't think it's necessarily my 'spirituality' that sees that as a problematic scenario (and of course new strains and viruses give governments reason to lockdown again while the new and improved vaccines are being prepared) I've had a lot of vaccines over the years, with no issues, and I assume they work as advertised since I didn't catch whatever they were preventing. and I'm not sure how you view spirituality Sure. I don't mean to imply that they don't work as advertised, as I said, my concern is about an ongoing procession of vaccines as a response to new mutations and new viruses (and while waiting for development, it's lockdown again). As I said, my spiritual views aren't relevant to my comment there, but probably partly because of LOA leanings, I'm more about 'proactivity' than 'prevention', but that's just me. I certainly don't expect others to have my spiritual views...even other spiritual people! |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 22, 2021 18:35:11 GMT -5
Spiritual question: Is it creatively better to affirm one's own health and thank their immune system for its loving support? Or is it creatively better to anxiously demand that others look after their health for them? And be angry with them when they don't? Anyone? It's like you're baiting me ... (I'm sure this wasn't on your mind  ). No matter who's overseeing your health, no matter their competency, your health is only the reflections of your thoughts, emotions, limiting beliefs. Two fold: - your thoughts and emotions about your own health
- your general emotional state: fear, anger, hate are detrimental to your well-being, including your health
When you're ill, that is always a symbolic message that your thoughts are wrong. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 22, 2021 18:45:06 GMT -5
Spiritual question: Is it creatively better to affirm one's own health and thank their immune system for its loving support? Or is it creatively better to anxiously demand that others look after their health for them? And be angry with them when they don't? Anyone? It's like you're baiting me ... (I'm sure this wasn't on your mind ). No matter who's overseeing your health, no matter their competency, your health is only the reflections of your thoughts, emotions, limiting beliefs. Two fold: - your thoughts and emotions about your own health
- your general emotional state: fear, anger, hate are detrimental to your well-being, including your health
When you're ill, that is always a symbolic message that your thoughts are wrong. haha baiting you...specifically...was not deliberate. Yeah I can certainly relate to your beliefs. For me it's a bit more complex than that, largely because I believe in a co-creation or a collective creation. But I certainly think yours is a very useful view to take. And I think that at a society level, we would benefit from moving more in the direction of that view right now. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 22, 2021 20:04:06 GMT -5
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Post by inavalan on Jan 22, 2021 20:16:22 GMT -5
That's likely another lie. How will they bin the deaths this year? What about a smoker who dies and tests positive for covid? |
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Post by andrew on Jan 22, 2021 20:21:25 GMT -5
That's likely another lie. How will they bin the deaths this year? What about a smoker who dies and tests positive for covid? well yes good point, I would guess there will be have been considerably less smoker deaths in 2020! But I was sort of taking the stats at face value, and wondering why folks aren't outraged year after year by the number of deaths. I think it has to be the 'contagion' factor, which would be a fear of other people, mixed with an anger that they don't behave in certain ways. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 22, 2021 20:24:46 GMT -5
They've known cigs kill you since the 50's and starting telling people in the 60's so we've lived with this knowledge our whole lives. Hard to compare that to something we knew almost nothing about a year ago. I see. Hmmm. So pretend people got on with life as per normal, and 1 million Americans died each year for the next 50 years. Do you think that once people 'know' that 1 million each year would die, that they'd be okay with it because they've got the knowledge of that? |
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Post by andrew on Jan 22, 2021 20:28:27 GMT -5
I see. Hmmm. So pretend people got on with life as per normal, and 1 million Americans died each year for the next 50 years. Do you think that once people 'know' that 1 million each year would die, that they'd be okay with it because they've got the knowledge of that? I think the people who smoke know the risks Ah, then sounds like the 'self-inflicted' factor makes a difference to the level of outrage/hysteria (i.e much less outraged/hysterical). |
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Post by andrew on Jan 22, 2021 20:39:56 GMT -5
Ah, then sounds like the 'self-inflicted' factor makes a difference to the level of outrage/hysteria (i.e much less outraged/hysterical). I haven't seen much outrage/hysteria except on the internet Yes, I understand you there, but if your television/radio news is anything like ours, then covid is 'the' topic. Here in the UK, people have been encouraged by government to report their neighbours, and challenge those that don't wear masks, so social tensions have been high. Again, might be different where you are, and I don't wish those social tensions on you at all. Point is just that the 500000 smoker deaths surely don't get the same emotional interest in the US each year, and that's interesting. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 22, 2021 20:47:49 GMT -5
I'm surmising that the key...the epicentre...of all the emotion, is the idea that 'I can cause you to be ill' and 'you can cause me to be ill'.
And society has really grabbed hold of that idea and ran with it (facilitated massively by the media).
So people are only really bothered by number of deaths to the extent that it amplifies that belief. The belief itself is an unpleasant belief, and I imagine that people sincerely wish to be free from that belief, so maybe just HAVING that belief adds layers to the emotion too.
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.. especially when they're suddenly bad-mouthing a drug that's been around for decades and costs almost nothing to produce when the newer alternatives are potentially very lucrative. And I'm not questioning the science or the potential greater efficacy of the newer drugs, just the inconsistencies in the narrative surrounding HCQ.
).