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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 1, 2020 22:42:26 GMT -5
It has been reported Thursday night about 9:00 PM that President Trump and his wife have started a quarantine process because his closest advisor Hope Hicks has tested positive for COVID-19, and she already has symptoms.
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Post by inavalan on Oct 1, 2020 22:56:09 GMT -5
Reported about 9:00 PM Thursday night, COVID-19 just got serious for President Trump. Aren't you a small person for enjoying another's bad luck? So much hysterical hate! Shame on you! |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 1, 2020 23:02:35 GMT -5
inavalan, I just reported news (I assumed most everybody who reads it will already know, but if not, easily googled). You read into it something I didn't say. I am going to delete and rewrite the post. You can leave your post, that is, not delete it, if you think there needs to be a record of what I wrote. As you certainly must have construed, Reefs has asked us to continue our ~discussion~ privately, I had no intention of violating that. I firmly believe in karma, and the Golden Rule, so would not wish ill of anyone.
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Post by Peter on Oct 2, 2020 3:13:53 GMT -5
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Post by Reefs on Oct 2, 2020 6:31:38 GMT -5
I wasn't really sure what you were referring to. Laughter seems to be assuming that you were referring to the 'fine people hoax' which has been thoroughly debunked by now. So just in case and for the sake of WIBIGO, I posted that link to an official fact checker website. Tricky stuff, indeed. |
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Post by Reefs on Oct 2, 2020 7:03:15 GMT -5
Reefs has asked us to continue our ~discussion~ privately... All, That's correct. For the sake of clarity and transparency, I'll repost my original message: As I've already said here here and here, I don't mind if you want to talk about politics on a meta level or using current political events as an example to illustrate your point in a spiritual discussion. What I do mind though is purely political discussions of current events based on whatever the media decides we should discuss on a given day because I see this going counter the original purpose and intent of this forum. Keep in mind this is primarily a non-duality forum, so allowing political discussions on a meta level is already a major concession, IMO. I just deleted SDP's thread about President Trump having tested positive and going into quarantine. We don't need a news ticker on this forum. That's where I definitely draw the line. I consider that as spam and will treat it accordingly. I did that with Krishnaraja already, who was just posting news clip after news clip earlier this year. So if you want to join our private discussion, let me know, I'll put you on that list. If you are already on that list and have no interest in such a discussion, let me know, I'll take you off that list. I'll keep this thread open in case someone actually wants to talk about politics on a meta level or the spiritual side of politics. So, enjoy your other discussions and stay focused, R |
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Post by laughter on Oct 2, 2020 16:15:15 GMT -5
I wasn't really sure what you were referring to. Laughter seems to be assuming that you were referring to the 'fine people hoax' which has been thoroughly debunked by now. So just in case and for the sake of WIBIGO, I posted that link to an official fact checker website. Tricky stuff, indeed. Right, because the context was "nazi's", so I associated it with Charlottesville. In terms of what he was actually saying, my thoughts are this: the Confederacy's cause was historically unjust, but they are the only American's to have ever lost a war on their own ground, so the issue of the statues of Lee et al wasn't one I found to be all that simple. I can understand the strong feelings on both sides, but, without a cultural stake, I didn't take one. Ken Burns did a widely watched and emotionally engaging piece on the Civil War back in the early 90's, and by today's standards it would be cancelled. Back then it was considered a rather cathartic exploration relevant to how America stitched itself back together after the most brutal conflict we ever fought. |
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Post by laughter on Oct 2, 2020 16:31:10 GMT -5
There's a clear spiritual solution to political strife based on past injustice that should be rather painfully obvious.  Half my anscestor's fled the potato famine, and a quarter were Puritans, so for me to pick up a historical animosity would be to literally have to tear myself apart.  Go back far enough in European history, and everyone indigenous to there is the same way. |
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Post by esponja on Oct 2, 2020 18:23:52 GMT -5
I have stated previously, I voted for Trump in 2016. Most of that was on the basis of anybody but Hillary. Also a major factor was the choosing of Supreme Court Justices. I have never regretted that decision, made then. But that was then, this is now. + #1: Strong defense of Israel, which includes moving the embassy to Jerusalem. + #2: Choosing two conservative Supreme Court Justices, plus what will be a 3rd. minus: The China trade negotiations. I don't think he knows enough about international trade to know what he's doing (or what he did). minus: Coronavirus. We should have had central control on decisions made, not control by 50 (states). Trump should have backed the scientific experts, not cut the feet out under them. Dr. Brix has just about had enough of his nonsense. + #3: The economy. He has led the charge on the economy. But this may be as much a psychological response as much as know-how. He did bring some jobs back. He seems not to understand there is a difference between the economy and the stock market. minus: He is obviously a bigot, but he may not be aware this is the case. + #4: Choosing numerous conservative federal judges, of course with Senate help. minus: He thinks he is smarter than most anybody, always the smartest one in the room. "I know more than the generals". (nonsense). I know more than the doctors. (nonsense). He should know his own limitations and recognize when someone knows more about a subject than he. He lives by his second gut-brain, his instincts. He is crashing and burning by doing so. minus: No healthcare plan to replace ACA. McCain saved ACA. With a 6-3 court ACA will probably come down. If nothing is there to replace it, colossal mess. We need a single payer system to save healthcare. Rich people pay their fair share (in a National health plan), but ATST they should be able to pay for whatever healthcare they wish, IOW, pay extra for themselves. minus: He seems to think US money is his money. Example, he dismantled the committee that had a watch on Internation al virus outbreak, merely to save money. This was a colossal error. We were caught flatfooted with Coronavirus. minus: He lies every day. Most of this is deliberate, he thinks if he says it enough, people will believe what he says. minus: He thrives on causing chaos. minus: His posturing on being a law and order candidate. I'm having trouble coming up with a + #5, probably missing something obvious. OK, + #5: Strong military support. (If I think of a + #6, I'll edit). Okay, thanks. I wrote a rather long replay, but I am sensing this is one of those perpetual circular discussions that don't really go anywhere. But before I follow Zeniac's good example and move on to something non-dual, just let me say something about your last three negatives. Scott Adams, one of the few people who predicted a Trump presidency pretty early on, wrote a book, Win Bigly, where he looked at the 2016 election thru the filter of a hypnotist and his conclusion was that DJT's persuasion techniques are on par with the medias persuasion techniques (if not better). So what you would consider as repetitive lies, chaos, posturing or bigotry thru a conventional filter, are actually high-powered tools in the battle for our minds and attention thru the persuasion filter. If you are interested, read the book. I highly recommend it to people who just can't make sense of what's happening here. It will explain in detail why he says what he says the way he says it and why he does what he does the way he does it. He's not a fool and he isn't lost either. In fact, he does understand LOA and he's been beating the media at their own game for years now. So maybe you can add that as your + #6. Gosh, chiming in here because I just read bits here and there and wanted to say, ‘I said this EXACT thing to my hubby last night’. People are easily programmed and he plays the game exceptionally well. Am going to grab this book! |
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Post by esponja on Oct 2, 2020 19:16:31 GMT -5
My experience is that you can't persuade a strong pro-Trumper that the Dems are anything else but evil, and equally, anti-Trumpers aren't often mildly anti-Trump, they are extremely anti-Trump (I don't think Laffy is strong pro-Trump from what I see). On social media at least, I don't see many strong pro-Dems out there, and my opinion is that it's hard to see anything particularly good about Biden, except that...for the anti-Trumpers....he isn't Trump. I responded to Marianne Williamson last week on twitter. I asked her the question...for all Trump's apparent flaws, WHY Biden? (And I also told her that people would have more readily voted for her, Yang, Gabbard...or any other politician that hasn't built a long term career out of it...i.e that people are sick of career politicians). She slightly surprisingly replied to me that people should vote for Biden because Trump is absolutely destroying democracy. Her response to me then attracted hundreds of replies...both from disillusioned Dems (that don't want Trump, but find it hard to vote Biden), and of course...many Trump supporters also replied, basically pointing out that the DNC were terribly corrupt and undemocratic. As a Brit, with far less understanding of American politics than you guys, it was quite interesting to watch and learn a bit. I have no strong sense at all of who I would prefer, and I don't think it's just because I am a Brit. Somehow...I think there are bigger things going on. I was the same on Brexit....I had no strong sense of preference at all and felt there were bigger things going on, though I did strongly support the left candidate in the UK election last year (he was thoroughly beaten). Hope you're all well and thriving in these unusual times. Marianne is asleep. I realised recently. |
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Post by esponja on Oct 2, 2020 19:21:45 GMT -5
How could someone willingly vote for Donald Trump in 2020? That's so crazy it defies explanation. It's cult like. To me, someone posting this kind of stuff is just looking for emotional support. I mean, I can’t even see a hint of rational argument here. What is the point of this? And why do some people, on a non-duality forum (!), need to always wear their political beliefs on their sleeves? You see, when we look at another and first see a representative of an ideology instead of a fellow human being, that’s playing right into the divide and conquer game. And then we all lose, because we are all in this together. I am honestly surprised at the general tone and low level of practical self-awareness that I am encountering in this thread as compared to the usually rather high level of spiritual awareness in most other threads. So I can only conclude that spiritual awareness and practical self-awareness don’t necessarily go hand in hand, i.e. people can get a good grasp of how the universe works and still don’t have the slightest clue how their own life works. Quite fascinating. 100% |
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Post by esponja on Oct 2, 2020 20:05:20 GMT -5
I like your way of putting that about "attention". I always think about "consciousness" or "awareness" and these words are commonly discussed on this forum. I haven't paid as much ... attention ... to "attention". Like you said we want to be careful where we put it. But another thing... what the heck is it? It's like a spotlight or direction of consciousness, seemingly affected by will. Try observing yourself thru-out the day if you can see a connection between what you focus upon and your mood during the day, like a day with 24/7 news watching vs. a day with no news at all. And when you see a connection there, try observing if you can see a connection between your mood and how your day goes, what conversations you have, what people and situations you run into. I tell you a personal story. Earlier this month, the riots grabbed my attention. I started looking into it a bit more, researching it. Well, after more than a week of consuming plenty of video footage showing people getting hurt in numerous ways, on a Sunday, I went to the pool with my family as usual and hurt my left hand in the pool. Really just a scratch, it didn't even hurt at the time, I only noticed later. Nevertheless, it seemed odd. But I put some band aid on it and forgot about it. The next day, in Monday morning, still half asleep, I grabbed a fork from the cupboard and hurt my right hand on a sharp piece of metal. Really just a scratch again, but right under the fingernail, so this time it really hurt and it also took a while to stop the bleeding. But it's been a busy month and I had no time again to give it much thought. Put on some band aid again and moved on. The next day, I dropped something but managed to catch it in mid air but twisted my thumb really badly in the process. And that really, really, really hurt. Picking up things, putting on clothes, even typing suddenly became a problem. And now finally I thought to myself, "I think I'm seeing a pattern here and it's definitely not the direction I wanna go". And then it dawned on me, that I had been watching people getting physically hurt for weeks, day after day. So I stopped doing that because that's not the road I wanted to end up. Life is full of such little, seemingly inconsequential, seemingly unrelated things and events, but which, in total, largely determine the direction our lives go, because it's adding up. So it's worth keeping your eye on the emotional scale when you watch the news, when you interact with others, even what conversations you have here on the forum. The rule of thumb is, whatever is manifesting in your experience will give you clues about how you are doing yourself. Now, A-H would call that post-manifestational awareness, i.e. the damage is done and only then you realize something is off; as opposed to pre-manifestational awareness, i.e. no harm done yet, but you feel significantly uneasy which makes you realize something is off. I've noticed something similar with natural disasters, people who have to live with tropical cyclones. Some leave long before disaster strikes, some only leave when disaster is about to hit during a mass evacuation and some just get hit seemingly out of the blue. It would be interesting to reconstruct the causal chain of decisions that led to these different experiences, the forks in the road that some took and others missed. Pre-manifestational awareness is always a good thing if you want to live an easy and comfortable life. But that seems to be rare. Most people only seem to wake up and become aware of their own creations under extreme contrast and hardship, when the wind is already blowing away their roof or when their neighborhood is already in flames. The problem with post-manifestational awareness is that in such a case your options are usually very limited. A-H always tell this joke about someone jumping out of an airplane, suddenly realizing that he doesn't have a parachute and now wanting to know what he should do. To which they always reply, hang on, it will be over soon. So, long story short, when disaster strikes, it's a bit late to act. Very often you can't do anything other than just to ride it out and hope for the best. But extreme contrast tends to have the effect of waking people up who have been asleep at the wheel, shaking them out of their daydreams and bringing them back into the NOW. And this can be a very memorable experience. I've heard stories about people who have lost everything in a hurricane, a fire or an earthquake and they said it was the best thing that had ever happened to them because it made them reevaluate their lives and realize what's really important. So as usual, it's all a matter of perspective and personal preferences. Some people actually seem to almost seek hardship, some just like to live on the edge of adventure. If there's a fire or an explosion somewhere, most people will run away, but oddly, there's always someone who will run right toward it. Fascinating. So my advice to all of you guys who are mesmerized by the news and the current political spectacle of the century - be careful! Try to become aware of what it does to you and to your lives. You don't need to know everything or even have an opinion on everything. And you don't have to fight other people's battles either. There is a celebrity chef here in Oz who is posting a lot on conspiracy stuff and broke his arm or something similar recently. Did make me wonder! |
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Post by esponja on Oct 3, 2020 1:19:17 GMT -5
Wow. Just finished watching the "debate" between the angriest, nastiest, rudest crazy man you can think of and Joe Biden. What an embarrassment for American democracy. Watched it live. Totally agree. DJT calling JB a ‘clown’ and telling him to ‘shut up’ on live TV was definitely a new low. And this barrage of lies about HB, I don't know what to say. I hope the fact checkers already got to work. It's going to rain pinocchios on DJT for that alone. Luckily JB had all the facts together. And CW constantly trying to debate JB instead of just moderating made it seem as if JB had to debate both DJT and CW. Very unfair. I hope there won't be another debate. Interesting because my perception was different. CW was very bias in his moderating and did a terrible job. I actually felt sorry at times for Trump. The whole thing was an embarrasment. Having spent months looking at all sides of the narrative, on and away from mainstream, I honestly despair, I see a far right and an intolerant far left, I trust that the universe indeed has a plan and knows what she’s doing. It is a massive call for people to look at their unconscious programmes though. Trump is a symptom and a reflection of the collective and to see such hatred against him shows me that we are a long way off on our journey to awakening. On one level, I think all of this can be a great time of awakening where old systems can collapse and make way for the New Earth. The more divide and hate I see, the more I feel we are indeed being called to raise our vibration and look within. I feel this so powerfully at the moment. Abe Hicks and other teachers are really showing us how to make change and it starts with each individual... the ripple effect. |
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Post by Reefs on Oct 3, 2020 4:07:01 GMT -5
Watched it live. Totally agree. DJT calling JB a ‘clown’ and telling him to ‘shut up’ on live TV was definitely a new low. And this barrage of lies about HB, I don't know what to say. I hope the fact checkers already got to work. It's going to rain pinocchios on DJT for that alone. Luckily JB had all the facts together. And CW constantly trying to debate JB instead of just moderating made it seem as if JB had to debate both DJT and CW. Very unfair. I hope there won't be another debate. Interesting because my perception was different. CW was very bias in his moderating and did a terrible job. I actually felt sorry at times for Trump. The whole thing was an embarrasment. Having spent months looking at all sides of the narrative, on and away from mainstream, I honestly despair, I see a far right and an intolerant far left, I trust that the universe indeed has a plan and knows what she’s doing. It is a massive call for people to look at their unconscious programmes though. Trump is a symptom and a reflection of the collective and to see such hatred against him shows me that we are a long way off on our journey to awakening. On one level, I think all of this can be a great time of awakening where old systems can collapse and make way for the New Earth. The more divide and hate I see, the more I feel we are indeed being called to raise our vibration and look within. I feel this so powerfully at the moment. Abe Hicks and other teachers are really showing us how to make change and it starts with each individual... the ripple effect. That was 100% sarcasm what I wrote there.  What happened there on (inter)national TV that night was a pretty good representation of what has happened on this forum in the past. This seemed all too familiar, the double-binds ("will you declare here and now that you once and for all will stop beating your wife?"), the constant talking past each other, the tag-teaming, the giraffes, the he-said-she-said... That's why I had a totally different view on what happened there compared to Sifty. I just tried to express it in a less confrontational way, so I chose sarcasm. I'm surprised no one really noticed. Good time to finally clear that up, haha. Well, you probably know the saying, people will get the rulers they deserve. And from a LOA perspective, that makes sense. And you know what Abe say, those people (politicians) don't really matter. They just want you to think that they matter (out of pure self interest). And your (physical) votes don't really matter either. What really matters is your individual vibrational votes that you are sending out every day, when you see violence in the streets and don't like it and wish for it to stop, when you feel embarrassed about a ridiculously biased moderator in a presidential debate and wish for some true fair play, when political candidates get caught in their own lies again and again and you envision a more honest political culture, when you see one and the same fake story promoted on all channels all day everyday and you are longing for more diversity and objectivity, and so on... And that's actually been happening for decades and been gaining enormous momentum in the past few years. So what some see as chaotic times right now, where it's hard to see any direction, I see it as a time where an old system that has been more and more out of sync with the collective is slowly replaced by a new system that is more in sync with the collective. So we are in the twilight zone right now, in the middle of the tunnel. In some places, you can see already the light, in some other places there's still no light in sight. But the overall change of direction, globally, on the non-physical level, I think is a done deal.It's done. It just has to break thru into the physical. And that's where the collective path of least resistance comes into play. In some places around the world it's easier and the transition smoother, in some places it's more difficult and a much rougher ride. But no matter what the collective chooses, you as the individual always have your say in what's manifesting for you individually. The way it goes for the collective doesn't mean that's the way it goes for you as an individual. There are always individual people who thrive in times the collective would call bad times, and there are always individual people who suffer in times the collective would call good times. You see, you called Williamson asleep, which probably wouldn't be all too hard to prove, but regardless, we can't deny the fact that she throws out a lot of totally out of the box ideas, and that's actually really good in helping in this transition, no matter if she actually realizes her role or not. I think what would make the biggest difference is if people would just realize that everyone is first and foremost selfishly oriented (you, your child, your spouse, your parents, your friends, your colleagues - just everyone). And then politics and the media wouldn't play such a dominant role in our lives. We would also have a very different take on cheating and lying politicians, other people in general. As Abe always say, 100% of politics is 100% out of the vortex 100% of the time. I think they are exaggerating a bit, but seems true enough. Another thing that would make a big difference is if people would just reject being put into little thought boxes like left, right or center. And instead would just go back to their own individual core values, instead of choosing from two or three pre-arranged packages of values presented by someone else. Because very often I see people going against their own core values just because they don't allow themselves to agree with someone or accept an offer or even help from someone who has been put in the 'right' box while they consider themselves to be in the 'left' box, even though what the 'right' box person suggests would perfectly agree with the core values of the 'left' box person, if there wouldn't be any such boxes. They both would benefit, but they deny themselves that benefit because their thought boxes don't allow it. Another common situation is that people are getting along with each other quite well without ever considering their thought boxes, but then suddenly they talk about politics and realize that they actually belong to opposite thought boxes and suddenly they start arguing and become bitter enemies. That's how silly this is at times. That's why, if someone would ask me about my political beliefs, I'd just say I'm pro alignment, pro thriving and pro WIBIGO. And that can potentially be found with anyone, anytime, anywhere. |
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Post by Reefs on Oct 3, 2020 4:23:16 GMT -5
Okay, thanks. I wrote a rather long replay, but I am sensing this is one of those perpetual circular discussions that don't really go anywhere. But before I follow Zeniac's good example and move on to something non-dual, just let me say something about your last three negatives. Scott Adams, one of the few people who predicted a Trump presidency pretty early on, wrote a book, Win Bigly, where he looked at the 2016 election thru the filter of a hypnotist and his conclusion was that DJT's persuasion techniques are on par with the medias persuasion techniques (if not better). So what you would consider as repetitive lies, chaos, posturing or bigotry thru a conventional filter, are actually high-powered tools in the battle for our minds and attention thru the persuasion filter. If you are interested, read the book. I highly recommend it to people who just can't make sense of what's happening here. It will explain in detail why he says what he says the way he says it and why he does what he does the way he does it. He's not a fool and he isn't lost either. In fact, he does understand LOA and he's been beating the media at their own game for years now. So maybe you can add that as your + #6. Gosh, chiming in here because I just read bits here and there and wanted to say, ‘I said this EXACT thing to my hubby last night’. People are easily programmed and he plays the game exceptionally well. Am going to grab this book! Yes, good book. It shows that he's not the bumbling idiot the way the media would like to present him to us. In fact, some of his opponents have realized that a long time ago, like Michael Moore who just yesterday admitted that he may have outfoxed everyone. Nothing they threw at him ever seemed to stick. One of the biggest mistakes in war is to underestimate your enemy. In fact, one of the most famous stratagems in the art of war is to pretend to be weak when you are actually strong, to pretend that you are losing when your are actually winning. And as Sunzi teaches in The Art of War, deception should be the first weapon of choice. Because usually a war is won or lost long before the first shot has been fired (which is what Abe teach, too). So, I tend to agree with Moore here. The actual state of affairs is very different from how it is presented to us via the media, very likely the exact opposite. We'll see soon enough. |
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Go back far enough in European history, and everyone indigenous to there is the same way.
