Question for the SR

[Deleted]

There are times when life is viewing a epic unfolding from a safe distance. Then there are times, like when Hurricane Dorian came menacing, that this epic grabs me by the balls and pulls me in. There was no way to view it from a safe distance. Surrender then was the only avenue to peace. Is this what Niz meant when he said "seeing that I am no-thing is wisdom, seeing that I am everything is love; between these two my life moves." 

[zendancer]

Oct 8, 2019 10:10:13 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

There are times when life is viewing a epic unfolding from a safe distance. Then there are times, like when Hurricane Dorian came menacing, that this epic grabs me by the balls and pulls me in. There was no way to view it from a safe distance. Surrender then was the only avenue to peace. Is this what Niz meant when he said "seeing that I am no-thing is wisdom, seeing that I am everything is love; between these two my life moves." 

I'm an ordinary peep, but I'm curious about what you're describing. Do you live in what was at one time the path of Dorian? Was there a threat to you and your family? If you were threatened, why wouldn't you respond in whatever way seemed most appropriate? My suggestion would be to forget Niz and other sages, and just deal with whatever arises. You're a meditator, so does the equanimity attained from zazen carry over into ordinary life?

[satchitananda]

Oct 8, 2019 10:10:13 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

There are times when life is viewing a epic unfolding from a safe distance. Then there are times, like when Hurricane Dorian came menacing, that this epic grabs me by the balls and pulls me in. There was no way to view it from a safe distance. Surrender then was the only avenue to peace. Is this what Niz meant when he said "seeing that I am no-thing is wisdom, seeing that I am everything is love; between these two my life moves." 

He is saying that there is both unity within diversity and diversity within unity. In the realized state it is sahaja (or spontaneous flow) between unchanging and changing but with no real difference between them. The meaning of wisdom is the springing forth of spontaneous right action from silence. In the perception of phenomena the divine pervades all experience as well as being absolute silence. The entire cycle of movement is contained in the first word of Rig Veda which is AGNI. If you verbalise the word, A to G (aaaaaaaag) is goes from infinity to a point of singularity. Then from N to I (nnnneeeeee) is from point to infinity.

[Deleted]

Oct 8, 2019 10:25:19 GMT -5 zendancer said:

Oct 8, 2019 10:10:13 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

There are times when life is viewing a epic unfolding from a safe distance. Then there are times, like when Hurricane Dorian came menacing, that this epic grabs me by the balls and pulls me in. There was no way to view it from a safe distance. Surrender then was the only avenue to peace. Is this what Niz meant when he said "seeing that I am no-thing is wisdom, seeing that I am everything is love; between these two my life moves." 

I'm an ordinary peep, but I'm curious about what you're describing. Do you live in what was at one time the path of Dorian? Was there a threat to you and your family? If you were threatened, why wouldn't you respond in whatever way seemed most appropriate? My suggestion would be to forget Niz and other sages, and just deal with whatever arises. You're a meditator, so does the equanimity attained from zazen carry over into ordinary life?

We're in Central Florida. I'm a veteran of eight hurricanes. I've been in houses where ceilings have collapsed. Seen water covering the parking meters outside my front door in Miami Beach when I lived there. I stayed on the beach for Irma.  Irma was the first one that caught my attention. The models kept changing from a hit on the east coast of Florida to a hit on the west coast. We're on the east side. We decided to evacuate for Irma, but by then there were no hotels in five states around Florida, almost everyone in Florida was leaving. Plus driving was a nightmare. I know folks who ran out of gas running from Irma. It was insane just trying to get gas. I have four parrots and two dogs. My vehicle is a traveling zoo. Hunkering down for Irma was wild. Just in my area, we had twenty one tornados. My wife's cell phone kept screeching with alarms for tornados and flooding. We were lucky, relatively unscathed, but out of power for three days. The wife, me and the dogs were fine, but one of the birds started to deteriorate. It was hard to watch. No power anywhere. No phone service. We managed to get a hotel room in Orlando. But just then, the power came on. We kept that bird alive by puttiing him in air in our car.

Dorian was different. I moved inland to a new community with underground power lines, a concrete block house ten miles from the ocean. I thought I was better prepared. The area I live in now has never lost power during a hurricane. When Dorian was at 140 miles an hour headed to make landfall nearby, I was cool. I had shutters up, a new roof, concrete block, plenty of supplies. We were ready. Then I get up the next day, it had 185 mph winds and 220 mph gusts, overnight. I tell my wife, we're getting out of here. She asks when we should leave. I said "right now." Couldn't afford to be out of gas with my suv/zoo.We were lucky in that Dorian was not projected to hit the west coast of Florida. We drove to my daughter's house in Tampa. Dorian just missed us. But this is the third major hurricane, including Mathew that has threatened us. This is three major hurricanes in five years. It's the new normal. The actual hurricanes aren't bad. It's the lead up to them. You can taste the tension and fear around you. It's pretty crazy.

[laughter]

Oct 8, 2019 10:10:13 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

There are times when life is viewing a epic unfolding from a safe distance. Then there are times, like when Hurricane Dorian came menacing, that this epic grabs me by the balls and pulls me in. There was no way to view it from a safe distance. Surrender then was the only avenue to peace. Is this what Niz meant when he said "seeing that I am no-thing is wisdom, seeing that I am everything is love; between these two my life moves." 

No superpeep here neither, but you already know what Niz means. By love, he meant this, and by wisdom, he meant neti-neti. Science, for example, is neti-neti directed outward, toward the material world, in an objective sense. There's also, of course, the possibility of turning attention inward. Read the full text of the quote to see he's answering a question about denying the subject/object split. Wisdom is knowing what you're not: refraining from identification with the false. Love is knowing what you are. Life flowing between the two is mushin + relationships.

[Deleted]

I had an interesting session with my therapist after Dorian. She's also well versed in ND with a Zen background. The good kind of Zen, not the folks that meditate facing the wrong way. I told her with all the zazen and studying I do, I expected equanimity when Dorian hit 185 mph heading for me, but my body let me down. She started laughing. She said "you were expecting an easy ride ticket from your zazen." She's right. There isn't one.

[laughter]

Oct 8, 2019 13:04:12 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

I had an interesting session with my therapist after Dorian. She's also well versed in ND with a Zen background. The good kind of Zen, not the folks that meditate facing the wrong way. I told her with all the zazen and studying I do, I expected equanimity when Dorian hit 185 mph heading for me, but my body let me down. She started laughing. She said "you were expecting an easy ride ticket from your zazen." She's right. There isn't one.

[zendancer]

Oct 8, 2019 11:16:42 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

Oct 8, 2019 10:25:19 GMT -5 zendancer said:

I'm an ordinary peep, but I'm curious about what you're describing. Do you live in what was at one time the path of Dorian? Was there a threat to you and your family? If you were threatened, why wouldn't you respond in whatever way seemed most appropriate? My suggestion would be to forget Niz and other sages, and just deal with whatever arises. You're a meditator, so does the equanimity attained from zazen carry over into ordinary life?

We're in Central Florida. I'm a veteran of eight hurricanes. I've been in houses where ceilings have collapsed. Seen water covering the parking meters outside my front door in Miami Beach when I lived there. I stayed on the beach for Irma.  Irma was the first one that caught my attention. The models kept changing from a hit on the east coast of Florida to a hit on the west coast. We're on the east side. We decided to evacuate for Irma, but by then there were no hotels in five states around Florida, almost everyone in Florida was leaving. Plus driving was a nightmare. I know folks who ran out of gas running from Irma. It was insane just trying to get gas. I have four parrots and two dogs. My vehicle is a traveling zoo. Hunkering down for Irma was wild. Just in my area, we had twenty one tornados. My wife's cell phone kept screeching with alarms for tornados and flooding. We were lucky, relatively unscathed, but out of power for three days. The wife, me and the dogs were fine, but one of the birds started to deteriorate. It was hard to watch. No power anywhere. No phone service. We managed to get a hotel room in Orlando. But just then, the power came on. We kept that bird alive by puttiing him in air in our car.

Dorian was different. I moved inland to a new community with underground power lines, a concrete block house ten miles from the ocean. I thought I was better prepared. The area I live in now has never lost power during a hurricane. When Dorian was at 140 miles an hour headed to make landfall nearby, I was cool. I had shutters up, a new roof, concrete block, plenty of supplies. We were ready. Then I get up the next day, it had 185 mph winds and 220 mph gusts, overnight. I tell my wife, we're getting out of here. She asks when we should leave. I said "right now." Couldn't afford to be out of gas with my suv/zoo.We were lucky in that Dorian was not projected to hit the west coast of Florida. We drove to my daughter's house in Tampa. Dorian just missed us. But this is the third major hurricane, including Mathew that has threatened us. This is three major hurricanes in five years. It's the new normal. The actual hurricanes aren't bad. It's the lead up to them. You can taste the tension and fear around you. It's pretty crazy.

Yes, that's what I suspected. I have a close relative who lives on the east coast of Florida and his family has had to evacuate the area several times, including most recently for Dorian. When he told me that he was sick of having to do this, I suggested that he sell his home, and move farther from the coast to higher ground or to rent a home in a more secure area until he can permanently move away. Each person has to deal with whatever situation they find themselves in. If Dorian had hit the east coast of Florida in the same way it hit Nassau, the damage would have been catastrophic. Even homes designed and built to withstand hurricane winds are not built to withstand sustained winds above 200 mph and huge storm surges. Unfortunately, this is, as you noted, the new normal in many coastal areas.

Gangaji once told a funny story about Papaji that deals with this kind of situation. One day Papaji told a story to his senior students. He said that there was a guy who lived in an apartment on a second floor. On the first floor a new motorcycle shop was installed. Each day the mechanics tuning the cycles revved them up, and disturbed the guy's meditation. Papaji asked his students what advice they would give the guy. One student suggested meditating upon the sound of the revved up engines. Another student suggested a different meditation technique designed to take one's mind off any external sounds. Another student suggested meditating sporadically in between the cycle noises. After all of the students had offered the same sorts of responses, one of them asked Papaji what he would suggest. Papaji replied, "I'd tell the guy to find somewhere else to live."

[Deleted]

Oct 9, 2019 12:28:59 GMT -5 zendancer said:

Oct 8, 2019 11:16:42 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

We're in Central Florida. I'm a veteran of eight hurricanes. I've been in houses where ceilings have collapsed. Seen water covering the parking meters outside my front door in Miami Beach when I lived there. I stayed on the beach for Irma.  Irma was the first one that caught my attention. The models kept changing from a hit on the east coast of Florida to a hit on the west coast. We're on the east side. We decided to evacuate for Irma, but by then there were no hotels in five states around Florida, almost everyone in Florida was leaving. Plus driving was a nightmare. I know folks who ran out of gas running from Irma. It was insane just trying to get gas. I have four parrots and two dogs. My vehicle is a traveling zoo. Hunkering down for Irma was wild. Just in my area, we had twenty one tornados. My wife's cell phone kept screeching with alarms for tornados and flooding. We were lucky, relatively unscathed, but out of power for three days. The wife, me and the dogs were fine, but one of the birds started to deteriorate. It was hard to watch. No power anywhere. No phone service. We managed to get a hotel room in Orlando. But just then, the power came on. We kept that bird alive by puttiing him in air in our car.

Dorian was different. I moved inland to a new community with underground power lines, a concrete block house ten miles from the ocean. I thought I was better prepared. The area I live in now has never lost power during a hurricane. When Dorian was at 140 miles an hour headed to make landfall nearby, I was cool. I had shutters up, a new roof, concrete block, plenty of supplies. We were ready. Then I get up the next day, it had 185 mph winds and 220 mph gusts, overnight. I tell my wife, we're getting out of here. She asks when we should leave. I said "right now." Couldn't afford to be out of gas with my suv/zoo.We were lucky in that Dorian was not projected to hit the west coast of Florida. We drove to my daughter's house in Tampa. Dorian just missed us. But this is the third major hurricane, including Mathew that has threatened us. This is three major hurricanes in five years. It's the new normal. The actual hurricanes aren't bad. It's the lead up to them. You can taste the tension and fear around you. It's pretty crazy.

Yes, that's what I suspected. I have a close relative who lives on the east coast of Florida and his family has had to evacuate the area several times, including most recently for Dorian. When he told me that he was sick of having to do this, I suggested that he sell his home, and move farther from the coast to higher ground or to rent a home in a more secure area until he can permanently move away. Each person has to deal with whatever situation they find themselves in. If Dorian had hit the east coast of Florida in the same way it hit Nassau, the damage would have been catastrophic. Even homes designed and built to withstand hurricane winds are not built to withstand sustained winds above 200 mph and huge storm surges. Unfortunately, this is, as you noted, the new normal in many coastal areas.

Gangaji once told a funny story about Papaji that deals with this kind of situation. One day Papaji told a story to his senior students. He said that there was a guy who lived in an apartment on a second floor. On the first floor a new motorcycle shop was installed. Each day the mechanics tuning the cycles revved them up, and disturbed the guy's meditation. Papaji asked his students what advice they would give the guy. One student suggested meditating upon the sound of the revved up engines. Another student suggested a different meditation technique designed to take one's mind off any external sounds. Another student suggested meditating sporadically in between the cycle noises. After all of the students had offered the same sorts of responses, one of them asked Papaji what he would suggest. Papaji replied, "I'd tell the guy to find somewhere else to live."

Yes. My next move is much further inland or the west coast. I hope to stick it out here a few years. I don't believe earthquakes are affected by global  warming. Believe me if I had to choose between noisy motorcycles and 185 mph winds, the choice is easy. I can meditate with the parrots squawking and screeching, no sweat. I don't even hear it anymore. I'm working on meditating while listening to Fox News.

[zendancer]

Oct 9, 2019 12:40:51 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

Oct 9, 2019 12:28:59 GMT -5 zendancer said:

Yes, that's what I suspected. I have a close relative who lives on the east coast of Florida and his family has had to evacuate the area several times, including most recently for Dorian. When he told me that he was sick of having to do this, I suggested that he sell his home, and move farther from the coast to higher ground or to rent a home in a more secure area until he can permanently move away. Each person has to deal with whatever situation they find themselves in. If Dorian had hit the east coast of Florida in the same way it hit Nassau, the damage would have been catastrophic. Even homes designed and built to withstand hurricane winds are not built to withstand sustained winds above 200 mph and huge storm surges. Unfortunately, this is, as you noted, the new normal in many coastal areas.

Gangaji once told a funny story about Papaji that deals with this kind of situation. One day Papaji told a story to his senior students. He said that there was a guy who lived in an apartment on a second floor. On the first floor a new motorcycle shop was installed. Each day the mechanics tuning the cycles revved them up, and disturbed the guy's meditation. Papaji asked his students what advice they would give the guy. One student suggested meditating upon the sound of the revved up engines. Another student suggested a different meditation technique designed to take one's mind off any external sounds. Another student suggested meditating sporadically in between the cycle noises. After all of the students had offered the same sorts of responses, one of them asked Papaji what he would suggest. Papaji replied, "I'd tell the guy to find somewhere else to live."

Yes. My next move is much further inland or the west coast. I hope to stick it out here a few years. I don't believe earthquakes are affected by global  warming. Believe me if I had to choose between noisy motorcycles and 185 mph winds, the choice is easy. I can meditate with the parrots squawking and screeching, no sweat. I don't even hear it anymore. I'm working on meditating while listening to Fox News.

FWIW, my college major was geology, and even though I live in Tennessee, I always buy earthquake insurance (which doesn't add much to the cost of the premium). My agent asked me why I buy the added protection, and I told him about the geological history of Tennessee. After he learned what happened during the New Madrid Earthquake during the days of Davy Crockett (when the Mississippi River ran backwards filling up the sunken area we now call Reelfoot Lake), and about many earthquakes associated with faults above the granite dome under Nashville, he began adding that kind of insurance to his own policy. haha

I'm currently preparing to build a new small home, and because of all the climate-related stuff that's been happening, I've made plans to make the home floodproof, windproof, and fireproof to a much greater extent than ever before. After the Paradise, CA fire, it became obvious that people who live in wooded areas need to consider the potential of high-speed wind-driven fires. ITSW, after seeing Houston flood repeatedly after massive rain events, the 500-year flood plain maps are obviously way out of date. I also intend to build a small basement storm room reinforced with steel and concrete that could withstand an F4 tornado. Even if the home is never threatened, these kinds of protective measures will probably have enough market appeal to a potential buyer to pay for the extra material and labor. As the Boy Scouts like to say, "Be prepared."

[Deleted]

Oct 9, 2019 15:08:26 GMT -5 zendancer said:

... I also intend to build a small basement storm room reinforced with steel and concrete that could withstand an F4 tornado. ...

I admit I know zilch about building, but this image scares me. I guess just make sure the door opens inward so you can get out when the room is buried in rubble.  

[Deleted]

Oct 8, 2019 10:25:19 GMT -5 zendancer said:

Oct 8, 2019 10:10:13 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

There are times when life is viewing a epic unfolding from a safe distance. Then there are times, like when Hurricane Dorian came menacing, that this epic grabs me by the balls and pulls me in. There was no way to view it from a safe distance. Surrender then was the only avenue to peace. Is this what Niz meant when he said "seeing that I am no-thing is wisdom, seeing that I am everything is love; between these two my life moves." 

I'm an ordinary peep, but I'm curious about what you're describing. Do you live in what was at one time the path of Dorian? Was there a threat to you and your family? If you were threatened, why wouldn't you respond in whatever way seemed most appropriate? My suggestion would be to forget Niz and other sages, and just deal with whatever arises. You're a meditator, so does the equanimity attained from zazen carry over into ordinary life?

I think what I'm saying is the mind does not want this to happen. It does not want this kind of threat. Surrender doesn't mean you don't do everything you can to stay safe and keep your loved ones safe. Surrender means accepting these kinds of threat as an inevitable part of life, which is also what death is.The hard thing for this body/mind is watching those I love suffer. Surrender means accepting that this is unavoidable, and making room for the pain associated with that. 

[Deleted]

Yet another question for the Self Realized. So you see the rope is not a snake, but yet you stay clear of the rope as if it were. Why? Because the rope bites? Because you love your imaginary creation? It just happens? I recognize no answer is correct, but I still ask the question. Probably because this obstinate body/mind is working overtime to stick around, hanging on tightly.

[siftingtothetruth]

Nov 18, 2019 9:01:45 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

Yet another question for the Self Realized. So you see the rope is not a snake, but yet you stay clear of the rope as if it were. Why? Because the rope bites? Because you love your imaginary creation? It just happens? I recognize no answer is correct, but I still ask the question. Probably because this obstinate body/mind is working overtime to stick around, hanging on tightly.

Basically because the rope/snake analogy is just an analogy... it's not exactly that one sees the snake as a rope, but that the entire way of looking at things is understood to be wrong. It's only from that wrong way of looking at things that "SR people" appear to be staying clear of any rope-snakes.

[satchitananda]

Nov 18, 2019 9:01:45 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

Yet another question for the Self Realized. So you see the rope is not a snake, but yet you stay clear of the rope as if it were. Why? Because the rope bites? Because you love your imaginary creation? It just happens? I recognize no answer is correct, but I still ask the question. Probably because this obstinate body/mind is working overtime to stick around, hanging on tightly.

The rope is your true transcendent unchanging nature. The snake is what appears to be the superimposition of maya on top of the rope which is mistakenly taken to be separate from the rope. In actuality there never was a snake, only rope. The snake was only ever the rope appearing to be a snake.