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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 13, 2017 7:19:22 GMT -5
Is it wrong or improper to ask (here on ST's and the moderated section) the question: Why does pain and suffering exist in the world?
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Post by andrew on Apr 13, 2017 7:48:54 GMT -5
To point us back to wholeness. It is like a safety net, it means we cannot get too lost.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 7:51:42 GMT -5
Is it wrong or improper to ask (here on ST's and the moderated section) the question: Why does pain and suffering exist in the world? I think that's a proper spiritual question, but it's not the same as debating politics or whether Assad's government forces or another group were the perpetrators of the chemical weapons attack. Those specifics aren't required to talk about the fact that bad stuff happens in the world. The question is, should it be tolerated when such a discussion appears occasionally. I think you are annoyed because you feel you're being overly monitored and corrected for breaking the rules. And that I understand. It won't help if what has been perceived as a place to freely express views starts to feel oppressive. Reefs wants it to settle down into his vision of a perfect forum and then he will leave it alone. But that ignores the fact that people come and go and the dynamic is constantly changing. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 13, 2017 8:27:19 GMT -5
Is it wrong or improper to ask (here on ST's and the moderated section) the question: Why does pain and suffering exist in the world? I think that's a proper spiritual question, but it's not the same as debating politics or whether Assad's government forces or another group were the perpetrators of the chemical weapons attack. Those specifics aren't required to talk about the fact that bad stuff happens in the world. The question is, should it be tolerated when such a discussion appears occasionally. I think you are annoyed because you feel you're being overly monitored and corrected for breaking the rules. And that I understand. It won't help if what has been perceived as a place to freely express views starts to feel oppressive. Reefs wants it to settle down into his vision of a perfect forum and then he will leave it alone. But that ignores the fact that people come and go and the dynamic is constantly changing. No, no problem, I understand we went over the line and got into unnecessary stuff. But it's a very tangled web of interaction. .....I guess I'm really only beginning to understand how one-dimensional nonduality is. I guess my point is it seems that ND has no answer for the why of pain and suffering in the world. |
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Post by maxdprophet on Apr 13, 2017 8:28:13 GMT -5
Is it wrong or improper to ask (here on ST's and the moderated section) the question: Why does pain and suffering exist in the world? Of course not on one. The other is a koan, timeless. |
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Post by maxdprophet on Apr 13, 2017 8:29:32 GMT -5
I think that's a proper spiritual question, but it's not the same as debating politics or whether Assad's government forces or another group were the perpetrators of the chemical weapons attack. Those specifics aren't required to talk about the fact that bad stuff happens in the world. The question is, should it be tolerated when such a discussion appears occasionally. I think you are annoyed because you feel you're being overly monitored and corrected for breaking the rules. And that I understand. It won't help if what has been perceived as a place to freely express views starts to feel oppressive. Reefs wants it to settle down into his vision of a perfect forum and then he will leave it alone. But that ignores the fact that people come and go and the dynamic is constantly changing. No, no problem, I understand we went over the line and got into unnecessary stuff. But it's a very tangled web of interaction. .....I guess I'm really only beginning to understand how one-dimensional nonduality is. I guess my point is it seems that ND has no answer for the why of pain and suffering in the world. Depends on what you mean by an answer. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 13, 2017 8:34:38 GMT -5
Is it wrong or improper to ask (here on ST's and the moderated section) the question: Why does pain and suffering exist in the world? Not at all. 'Why' means 'for what pupose'. There is no purpose, it simply is. This IS -ness of Reality, without any reason, explanation, purpose. 'Why' is a question that has very few meaningful answers. It may be applied in sciences when one deals with concrete identifiable phenomena, figures, facts. Their application is limited only to that particular avenue of enquiry. In existential sense - 'why' is the most meaningless question. Because. Yea, I've been getting that answer for years here, it boggles my mind. But that answer is barely scratching the surface, of course the life and universe we see, in terms of itself, is meaningless, any atheist will tell me that. I guess from now on when I think of ND, a head stuck in the sand will come to mind. I never stopped asking existential questions. It seems ND presupposes there is nothing under the surface. |
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Post by andrew on Apr 13, 2017 8:40:26 GMT -5
Not at all. 'Why' means 'for what pupose'. There is no purpose, it simply is. This IS -ness of Reality, without any reason, explanation, purpose. 'Why' is a question that has very few meaningful answers. It may be applied in sciences when one deals with concrete identifiable phenomena, figures, facts. Their application is limited only to that particular avenue of enquiry. In existential sense - 'why' is the most meaningless question. Because. Yea, I've been getting that answer for years here, it boggles my mind. But that answer is barely scratching the surface, of course the life and universe we see, in terms of itself, is meaningless, any atheist will tell me that. I guess from now on when I think of ND, a head stuck in the sand will come to mind. I never stopped asking existential questions. It seems ND presupposes there is nothing under the surface. Yes in a way, ND cancels both questions and answers, whereas spirituality entertains questions and answers them, at least up to a point. Why do we experience, why do we exist, why does life exist, why is there suffering, why is there illusion, why do we love, what is my purpose, what happens when we die....these are all questions spirituality is able and willing to address conceptually. ND is kind of like a valid niche market, I can see value to the cancelling. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 8:43:10 GMT -5
I think that's a proper spiritual question, but it's not the same as debating politics or whether Assad's government forces or another group were the perpetrators of the chemical weapons attack. Those specifics aren't required to talk about the fact that bad stuff happens in the world. The question is, should it be tolerated when such a discussion appears occasionally. I think you are annoyed because you feel you're being overly monitored and corrected for breaking the rules. And that I understand. It won't help if what has been perceived as a place to freely express views starts to feel oppressive. Reefs wants it to settle down into his vision of a perfect forum and then he will leave it alone. But that ignores the fact that people come and go and the dynamic is constantly changing. No, no problem, I understand we went over the line and got into unnecessary stuff. But it's a very tangled web of interaction. .....I guess I'm really only beginning to understand how one-dimensional nonduality is. I guess my point is it seems that ND has no answer for the why of pain and suffering in the world. Nonduality doesn't have a message. All it is, is a set of pointers and yogas or tantras to point you to experiencing non dual awareness which is the natural state. Nothing more. Then you live your life and see what happens with this knowledge. You cannot make a plan based on ND teachings because there aren't really any teachings. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 13, 2017 8:54:16 GMT -5
No, no problem, I understand we went over the line and got into unnecessary stuff. But it's a very tangled web of interaction. .....I guess I'm really only beginning to understand how one-dimensional nonduality is. I guess my point is it seems that ND has no answer for the why of pain and suffering in the world. Nonduality doesn't have a message. All it is, is a set of pointers and yogas or tantras to point you to experiencing non dual awareness which is the natural state. Nothing more. Then you live your life and see what happens with this knowledge. You cannot make a plan based on ND teachings because there aren't really any teachings. But I don't understand why people see that as the end of the journey. It's not the end of the journey. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 13, 2017 8:55:38 GMT -5
Yea, I've been getting that answer for years here, it boggles my mind. But that answer is barely scratching the surface, of course the life and universe we see, in terms of itself, is meaningless, any atheist will tell me that. I guess from now on when I think of ND, a head stuck in the sand will come to mind. I never stopped asking existential questions. It seems ND presupposes there is nothing under the surface. You can ask, why not... as long as you are aware there will never be an answer you want. You want something clear cut, absolutely provable, elegant, easy to digest and yet addressing every instance of existence... Be clear on that one, SDP - you will not find it.Now you can ask questions, nothing wrong with that. Does it take you away from being? No? Then all is well and good. I would reframe it and apply that same question specifically to human life of forms, not to 'in the world'. just your opinion. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 8:56:48 GMT -5
Nonduality doesn't have a message. All it is, is a set of pointers and yogas or tantras to point you to experiencing non dual awareness which is the natural state. Nothing more. Then you live your life and see what happens with this knowledge. You cannot make a plan based on ND teachings because there aren't really any teachings. But I don't understand why people see that as the end of the journey. It's not the end of the journey. What is "that"? Reading a book or having a discussion about ND is the end of the journey? You mean SR? |
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Post by maxdprophet on Apr 13, 2017 9:05:30 GMT -5
Not at all. 'Why' means 'for what pupose'. There is no purpose, it simply is. This IS -ness of Reality, without any reason, explanation, purpose. 'Why' is a question that has very few meaningful answers. It may be applied in sciences when one deals with concrete identifiable phenomena, figures, facts. Their application is limited only to that particular avenue of enquiry. In existential sense - 'why' is the most meaningless question. Because. Yea, I've been getting that answer for years here, it boggles my mind. But that answer is barely scratching the surface, of course the life and universe we see, in terms of itself, is meaningless, any atheist will tell me that. I guess from now on when I think of ND, a head stuck in the sand will come to mind. I never stopped asking existential questions. It seems ND presupposes there is nothing under the surface. Just a bit ago you admitted that at SR may lead to more compassionate, appropriate action. Perhaps weigh that against the absence of an answer to your philosophical Q (and don't get me wrong...it's a fine Q). |
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Post by Reefs on Apr 13, 2017 9:06:49 GMT -5
Is it wrong or improper to ask (here on ST's and the moderated section) the question: Why does pain and suffering exist in the world? Yes, it's absolutely okay to ask existential questions. It's also okay to not discuss non-duality and self-help or practice or prayer instead. (and the entire forum is moderated now, fyi) |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 13, 2017 9:08:51 GMT -5
But I don't understand why people see that as the end of the journey. It's not the end of the journey. What is "that"? Reading a book or having a discussion about ND is the end of the journey? You mean SR?Yes. |
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