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Post by zendancer on Apr 13, 2017 15:50:23 GMT -5
I thought my post answered your question. In the West, existential issues have been primarily regarded as philosophical, and our philosophical tradition is strongly dualistic. I had been thinking about existential questions for about 11 years prior to meeting my wife, but I had never found the answer to a single question. My wife had taken a course in western philosophy primarily because she had one big question--"Who am I?" By contrast, I thought I knew who I was. haha. AAR she studied Keirekegard (sp?), Neitsche, etc, and she worked like a dog trying to understand their BS. At some point she read about their lives, and discovered that none of them were very happy. She got angry and went to see her professor, who turned out to be a cool guy. He laughed and said, "Oh, you need to take my course in eastern religion." She did that and brought home a huge pile of books including the Tao Te Ching, The Dhammapada, Zen East and West, and others. I looked at the books, and was astonished. Intuitively I realized that those books were written by sages or about sages who knew what I wanted to know. Until that time, I never knew anything about the Buddha or any other eastern sages. I started reading and I read about non-duality for the next 9 years, but I never found the answer to a single one of my questions. At that time, none of the books described meditation, and I used to wonder, "How did these guys find what I want to know?" During that 9 years I probably read 50 books about Zen and Buddhism. Finally, a new book got published that described meditation exercises. I started meditating, and within 5 months I started falling into deep states of samadhi. As a result of an initial CC experience, 7 of my questions got answered, and I never looked back. I then realized that everything I wanted to know was accessible through silent awareness. My last question was resolved in 1999, and then I was free. After reading about Ramana, Papaji, Niz, Ramesh, and other Indian gurus, I realized that there was a long tradition in India of people who approached existential questions differently than people in the states. Until recently, people in the states who were interested in existential issues spent all of their time thinking about the issues. Today, forums like this one are having the same effect as gurus in India. Most of the sages who post on this forum tell people, "you'll never find what you're looking for by thinking about it. You need to pursue your questions in a different way---by becoming still, by looking within, by doing self-inquiry, etc." From what I can see, more and more people are waking up as a result of reading about what we might call "the direct path," and in the future India will not be the only hotbed of non-duality in the world. Do you understand what I'm saying?
WHY? There is a simple answer, think 'Reality', think how people live in India, THINK. I'll leave the thinking to you. I have to go check on a concrete slab that we poured today. |
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Post by maxdprophet on Apr 13, 2017 15:54:04 GMT -5
I thought my post answered your question. In the West, existential issues have been primarily regarded as philosophical, and our philosophical tradition is strongly dualistic. I had been thinking about existential questions for about 11 years prior to meeting my wife, but I had never found the answer to a single question. My wife had taken a course in western philosophy primarily because she had one big question--"Who am I?" By contrast, I thought I knew who I was. haha. AAR she studied Keirekegard (sp?), Neitsche, etc, and she worked like a dog trying to understand their BS. At some point she read about their lives, and discovered that none of them were very happy. She got angry and went to see her professor, who turned out to be a cool guy. He laughed and said, "Oh, you need to take my course in eastern religion." She did that and brought home a huge pile of books including the Tao Te Ching, The Dhammapada, Zen East and West, and others. I looked at the books, and was astonished. Intuitively I realized that those books were written by sages or about sages who knew what I wanted to know. Until that time, I never knew anything about the Buddha or any other eastern sages. I started reading and I read about non-duality for the next 9 years, but I never found the answer to a single one of my questions. At that time, none of the books described meditation, and I used to wonder, "How did these guys find what I want to know?" During that 9 years I probably read 50 books about Zen and Buddhism. Finally, a new book got published that described meditation exercises. I started meditating, and within 5 months I started falling into deep states of samadhi. As a result of an initial CC experience, 7 of my questions got answered, and I never looked back. I then realized that everything I wanted to know was accessible through silent awareness. My last question was resolved in 1999, and then I was free. After reading about Ramana, Papaji, Niz, Ramesh, and other Indian gurus, I realized that there was a long tradition in India of people who approached existential questions differently than people in the states. Until recently, people in the states who were interested in existential issues spent all of their time thinking about the issues. Today, forums like this one are having the same effect as gurus in India. Most of the sages who post on this forum tell people, "you'll never find what you're looking for by thinking about it. You need to pursue your questions in a different way---by becoming still, by looking within, by doing self-inquiry, etc." From what I can see, more and more people are waking up as a result of reading about what we might call "the direct path," and in the future India will not be the only hotbed of non-duality in the world. Do you understand what I'm saying?
WHY? There is a simple answer, think 'Reality', think how people live in India, THINK. Are you thinking of why siddhartha left his cushy environs? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 13, 2017 15:59:27 GMT -5
OK, here is my fundamental difference with it seems almost everyone here. For me, our true nature isn't static, it has the possibility of growing and evolving. The caterpillar has the possibility of becoming a butterfly, but there are no guarantees. The caterpillar might get eaten by a bird. The caterpillar cannot possibly know what it is to be a butterfly. A caterpillar is virtually stuck in two dimensions FAIAP. The butterfly is not. And then this is just a poor analogy. But then a caterpillar might see a butterfly, and yet have no conception whatsoever that that could be its true nature. If folks here have been talking about anything being static, I've missed it. You could talk about the being of a rock, the being of a plant, the being of an animal, the being of a man. A terrorist might have a certain level of being. A Lao Tzu or a Socrates (the Greek dude, not the semi-(?)fictional on the pages or Nick Nolte Socrates), or Buddha or Jesus would most definitely have a different level of being. Not static means the possibility of changing one's being. I can count on one hand the people who have shown interest in this here (with me anyway). But that's what I mean by not-static. Static could involve movement, but it would be within one's "circle". Flatland would be a ~parable~/allegory about change of being. |
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Post by maxdprophet on Apr 13, 2017 16:06:47 GMT -5
If folks here have been talking about anything being static, I've missed it. You could talk about the being of a rock, the being of a plant, the being of an animal, the being of a man. A terrorist might have a certain level of being. A Lao Tzu or a Socrates (the Greek dude, not the semi-(?)fictional on the pages or Nick Nolte Socrates), or Buddha or Jesus would most definitely have a different level of being. Not static means the possibility of changing one's being. I can count on one hand the people who have shown interest in this here (with me anyway). But that's what I mean by not-static. Static could involve movement, but it would be within one's "circle". Flatland would be a ~parable~/allegory about change of being. I hear folks talk about no end, a constant unfolding. 'Done' is a milestone on a continuing journey. As far as destiny goes, I don't have anything to go on there. Flatland, allegory of the cave, caterpillar-butterfly...these all point to transcendental change. |
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Post by maxdprophet on Apr 13, 2017 16:08:54 GMT -5
Are you thinking of why siddhartha left his cushy environs? Not at all. This was my original question: Have you EVER asked yourself this question... why so many 'enlightened' beings seem to come from India? Huh??.. I would be interested in your thoughts on this one.
ZD not in the mood to answer. All tomorrow. Good night. Psychotropics? |
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Post by zendancer on Apr 13, 2017 16:18:33 GMT -5
Are you thinking of why siddhartha left his cushy environs? Not at all. This was my original question: Have you EVER asked yourself this question... why so many 'enlightened' beings seem to come from India? Huh??.. I would be interested in your thoughts on this one.
ZD not in the mood to answer. All tomorrow. Good night. No, I never asked myself that question, and it is not the kind of question that would ever have interested me. |
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Post by zendancer on Apr 13, 2017 16:38:40 GMT -5
You could talk about the being of a rock, the being of a plant, the being of an animal, the being of a man. A terrorist might have a certain level of being. A Lao Tzu or a Socrates (the Greek dude, not the semi-(?)fictional on the pages or Nick Nolte Socrates), or Buddha or Jesus would most definitely have a different level of being. Not static means the possibility of changing one's being. I can count on one hand the people who have shown interest in this here (with me anyway). But that's what I mean by not-static. Static could involve movement, but it would be within one's "circle". Flatland would be a ~parable~/allegory about change of being. I hear folks talk about no end, a constant unfolding. 'Done' is a milestone on a continuing journey. As far as destiny goes, I don't have anything to go on there. Flatland, allegory of the cave, caterpillar-butterfly...these all point to transcendental change. There are two or three issues here. First, the spiritual search can come to a definite end. If someone has a hundred questions, after the hundredth question is resolved, the overt search is over. From that point forward, the unfolding of life continues, but there is no issue that needs resolution. New realizations may occur, but they did not involve anything that was actively being searched for. Most people who attain SR report that afterwards, peace and equanimity become their default condition. There are a few sages who claim that certain asanas or samskaras continued to be burned off following SR, and many report that there is a period of integration as the natural state becomes the default state. Most people who attain SR claim that they underwent a process of transformation that preceded SR, and at least one sage claims that it was like a pregnancy that resulted in a kind of spiritual birth. ATST, there are other sages who will say that after attaining SR, they realized that nothing really happened--that the entire journey was part of the illusion associated with thinking that they were a separate person. |
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Post by Reefs on Apr 13, 2017 21:13:42 GMT -5
ZD, please quit the guru b*ullsh*t, it stopped working on me a while back, especially after I've seen the partiality of gurus to red wine (Jed's choice) and working girls' p*ssies. Have you EVER asked yourself this question... why so many 'enlightened' beings seem to come from India? Huh??.. I would be interested in your thoughts on this one. Tano, you are on this slippery slope again. A less aggressive stance would be advisable if you want to last on this forum. I don't see you as a food fighter, your interest and concern seems genuine and you seem to speak your heart and mind, but I think you do have a bit of a crusader in you, you seem to be on some kind of mission. So tone it down a bit. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 21:17:58 GMT -5
A sage mailing list. Cool! Yes. When I sent you a PM on one of the subjects that interested me a few weeks ago, I hadn't yet formalized some of these questions, but after the retreat I went on two weeks ago, I decided to find out how different sages would respond to some specific questions. I'm interested in hearing how various people would describe the realization that ended their spiritual search. I've talked to several people in person, but I felt like that was too small a sampling, and I got curious concerning what other people would say. Look forward to reading that. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 0:03:01 GMT -5
It is simple and based on reality of every day living. People in India are incredibly oppressed in their day to day life. Cultural norms are based on expectation of conformity, an absolute lack of privacy, strong limitations on sexual expression (men badly siffer from this), caste system which prevents people from moving up the social ladder, and the downward move is seen as a disgrace. It has been so for generations. Now, look at the life of one individual and get a sense of entrappment they feel. The ONLY way to go is inwards, to a place where none of those above apply. While Westerners come to seeking for similar reasons, their circumstance is NOTHING compared to that of a human in the collectivist Asian countries. Here a man has very few choices. Western pursuit of 'enlightenment' is the privilige of the well fed. Eastern falling into 'no space' happens as a result of desperation, where a human finally achieves a degree of inner liberation in the absence of it in the outer world. I speak from experience. India was always full of destitute travelling 'gurus' who fell out of society and are considered liberated, because in a sense - they are. They stopped obliging the human rule. That's a flawed argument simply because the economic and cultural picture you paint of India that supposedly gave rise to looking inwards could apply to many countries. Also when you don't know where you next meal is coming from, enlightenment is unlikely to be high on your bucket list. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 0:29:51 GMT -5
That's a flawed argument simply because the economic and cultural picture you paint of India that supposedly gave rise to looking inwards could apply to many countries. Also when you don't know where you next meal is coming from, enlightenment is unlikely to be high on your bucket list. It is not an argument. Reality is unforgiving and clear. When you don't know when your next meal is coming from - you don't 'pursue' enlightenment. You - become it. Those Westerners in a state of search for thirty plus years - are not desperate enough. That's why 30+ When I first came to Thailand it seemed that everyone was very materialistic until I realised it was born out of survival. They don't have the safety net of welfare that most western countries have. So when they go to the Buddhist temple, it's to get merit so they can have a better materialistic life. That's mostly what Theravada Buddhism is about in Thailand's cities (with the exception of the more authentic so called forest tradition). I suspect it's a similar situation in Cambodia. Who knows what life was like five thousand years ago when Vedic knowledge started to bloom in India. Something very special happened and I don't think it's really possible to know why. |
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Post by runstill on Apr 14, 2017 1:39:17 GMT -5
It is not an argument. Reality is unforgiving and clear. When you don't know when your next meal is coming from - you don't 'pursue' enlightenment. You - become it. Those Westerners in a state of search for thirty plus years - are not desperate enough. That's why 30+ When I first came to Thailand it seemed that everyone was very materialistic until I realised it was born out of survival. They don't have the safety net of welfare that most western countries have. So when they go to the Buddhist temple, it's to get merit so they can have a better materialistic life. That's mostly what Theravada Buddhism is about in Thailand's cities (with the exception of the more authentic so called forest tradition). I suspect it's a similar situation in Cambodia. Who knows what life was like five thousand years ago when Vedic knowledge started to bloom in India. Something very special happened and I don't think it's really possible to know why. We can speculate though, before the industrial era it would have been impossible to feed and shelter 7 plus billion people, that is now easily doable the next generation will be running things soon and the new technologies on the horizon will give them the tools to have a society that could be utopian and Vedic knowledge able to flourish unhindered by base physical requirements. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 2:15:43 GMT -5
When I first came to Thailand it seemed that everyone was very materialistic until I realised it was born out of survival. They don't have the safety net of welfare that most western countries have. So when they go to the Buddhist temple, it's to get merit so they can have a better materialistic life. That's mostly what Theravada Buddhism is about in Thailand's cities (with the exception of the more authentic so called forest tradition). I suspect it's a similar situation in Cambodia. Who knows what life was like five thousand years ago when Vedic knowledge started to bloom in India. Something very special happened and I don't think it's really possible to know why. We can speculate though, before the industrial era it would have been impossible to feed and shelter 7 plus billion people, that is now easily doable the next generation will be running things soon and the new technologies on the horizon will give them the tools to have a society that could be utopian and Vedic knowledge able to flourish unhindered by base physical requirements. |
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Post by Reefs on Apr 14, 2017 2:24:22 GMT -5
I am what I am and will speak what I see/sense. It will not adhere to your idea of 'good behaviour', and perhaps you need to examine your ideas in that area closely. If what I am saying does not resonate - sure, ban me. The forum will become a uniform place of conformity and a 'nice' place to be. Just wait when I give a reply to Andrew, then go ahead. I am not asking for nice or good behavior in a moral sense. We've tried that already and it didn't work out because it's phony. What I am asking for is appropriate behavior. And this overly combative attitude just isn't appropriate. It's your inner struggle that is on display here. This Jed experience seems to have left you deeply traumatized. |
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Post by Reefs on Apr 14, 2017 3:16:13 GMT -5
I am not asking for nice or good behavior in a moral sense. We've tried that already and it didn't work out because it's phony. What I am asking for is appropriate behavior. And this overly combative attitude just isn't appropriate. It's your inner struggle that is on display here. This Jed experience seems to have left you deeply traumatized. It was appropriate for the interaction in question. Show me otherwise, and we will run into the difficulty of determining what is 'appropriate' in which interaction. It took me three pages to receive a clear and honest reply. The Jed experience has added to Clarity, nothing more. The only thing that can traumatize me is a prolonged continuous physical pain. FYI, you are pretty close to crossing the line every single day. You actually already crossed the line two weeks ago when Satch reported your posts but at that time the new rules weren't in place yet. So I can't take you to task for that. However, when making such a call of appropriate or inappropriate, your recent post history will be a factor as well. So either tone it down or catch a warning next time. Your choice. |
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