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Post by zendancer on Apr 13, 2017 13:54:26 GMT -5
Of course bodies die, but what we are is not limited to bodies. What we are is what all bodies appear within. The problem is that people do not understand what is meant by the word "imagination." If someone asked me, "Is my body imaginary?" I'd hit them (lightly) with a Zen stick, and ask, "Does that feel imaginary?" LOL After an initial CC experience, I was never again concerned about death because it was obvious that what I am is not born and does not die. When Tess Hughes had her big realization, she said, "I realized what I was before my parents were born. I had finally found my way home." This kind of statement cannot be understood by the mind until a particular realization occurs. One of the formal Zen koans is, "What was your original face before your parents were born." Anyone who has had the realization I'm pointing to will be easily able to answer that question. Right. 'Never born, never die' conspiracy. ZD, a lot of things you say are valid, but sometimes you come up with metaphysical nonsense. The body houses your consciusness. You are not the body or the consciousness, but with expiration of one (body) followed by expiration of another (consciousness) - you are NOT. 'What was your original face before your parents were born' has only one answer ===>> it wasn't. I know it is easy to dismiss what I am saying with a solid unbeatable response of 'until a particular realisation occurs'... However, unbeatable, Ramana style Death Awareness, is not for the faint hearted and is as solid a realisation as one can get. Granted, not on the lines of bliss, but strangely, it grants balance because one knows without doubt own absolute mortality. And no need to weave unreal stories around it. So let me ask you something.. where was that which you are.... when the pyramids were built? What I am is what built the pyramids, what is the pyramids, what is aware of the pyramids, and what can imagine the pyramids. When this entire universe disappears, what I am will still be here. This truth can be directly apprehended, but not by the intellect. As Rumi so eloquently noted: The Infinite, whose love and joy are everywhere, Can't come to visit you Unless you aren't there. The Infinite can only be apprehended by the Infinite, so selfhood must vanish before the truth can be directly realized. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 13:59:01 GMT -5
It's not just me. You should speak to zendancer about when he smuggled wine into a retreat. This awakening business can be bad ass stuff. No doubt. Look at Jed's escapades. It's maleness,. btw.. they do use vaselin here. Tight. That's what boys are telling me, but I saw it too. Too much information.  |
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Post by zendancer on Apr 13, 2017 14:02:55 GMT -5
It's not just me. You should speak to zendancer about when he smuggled wine into a retreat. This awakening business can be bad ass stuff. Haha. I had forgotten about that. Yes, I used to sneak out and go to a mall and have snacks while all of the serious Zen students were meditating like mad. I was pretty serious, too, but I always liked coloring outside of the lines. I also shot the Zen Master a bird during a formal dharma talk just to see what he would do. I put a skull on the altar next to the Buddha to shake everyone up and provoke some serious dharma combat, but the head monk was the only guy who noticed it, in horror, and he quickly swept it under the table before anyone else could see it. Life can be so much fun! |
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Post by zendancer on Apr 13, 2017 14:23:44 GMT -5
What I am is what built the pyramids, what is the pyramids, what is aware of the pyramids, and what can imagine the pyramids. When this entire universe disappears, what I am will still be here. This truth can be directly apprehended, but not by the intellect. As Rumi so eloquently noted: The Infinite, whose love and joy are everywhere, Can't come to visit you Unless you aren't there. The Infinite can only be apprehended by the Infinite, so selfhood must vanish before the truth can be directly realized. Et tu, Brute...... I'll come and poke your earthly remains, OK? And we can have a nice chat then....unless of course I'll shuffle off the mortal coil first. P.S. Blah Blah Blah... pretty words. Rumi perhaps liked a little hashish. Well, I'm partial to red wine. Please feel free to poke my ashes. I have many forms, and that form won't care at all. Ironically, if you poke my ashes, I'll be the one poking and getting poked at the same time. The truth is almost too funny for words! |
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Post by zendancer on Apr 13, 2017 14:37:29 GMT -5
Well, I'm partial to red wine. Please feel free to poke my ashes. I have many forms, and that form won't care at all. Ironically, if you poke my ashes, I'll be the one poking and getting poked at the same time. The truth is almost too funny for words! Well... I am more interested in your ashes telling me about the other side... have you ever been a pharaoh, btw? What I am includes plants, animals, galaxies, and you. What do you think is looking out of "your" eyes? There's only one no-thing here, and THAT is what's typing and also reading these words. Anyone who can stop imagining for a while can discover this. |
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Post by andrew on Apr 13, 2017 14:48:35 GMT -5
What I am includes plants, animals, galaxies, and you. What do you think is looking out of "your" eyes? There's only one no-thing here, and THAT is what's typing and also reading these words. Anyone who can stop imagining for a while can discover this. ZD, please quit the guru b*ullsh*t, it stopped working on me a while back, especially after I've seen the partiality of gurus to red wine (Jed's choice) and working girls' p*ssies. Have you EVER asked yourself this question... why so many 'enlightened' beings seem to come from India? Huh??.. I would be interested in your thoughts on this one. I'm curious about your answer, can you share? I would say it is either because the culture lends itself to it. Or the culture lends itself to a stereotyped IMAGE of being an enlightened being, so it seems as if there are more there, but there aren't really. Could also be a bit of both. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 15:01:05 GMT -5
I'm curious about your answer, can you share? I would say it is either because the culture lends itself to it. Or the culture lends itself to a stereotyped IMAGE of being an enlightened being, so it seems as if there are more there, but there aren't really. Could also be a bit of both. I'll wait for ZD, I am curious how much he sussed it out. India has obviously been designated as a very holy place by the Rulers of the universe. That must be it. |
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Post by silver on Apr 13, 2017 15:03:05 GMT -5
What I am includes plants, animals, galaxies, and you. What do you think is looking out of "your" eyes? There's only one no-thing here, and THAT is what's typing and also reading these words. Anyone who can stop imagining for a while can discover this. ZD, please quit the guru b*ullsh*t, it stopped working on me a while back, especially after I've seen the partiality of gurus to red wine (Jed's choice) and working girls' p*ssies. Have you EVER asked yourself this question... why so many 'enlightened' beings seem to come from India? Huh??.. I would be interested in your thoughts on this one. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 15:05:33 GMT -5
India has obviously been designated as a very holy place by the Rulers of the universe. That must be it. oh.. you are back from the loo.. Let's give ZD a chance, shall we? No I'm back home. |
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Post by zendancer on Apr 13, 2017 15:06:39 GMT -5
What I am includes plants, animals, galaxies, and you. What do you think is looking out of "your" eyes? There's only one no-thing here, and THAT is what's typing and also reading these words. Anyone who can stop imagining for a while can discover this. ZD, please quit the guru b*ullsh*t, it stopped working on me a while back, especially after I've seen the partiality of gurus to red wine (Jed's choice) and working girls' p*ssies. Have you EVER asked yourself this question... why so many 'enlightened' beings seem to come from India? Huh??.. I would be interested in your thoughts on this one. TBH, I don't know many enlightened peeps from India, but I know quite a few here in the states. I would assume that India has a lot of sages because it's a very old culture, it has a long history of non-dual traditions, and because it has a large population. The Rig Veda is supposedly about 5000 years old, and from my memory of it it would be hard to find anything written that points much better to the truth. We have nothing remotely that mystical in the West except maybe the Gospel of Thomas. Non-duality came to the states primarily via Zen in the sixties, and most of the early sages written about in books here were from the Zen tradition. The advaita tradition, Ramana Maharshi, and people like Niz came along a few years later as seekers cast their nets a bit wider. These days, however, the USA is a little hotbed of non-duality (LOL), with dozens of sages teaching in California, and many others scattered around the country. Most of the sages I know personally did not wake up suddenly. Most of them had experiences and realizations that progressively revealed what's going on. Probably 30 years is the average time most of them were seekers. FWIW, I've recently emailed a lot of sages with a list of questions, and after I get sufficient feedback, I'll post some of that stuff that may be interesting to people on this forum. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 15:12:00 GMT -5
ZD, please quit the guru b*ullsh*t, it stopped working on me a while back, especially after I've seen the partiality of gurus to red wine (Jed's choice) and working girls' p*ssies. Have you EVER asked yourself this question... why so many 'enlightened' beings seem to come from India? Huh??.. I would be interested in your thoughts on this one. TBH, I don't know many enlightened peeps from India, but I know quite a few here in the states. I would assume that India has a lot of sages because it's a very old culture, it has a long history of non-dual traditions, and because it has a large population. The Rig Veda is supposedly about 5000 years old, and from my memory of it it would be hard to find anything written that points much better to the truth. We have nothing remotely that mystical in the West except maybe the Gospel of Thomas. Non-duality came to the states primarily via Zen in the sixties, and most of the early sages written about in books here were from the Zen tradition. The advaita tradition, Ramana Maharshi, and people like Niz came along a few years later as seekers cast their nets a bit wider. These days, however, the USA is a little hotbed of non-duality (LOL), with dozens of sages teaching in California, and many others scattered around the country. Most of the sages I know personally did not wake up suddenly. Most of them had experiences and realizations that progressively revealed what's going on. Probably 30 years is the average time most of them were seekers. FWIW, I've recently emailed a lot of sages with a list of questions, and after I get sufficient feedback, I'll post some of that stuff that may be interesting to people on this forum. A sage mailing list. Cool! |
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Post by zendancer on Apr 13, 2017 15:17:50 GMT -5
TBH, I don't know many enlightened peeps from India, but I know quite a few here in the states. I would assume that India has a lot of sages because it's a very old culture, it has a long history of non-dual traditions, and because it has a large population. The Rig Veda is supposedly about 5000 years old, and from my memory of it it would be hard to find anything written that points much better to the truth. We have nothing remotely that mystical in the West except maybe the Gospel of Thomas. Non-duality came to the states primarily via Zen in the sixties, and most of the early sages written about in books here were from the Zen tradition. The advaita tradition, Ramana Maharshi, and people like Niz came along a few years later as seekers cast their nets a bit wider. These days, however, the USA is a little hotbed of non-duality (LOL), with dozens of sages teaching in California, and many others scattered around the country. Most of the sages I know personally did not wake up suddenly. Most of them had experiences and realizations that progressively revealed what's going on. Probably 30 years is the average time most of them were seekers. FWIW, I've recently emailed a lot of sages with a list of questions, and after I get sufficient feedback, I'll post some of that stuff that may be interesting to people on this forum. A sage mailing list. Cool! Yes. When I sent you a PM on one of the subjects that interested me a few weeks ago, I hadn't yet formalized some of these questions, but after the retreat I went on two weeks ago, I decided to find out how different sages would respond to some specific questions. I'm interested in hearing how various people would describe the realization that ended their spiritual search. I've talked to several people in person, but I felt like that was too small a sampling, and I got curious concerning what other people would say. |
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Post by maxdprophet on Apr 13, 2017 15:36:01 GMT -5
Probably 30 years is the average time most of them were seekers. Thirty years is a looong time to grok it. That's a lot of unconsciousness in the process. Nonduality is in vogue right now. What the hell is new Reality + Gimmicks |
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Post by zendancer on Apr 13, 2017 15:42:51 GMT -5
<abbr title="Apr 14, 2017 3:06:39 GMT 7" data-timestamp="1492113999000" class="o-timestamp time">Apr 14, 2017 3:06:39 GMT 7</abbr> zendancer said: TBH, I don't know many enlightened peeps from India, but I know quite a few here in the states. I would assume that India has a lot of sages because it's a very old culture, it has a long history of non-dual traditions, and because it has a large population. The Rig Veda is supposedly about 5000 years old, and from my memory of it it would be hard to find anything written that points much better to the truth. We have nothing remotely that mystical in the West except maybe the Gospel of Thomas. Non-duality came to the states primarily via Zen in the sixties, and most of the early sages written about in books here were from the Zen tradition. The advaita tradition, Ramana Maharshi, and people like Niz came along a few years later as seekers cast their nets a bit wider. These days, however, the USA is a little hotbed of non-duality (LOL), with dozens of sages teaching in California, and many others scattered around the country. Most of the sages I know personally did not wake up suddenly. Most of them had experiences and realizations that progressively revealed what's going on. Probably 30 years is the average time most of them were seekers. FWIW, I've recently emailed a lot of sages with a list of questions, and after I get sufficient feedback, I'll post some of that stuff that may be interesting to people on this forum. OK, but this was not my question. My question was: why so many 'enlightened' beings seem to come from India? In other words... why is 'enlightenment' such a familiar thing to general population in the Indian subcontinent, compared, let's say, to the Europeans? Gurus and wandering sadhus and the likes. I am talking about this simple fact. Before enlightenment was exported to the West, we had Francis of Assisi, Jesus and a handful of others confined to monasteries. So.. what do you think? I thought my post answered your question. In the West, existential issues have been primarily regarded as philosophical, and our philosophical tradition is strongly dualistic. I had been thinking about existential questions for about 11 years prior to meeting my wife, but I had never found the answer to a single question. My wife had taken a course in western philosophy primarily because she had one big question--"Who am I?" By contrast, I thought I knew who I was. haha. AAR she studied Keirekegard (sp?), Neitsche, etc, and she worked like a dog trying to understand their BS. At some point she read about their lives, and discovered that none of them were very happy. She got angry and went to see her professor, who turned out to be a cool guy. He laughed and said, "Oh, you need to take my course in eastern religion." She did that and brought home a huge pile of books including the Tao Te Ching, The Dhammapada, Zen East and West, and others. I looked at the books, and was astonished. Intuitively I realized that those books were written by sages or about sages who knew what I wanted to know. Until that time, I never knew anything about the Buddha or any other eastern sages. I started reading and I read about non-duality for the next 9 years, but I never found the answer to a single one of my questions. At that time, none of the books described meditation, and I used to wonder, "How did these guys find what I want to know?" During that 9 years I probably read 50 books about Zen and Buddhism. Finally, a new book got published that described meditation exercises. I started meditating, and within 5 months I started falling into deep states of samadhi. As a result of an initial CC experience, 7 of my questions got answered, and I never looked back. I then realized that everything I wanted to know was accessible through silent awareness. My last question was resolved in 1999, and then I was free. After reading about Ramana, Papaji, Niz, Ramesh, and other Indian gurus, I realized that there was a long tradition in India of people who approached existential questions differently than people in the states. Until recently, people in the states who were interested in existential issues spent all of their time thinking about the issues. Today, forums like this one are having the same effect as gurus in India. Most of the sages who post on this forum tell people, "you'll never find what you're looking for by thinking about it. You need to pursue your questions in a different way---by becoming still, by looking within, by doing self-inquiry, etc." From what I can see, more and more people are waking up as a result of reading about what we might call "the direct path," and in the future India will not be the only hotbed of non-duality in the world. Do you understand what I'm saying? |
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Post by zendancer on Apr 13, 2017 15:45:30 GMT -5
Probably 30 years is the average time most of them were seekers. Thirty years is a looong time to grok it. That's a lot of unconsciousness in the process. Nonduality is in vogue right now. What the hell is new.... Yes, hopefully it won't take so long in the future. As more and more people find out about "the direct path," I suspect that the time it takes to wake up will become much faster. |
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