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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2016 3:57:56 GMT -5
just wondered, WHY would you want to stop smoking? I never did want to stop and didn't have an issue with it until the past few years. But now it affects my breathing - not in a good way - and as a result, my energy level. It's getting in the way of doing stuff I want to do. Everything else that's come along like that has been let go of with relative ease - sugar, certain foods, alcohol. But this is a real b!tch. Got some heft to it. Edit: Just realized I had a little amnesia there. I have tried to quit in the past. 2 times, the first was when I was 20. Lasted 10 days, then went out drinking and it was over. The second was something offered at work - a 'system' (Smoke Enders). Work was a pressure cooker, 15 of us signed up for the program and 14 of us went back to smoking. So part of the heft might be lack of success in the past. I don't remember why I tried to quit in those days, though, other than it's a bit of a monkey on the back. i asked because i recall a famous story about michio kushi, the macrobiotics guru, who also healed people--he once advised a teenage boy to start smoking... and my thought was also--if it doesnt bother you physically-dont worry about it and enjoy the smoke...(but it does bother you,i understand now) my best advice is : smoke consciously, without judgement... and imagine the inhaling to go into your heart(chakra,not physical), beyond the emotional heart---you might (but not necessary) ´´ask´´ ´´spirit´´ to dissolve the desire involved--it may take a year or two, but it will work... be aware that there are moments that you can postpone the next cig without effort (some of it is purely desire free habitual) dont punish yourself when you smoke...just do it, when you think of it, consciously--i am terrible at imagining-visualising too, and this method doesnt involve that.  |
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Post by laughter on Jan 12, 2016 9:51:39 GMT -5
Do you have interest in quitting at this point? Well, that's the question, isn't it? Apparently not. I do have an interest in breathing freely though. Ahhhh, well, this might sound like a smart-ass question but it's actually genuine: can you discern the link between obstructed breathing and smoking? .. and not just theoretically. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 12, 2016 9:53:15 GMT -5
Yes. I can envision it for about 2 seconds. And, yeah - I don't think my heart is in it because it seems so...false. Like fake-it-till-you-make-it. Not my typical style. What is concretizing vision? How to you include all the senses other than imagination (thought)? There's a different angle to approach this.... though maybe you tried it. Can you imagine/envision yourself to be extra healthy, well, supple, energetic, vibrant, fit etc? Can you imagine what kind of life you would have if you were that individual, and what kind of things you would be doing? The brain doesn't respond well to a 'not', it directs itself to a positive target. Interesting point andy. One I can definitely relate to from past life-improvement jags. |
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Post by quinn on Jan 12, 2016 10:48:16 GMT -5
Well, that's the question, isn't it? Apparently not. I do have an interest in breathing freely though. Ahhhh, well, this might sound like a smart-ass question but it's actually genuine: can you discern the link between obstructed breathing and smoking? .. and not just theoretically. When I only have a few a day (which was up until about 8 months ago), I didn't have the issues I'm having now. The quality of breathing also has other factors (asthma, the weather, how much exercise I've had, body pain) so it's not entirely direct. Conceivably, I could quit and still have breathing issues so I don't link them completely together. This thought also just popped up - since it's winter and too cold to smoke outside, I'm hunched up on the floor in front of the fireplace to smoke. Posture? So the link is not direct - have cigarette, breath loss. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 12, 2016 11:13:57 GMT -5
Mr. Gurdjieff worked with a group of women that came to be called The Rope (from mountain climbers who are roped together). One of them had a wish to quit smoking, and so Gurdjieff gave her the task to quit. She worked very hard at it and finally quit, she was very proud, and glad. She told Gurdjieff she had finally quit smoking. So then he told her to smoke, she was horrified. He told her, some people smoke, some people don't smoke, neither are really free. Now you are free to do either. Well, that brings up an interesting point about freedom. Was she really free to do either? Probably not, if it kicked back into a compulsion after having one. I'm aware that the freedom that gets talked about here is not in the same context as freedom from cigarettes, although it may be related - I don't know since I'm not 'there'. I used to have the idea that they were related in some important way, but I've had to let that one go. I assume when we're talking about healing and manipulating energy and that sort of thing that it's a side conversation. Except there's overlap. There's always overlap! Psychology and spirituality, science and spirituality, behavior and spirituality, philosophy and spirituality, feelings and spirituality. It can get to be a maze. Just some Quinn-rambles...in the continuing quest to locate what my intentions are. The relative matters, too. How important is Enlightenment if I can't breathe? I don't remember how things turned out, I'll look it up. ........It's just plane BS that tobacco companies didn't know how addictive tobacco is. Gurdjieff knew and wrote about it in Meetings With Remarkable Men, which was written before 1935. .....Nicotine is more addictive than heroin. I have three kids who were in the military (smoking seems to be a necessity) who struggle with quitting smoking. When I was in elementary school some group brought in a demonstration, a real lung of a non-smoker and the real lung of a smoker (blackened). That was enough for me, I never smoked. I know you can quit. There is a local radio personality here, John Hancock (he is six months younger than me, 63), afternoon talk show host (1110 Am, WBT, they crank it up to 50,000 watts after dark, so it would reach NJ). He smoked for decades. Some years ago (I think 12-15 years ago) he decided he was going to quit. He picked a date and marked it on his calendar, the date he would quit. He did, cold turkey, never smoked again. He has the afternoon 3-6 talk show. (Side issue, he grew up in Estes Park, Colorado, where The Shinning was filmed). |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 12, 2016 11:16:57 GMT -5
Ahhhh, well, this might sound like a smart-ass question but it's actually genuine: can you discern the link between obstructed breathing and smoking? .. and not just theoretically. When I only have a few a day (which was up until about 8 months ago), I didn't have the issues I'm having now. The quality of breathing also has other factors (asthma, the weather, how much exercise I've had, body pain) so it's not entirely direct. Conceivably, I could quit and still have breathing issues so I don't link them completely together. This thought also just popped up - since it's winter and too cold to smoke outside, I'm hunched up on the floor in front of the fireplace to smoke. Posture? So the link is not direct - have cigarette, breath loss. quinn, quinn, quinn........  |
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Post by quinn on Jan 12, 2016 11:27:43 GMT -5
When I only have a few a day (which was up until about 8 months ago), I didn't have the issues I'm having now. The quality of breathing also has other factors (asthma, the weather, how much exercise I've had, body pain) so it's not entirely direct. Conceivably, I could quit and still have breathing issues so I don't link them completely together. This thought also just popped up - since it's winter and too cold to smoke outside, I'm hunched up on the floor in front of the fireplace to smoke. Posture? So the link is not direct - have cigarette, breath loss. quinn, quinn, quinn........ No sadness! Maybe the universe wants to unfold this way!  |
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Post by quinn on Jan 12, 2016 11:29:55 GMT -5
Well, that brings up an interesting point about freedom. Was she really free to do either? Probably not, if it kicked back into a compulsion after having one. I'm aware that the freedom that gets talked about here is not in the same context as freedom from cigarettes, although it may be related - I don't know since I'm not 'there'. I used to have the idea that they were related in some important way, but I've had to let that one go. I assume when we're talking about healing and manipulating energy and that sort of thing that it's a side conversation. Except there's overlap. There's always overlap! Psychology and spirituality, science and spirituality, behavior and spirituality, philosophy and spirituality, feelings and spirituality. It can get to be a maze. Just some Quinn-rambles...in the continuing quest to locate what my intentions are. The relative matters, too. How important is Enlightenment if I can't breathe? I don't remember how things turned out, I'll look it up. ........It's just plane BS that tobacco companies didn't know how addictive tobacco is. Gurdjieff knew and wrote about it in Meetings With Remarkable Men, which was written before 1935. .....Nicotine is more addictive than heroin. I have three kids who were in the military (smoking seems to be a necessity) who struggle with quitting smoking. When I was in elementary school some group brought in a demonstration, a real lung of a non-smoker and the real lung of a smoker (blackened). That was enough for me, I never smoked. I know you can quit. There is a local radio personality here, John Hanpenis (he is six months younger than me, 63), afternoon talk show host (1110 Am, WBT, they crank it up to 50,000 watts after dark, so it would reach NJ). He smoked for decades. Some years ago (I think 12-15 years ago) he decided he was going to quit. He picked a date and marked it on his calendar, the date he would quit. He did, cold turkey, never smoked again. He has the afternoon 3-6 talk show. (Side issue, he grew up in Estes Park, Colorado, where The Shinning was filmed). I hate those stories.  My grandmother did the same thing. My cousin did too, but he's 350 lbs. now and diabetic so you can't count that one.  |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 12, 2016 11:35:46 GMT -5
There's a different angle to approach this.... though maybe you tried it. Can you imagine/envision yourself to be extra healthy, well, supple, energetic, vibrant, fit etc? Can you imagine what kind of life you would have if you were that individual, and what kind of things you would be doing? The brain doesn't respond well to a 'not', it directs itself to a positive target. No, I haven't tried it. Thanks. I'm pretty miserable at imagining, but I'll give it a shot. That makes sense. How're you doing? Most effective, to actually visualize in your mind. Three steps, relaxation (before the visualization, relax any tension in the body), repetition (the 3 or 4 times a day), visualization. Picture yourself with this health, doing these things, even visualize the black stuff disappearing from your lungs. Visualize the pack of cigarettes sitting there, but you don't pick them up, don't light. Do it three or four times a day, it doesn't have to take long, but be specific in the visualization. Do it morning, noon, afternoon (breakfast, lunch, supper/dinner) and before going to bed. This puts your subconscious to work on the ~problem~, and eventually you will figure out how to quit, your subconscious will reveal how to quit. The specific name for this is Self-Image Psychology, developed by Thomas T. Grey M.A. It will work. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 12, 2016 11:37:15 GMT -5
quinn, quinn, quinn........ No sadness! Maybe the universe wants to unfold this way! BS (bull sh!t). |
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Post by laughter on Jan 12, 2016 11:40:42 GMT -5
Ahhhh, well, this might sound like a smart-ass question but it's actually genuine: can you discern the link between obstructed breathing and smoking? .. and not just theoretically. When I only have a few a day (which was up until about 8 months ago), I didn't have the issues I'm having now. The quality of breathing also has other factors (asthma, the weather, how much exercise I've had, body pain) so it's not entirely direct. Conceivably, I could quit and still have breathing issues so I don't link them completely together. This thought also just popped up - since it's winter and too cold to smoke outside, I'm hunched up on the floor in front of the fireplace to smoke. Posture? So the link is not direct - have cigarette, breath loss.   (** shakes head quizzically **)  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2016 11:47:44 GMT -5
the very first time i quit, i was 18 years old, and cruising with friends in a car--stoned out of our wits..(holland 70´s)
i had been thinking ´bout quitting now and then and just always thought ´´it will happen´´--i saw a vending machine and asked the driver to stop--i got out, threw two guilders into the machines money slot--and then it hit me:´´ i am quitting NOW´´--i walked away from the machine, leaving the 2 bucks, and the tobacco, in it---i didnt smoke for,years after that, no dope either
eventually the weed got me back to the tobacco--joints --then quit the grass and discover to be hooked on the tobacco...
oh--japanese men smoke more per capita than anyone on the planet,but get no lungcancer
how?
healthy food that doesnt impair the immunesystem..
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Post by quinn on Jan 12, 2016 12:22:47 GMT -5
When I only have a few a day (which was up until about 8 months ago), I didn't have the issues I'm having now. The quality of breathing also has other factors (asthma, the weather, how much exercise I've had, body pain) so it's not entirely direct. Conceivably, I could quit and still have breathing issues so I don't link them completely together. This thought also just popped up - since it's winter and too cold to smoke outside, I'm hunched up on the floor in front of the fireplace to smoke. Posture? So the link is not direct - have cigarette, breath loss. Apparently I've confounded your point, so you'll have to come out with it straight.  |
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Post by quinn on Jan 12, 2016 12:30:45 GMT -5
the very first time i quit, i was 18 years old, and cruising with friends in a car--stoned out of our wits..(holland 70´s) i had been thinking ´bout quitting now and then and just always thought ´´it will happen´´--i saw a vending machine and asked the driver to stop--i got out, threw two guilders into the machines money slot--and then it hit me:´´ i am quitting NOW´´--i walked away from the machine, leaving the 2 bucks, and the tobacco, in it---i didnt smoke for,years after that, no dope either eventually the weed got me back to the tobacco--joints --then quit the grass and discover to be hooked on the tobacco... oh--japanese men smoke more per capita than anyone on the planet,but get no lungcancer how? healthy food that doesnt impair the immunesystem.. Or genetics. Or less toxic tobacco. Or less toxic advertising by the medical/industrial complex. Or better filters. Or a cleaner environment. Or all of the above. (They get lung cancer, just at a rate that's 10 times less than American men.) I went to a meditation event on Saturday and the one other smoker and I were chatting. He told me the best counter to cigarettes is pot. He said it cleans the lungs.  (Also peppermint and eucalyptus). |
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Post by laughter on Jan 12, 2016 12:38:01 GMT -5
Apparently I've confounded your point, so you'll have to come out with it straight. The point is that the link is very direct, but obviously anything I write (including this) at this point, is a word too many! |
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My grandmother did the same thing. My cousin did too, but he's 350 lbs. now and diabetic so you can't count that one. 
(Also peppermint and eucalyptus).