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Post by quinn on Jan 11, 2016 11:53:13 GMT -5
Yes. I can envision it for about 2 seconds. And, yeah - I don't think my heart is in it because it seems so...false. Like fake-it-till-you-make-it. Not my typical style. What is concretizing vision? How to you include all the senses other than imagination (thought)? I have zero experience with this so what follows is smelly BS, as opposed to fresh smelling, clueless BS (more typical). Concretizing means envisioning a multi-sensory you -- yes, all imagination. But trying to imagine what it sounds, feels, smells, taste's like to be that you that doesn't smoke. ...just did a spot of research to fortify my smelly BS and found this, a discussion on the problem of not being able to imagine not smoking. It would seem that 'the inability to imagine not smoking' is a phenomena in itself. Perhaps a bit of minding created by that little physical addiction? Fun read. "Nicotine is a fowl mistress and she'll cut ya." "Smoking is not you." (a stray inquirer on that forum) |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2016 12:07:54 GMT -5
I have zero experience with this so what follows is smelly BS, as opposed to fresh smelling, clueless BS (more typical). Concretizing means envisioning a multi-sensory you -- yes, all imagination. But trying to imagine what it sounds, feels, smells, taste's like to be that you that doesn't smoke. ...just did a spot of research to fortify my smelly BS and found this, a discussion on the problem of not being able to imagine not smoking. It would seem that 'the inability to imagine not smoking' is a phenomena in itself. Perhaps a bit of minding created by that little physical addiction? Fun read. "Nicotine is a fowl mistress and she'll cut ya." "Smoking is not you." (a stray inquirer on that forum) just wondered, WHY would you want to stop smoking? |
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Post by maxdprophet on Jan 11, 2016 13:22:54 GMT -5
I have zero experience with this so what follows is smelly BS, as opposed to fresh smelling, clueless BS (more typical). Concretizing means envisioning a multi-sensory you -- yes, all imagination. But trying to imagine what it sounds, feels, smells, taste's like to be that you that doesn't smoke. ...just did a spot of research to fortify my smelly BS and found this, a discussion on the problem of not being able to imagine not smoking. It would seem that 'the inability to imagine not smoking' is a phenomena in itself. Perhaps a bit of minding created by that little physical addiction? Fun read. "Nicotine is a fowl mistress and she'll cut ya." "Smoking is not you." (a stray inquirer on that forum) Seems to me the split mind is a drama made of thoughts that contradict each other. The thoughts themselves stem from conditioning. The conditioning on the one hand may be a physical nicotine addiction, where one possible mental manifestation is the mental phenomena represented by 'I can't imagine not smoking.' Counter to that are the thoughts perhaps exemplified by the ones you chose above, which are also due to conditioning (experts say smoking is bad for your health, etc.). So split mind is a label for this drama of opposing thoughts. edit:borrowing SDP's teeter totter, maybe the trick is to throw a ton of weight on one side of the drama, effectively flinging the other into outerspace, rendered spacejunk? I suppose that's the idea behind making a big weighty concrete vision. More mass. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 11, 2016 13:31:19 GMT -5
I have zero experience with this so what follows is smelly BS, as opposed to fresh smelling, clueless BS (more typical). Concretizing means envisioning a multi-sensory you -- yes, all imagination. But trying to imagine what it sounds, feels, smells, taste's like to be that you that doesn't smoke. ...just did a spot of research to fortify my smelly BS and found this, a discussion on the problem of not being able to imagine not smoking. It would seem that 'the inability to imagine not smoking' is a phenomena in itself. Perhaps a bit of minding created by that little physical addiction? Fun read. "Nicotine is a fowl mistress and she'll cut ya." "Smoking is not you." (a stray inquirer on that forum) Do you have interest in quitting at this point? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2016 14:28:49 GMT -5
I have zero experience with this so what follows is smelly BS, as opposed to fresh smelling, clueless BS (more typical). Concretizing means envisioning a multi-sensory you -- yes, all imagination. But trying to imagine what it sounds, feels, smells, taste's like to be that you that doesn't smoke. ...just did a spot of research to fortify my smelly BS and found this, a discussion on the problem of not being able to imagine not smoking. It would seem that 'the inability to imagine not smoking' is a phenomena in itself. Perhaps a bit of minding created by that little physical addiction? Fun read. "Nicotine is a fowl mistress and she'll cut ya." "Smoking is not you." (a stray inquirer on that forum) just thought of this: you smoke when you sleep?no so you got already 1/3rd done..count up all the minutes that you do not have a cig in your mouth or hand--half the time maybe--so you already have like 2/3 of the problem solved just by a simple calculation...  |
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Post by quinn on Jan 11, 2016 17:05:12 GMT -5
Fun read. "Nicotine is a fowl mistress and she'll cut ya." "Smoking is not you." (a stray inquirer on that forum) just wondered, WHY would you want to stop smoking? I never did want to stop and didn't have an issue with it until the past few years. But now it affects my breathing - not in a good way - and as a result, my energy level. It's getting in the way of doing stuff I want to do. Everything else that's come along like that has been let go of with relative ease - sugar, certain foods, alcohol. But this is a real b!tch. Got some heft to it. Edit: Just realized I had a little amnesia there. I have tried to quit in the past. 2 times, the first was when I was 20. Lasted 10 days, then went out drinking and it was over. The second was something offered at work - a 'system' (Smoke Enders). Work was a pressure cooker, 15 of us signed up for the program and 14 of us went back to smoking. So part of the heft might be lack of success in the past. I don't remember why I tried to quit in those days, though, other than it's a bit of a monkey on the back. |
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Post by quinn on Jan 11, 2016 17:19:37 GMT -5
Fun read. "Nicotine is a fowl mistress and she'll cut ya." "Smoking is not you." (a stray inquirer on that forum) Seems to me the split mind is a drama made of thoughts that contradict each other. The thoughts themselves stem from conditioning. The conditioning on the one hand may be a physical nicotine addiction, where one possible mental manifestation is the mental phenomena represented by 'I can't imagine not smoking.' Counter to that are the thoughts perhaps exemplified by the ones you chose above, which are also due to conditioning (experts say smoking is bad for your health, etc.). So split mind is a label for this drama of opposing thoughts. edit:borrowing SDP's teeter totter, maybe the trick is to throw a ton of weight on one side of the drama, effectively flinging the other into outerspace, rendered spacejunk? I suppose that's the idea behind making a big weighty concrete vision. More mass. I think it's only considered a split mind if I, say, try to quit. Try to force something. Theoretically, seeing the absurdity of a split mind stops the battle and I'll 'do the right thing' naturally (whatever that might be in this case - I assume just stop). Apparently I've got more looking to do. |
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Post by quinn on Jan 11, 2016 17:20:21 GMT -5
Fun read. "Nicotine is a fowl mistress and she'll cut ya." "Smoking is not you." (a stray inquirer on that forum) Do you have interest in quitting at this point? Well, that's the question, isn't it? Apparently not. I do have an interest in breathing freely though. |
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Post by zin on Jan 11, 2016 17:25:36 GMT -5
Do you have interest in quitting at this point? Well, that's the question, isn't it? Apparently not. I do have an interest in breathing freely though. Did you have a related and serious illness? I had bronchitis and was quite effective : ( |
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Post by quinn on Jan 11, 2016 18:56:08 GMT -5
Well, that's the question, isn't it? Apparently not. I do have an interest in breathing freely though. Did you have a related and serious illness? I had bronchitis and was quite effective : ( I do. Used to get bronchitis regularly but not in several years(and it never slowed my smoking). |
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Post by zin on Jan 11, 2016 19:02:08 GMT -5
Did you have a related and serious illness? I had bronchitis and was quite effective : ( I do. Used to get bronchitis regularly but not in several years(and it never slowed my smoking). quinn, quinn, quinn...  (nothing else comes to mind) |
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Post by quinn on Jan 11, 2016 19:04:17 GMT -5
I do. Used to get bronchitis regularly but not in several years(and it never slowed my smoking). quinn, quinn, quinn... (nothing else comes to mind)  |
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Post by andrew on Jan 11, 2016 19:12:33 GMT -5
Have you tried 'working' on envisioning yourself not smoking? Just curious. Not sure what that would entail. Also, it sounds fundamentally split-mindy -- same problem with affirmations. Though everyone says really concretized visioning -- including all senses, and repetition, does the trick. Yes. I can envision it for about 2 seconds. And, yeah - I don't think my heart is in it because it seems so...false. Like fake-it-till-you-make-it. Not my typical style. What is concretizing vision? How to you include all the senses other than imagination (thought)? There's a different angle to approach this.... though maybe you tried it. Can you imagine/envision yourself to be extra healthy, well, supple, energetic, vibrant, fit etc? Can you imagine what kind of life you would have if you were that individual, and what kind of things you would be doing? The brain doesn't respond well to a 'not', it directs itself to a positive target. |
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Post by quinn on Jan 11, 2016 20:22:39 GMT -5
Yes. I can envision it for about 2 seconds. And, yeah - I don't think my heart is in it because it seems so...false. Like fake-it-till-you-make-it. Not my typical style. What is concretizing vision? How to you include all the senses other than imagination (thought)? There's a different angle to approach this.... though maybe you tried it. Can you imagine/envision yourself to be extra healthy, well, supple, energetic, vibrant, fit etc? Can you imagine what kind of life you would have if you were that individual, and what kind of things you would be doing? The brain doesn't respond well to a 'not', it directs itself to a positive target. No, I haven't tried it. Thanks. I'm pretty miserable at imagining, but I'll give it a shot. That makes sense. How're you doing? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2016 3:43:53 GMT -5
No, not ranting. I read your other thing about descending energy too. When Reefs was here and we were all discussing it, I said, "I can't envision myself not smoking" and he said "That's where the work needs to be done". I thought that was pretty dead-on. I am listening to what you wrote. To swing it back to split mind...one of the advantages of having this mind-created battle stop is that it leaves room for other options to come in. Mr. Gurdjieff worked with a group of women that came to be called The Rope (from mountain climbers who are roped together). One of them had a wish to quit smoking, and so Gurdjieff gave her the task to quit. She worked very hard at it and finally quit, she was very proud, and glad. She told Gurdjieff she had finally quit smoking. So then he told her to smoke, she was horrified. He told her, some people smoke, some people don't smoke, neither are really free. Now you are free to do either. i think this is a bit too simply stated--in my personal experience it takes atleast a couple of times of stopping and starting again, talking periods of each at least half a year--your body ´´remembers´´ both states --eventually you can simply switch back to the non-smoke state. When i go out with friends, or go jamming with musicians i sometimes smoke--´´to get in tune´´ with them...in order not to have to borrow cigs from others, i buy my own rolling tobacco, and take that home afterwards and smoke it till it is finished(in europe like 40 cigs)sometimes the desire sticks and i buy more tobacco---it does have effect on my breathing though, (walking the dogs, steep hillsides)so then i dont buy new tobacco and forget about it.. |
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(nothing else comes to mind)
