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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 11:39:07 GMT -5
So, what do you do in that case for the conflict to resolve? When you say already written you mean in this thread? Well, Gopal says you pick one. In a way, that's true but really, that's what you've been doing all along. You pick one. Then you pick another. The split-mind conflict is an add-on, thinking that there is a good self and a bad self. So before, you picked one but got the additional mind spin of "Oh, why do I do this? This is awful? Blah blah" or "I'm doing a good job today! I think I've got this!". You just lose the additional blah blah. Or in spritual-speak - one more layer of obfuscating ego disappears which opens up a bit more clarity and allows a more natural enfolding of experience.  Oh - PS: Yes, I meant in this thread. Pick one and then pick another is not split mind, this or that fight goes before the one single choice has been made, both sides pull itself heavily. If you know the truth, then we immediately make the choice which is more desirable. |
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Post by quinn on Jan 10, 2016 11:40:01 GMT -5
So what happens when the fight is seen, the battle stops, and still consciousness is conditioning you to eat? Or do you think this wouldn't happen? Keep in mind, you're talking to a smoker here who has seen the battle and continues to smoke. When you stop fighting with yourself, Expression doesn't stop immediately, but sooner the Expression comes to an end. You must be battling with you at very subtle level. Because the one who wants to smoke has the power to loose the desire. It doesn't do anything to stop rather it simply stops by loosing the desire. I will let you know if that happens. You could be right about a subtle battle. Or Sunshine could be right about cell minds. Or shamans could be right about entities in the body. I dunno. The whole smoking issue is quite a bit lighter for me without the (at least conscious) battle, though. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 11:42:25 GMT -5
When you stop fighting with yourself, Expression doesn't stop immediately, but sooner the Expression comes to an end. You must be battling with you at very subtle level. Because the one who wants to smoke has the power to loose the desire. It doesn't do anything to stop rather it simply stops by loosing the desire. I will let you know if that happens. You could be right about a subtle battle. Or Sunshine could be right about cell minds. Or shamans could be right about entities in the body. I dunno. The whole smoking issue is quite a bit lighter for me without the (at least conscious) battle, though. The whole problem happens because we believe something called unconscious which operates by itself, So we try to control it. But in truth, This one single consciousness is beautifully in control no matter what! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 11:45:04 GMT -5
So, what do you do in that case for the conflict to resolve? When you say already written you mean in this thread? Well, Gopal says you pick one. In a way, that's true but really, that's what you've been doing all along. You pick one. Then you pick another. The split-mind conflict is an add-on, thinking that there is a good self and a bad self. So before, you picked one but got the additional mind spin of "Oh, why do I do this? This is awful? Blah blah" or "I'm doing a good job today! I think I've got this!". You just lose the additional blah blah. Or in spritual-speak - one more layer of obfuscating ego disappears which opens up a bit more clarity and allows a more natural enfolding of experience. Oh - PS: Yes, I meant in this thread. hi i havent been able yet to read the entire thread, but i posted another thread--the descent of the Force, which avoids all mental gymnastics..it is an amazingly simple practice and i think anyone here on forum would have no problem verifying within a few minutes for themselves,maybe for some a few attempts, that this actually works...  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 12:01:10 GMT -5
So what do you do to terminate that? Terminate is about 'fixing'. This isn't about fixing, it's about noticing. What happens when the battle is noticed is mind quiets down a bit. From that place, it might become clear what can be done. Or at least clearer. Maybe nothing needs to be done - Sudoku is fun. Or maybe you realize you need some help. Or a walking buddy. I dunno. i call these different little egos my sock puppets--it helps to know they actually are different energies...what most here want to do is to jump in one go to the absolute, discarding the entire menagerie of what goes on on the lower chakras.The problem with that is, that you throw away the child with the bath water... The teachers that actually have healing power, are the ones who learned to master these vibrations instead of discarding them so what i do ,is to recognise that some ´´egos´´ are much closer to the light (actually visible as shades of light once the eyechakra (6th) opens up a bit) than others--i just had a run in with Laughter in the ´´out of your league´´ thread--i let a little bastard out for ten seconds--he gets triggered by false accusations and such...tellin L to STFU. Transforming him (that lil ego bastard) will take a while, (my aim is to become entirely filled with the divine force)--the way to do it is to accept and simply watch...and, and this is important--you can become aware of a descending energy, which, is called SHAKTI in yoga traditions, and this energy does all of the work. shakti=consciousness as a Force. So when you type at your computer, it is concentrated in the forehead and maybe a bit in the throatchakra, (mental expression,creativity)and a bit in the bottom of spine chakra(physical action)..if you run, it concentrates in the lowest chakra, physical, if you fight mentally, it is in the 2nd and 3rd chakra(petty jealousies,addictions and domination-ambition-)-the heartchakra is where the mental and vital come together and where you can achieve cosmic consciousness--realisation through (concentration is the key) a mental chakra results in transcendent (nirvava etc.) realisation. which is what most here are on about. hope this clarifies abit..It works very well.also see thread The Descent of the Force |
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Post by quinn on Jan 10, 2016 12:05:33 GMT -5
Well, Gopal says you pick one. In a way, that's true but really, that's what you've been doing all along. You pick one. Then you pick another. The split-mind conflict is an add-on, thinking that there is a good self and a bad self. So before, you picked one but got the additional mind spin of "Oh, why do I do this? This is awful? Blah blah" or "I'm doing a good job today! I think I've got this!". You just lose the additional blah blah. Or in spritual-speak - one more layer of obfuscating ego disappears which opens up a bit more clarity and allows a more natural enfolding of experience. Oh - PS: Yes, I meant in this thread. hi i havent been able yet to read the entire thread, but i posted another thread--the descent of the Force, which avoids all mental gymnastics..it is an amazingly simple practice and i think anyone here on forum would have no problem verifying within a few minutes for themselves,maybe for some a few attempts, that this actually works... Sounds good, Sunshine. Not that I have anything against mental gymnastics, obviously. What I've been writing about here isn't about fixing anything or healing anything. That would be another subject beside split mind (my understanding of it, anyway). |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 19:11:16 GMT -5
hi i havent been able yet to read the entire thread, but i posted another thread--the descent of the Force, which avoids all mental gymnastics..it is an amazingly simple practice and i think anyone here on forum would have no problem verifying within a few minutes for themselves,maybe for some a few attempts, that this actually works... Sounds good, Sunshine. Not that I have anything against mental gymnastics, obviously. What I've been writing about here isn't about fixing anything or healing anything. That would be another subject beside split mind (my understanding of it, anyway). so now i read the entire thread so this is about ´´fixing´´ ... the smoking thing i can relate to -- i stopped started so often that now i can actually smoke for a couple of months and then drop it, (usually when the packet of rolling tobacco is empty)wake up next morning and not even think about a cigarette...after a couple of days i think--oh hey i quit again... sounds a bit like boasting i suppose...i tried all kinds of things--f.i. once i said at new years eve: this year i will NOT stop smoking---ahhh , the relief !! Sri Aurobindo was accused once by the son of Gandhi : hey you are attached to smoking cigars !! SA answerred--hey you are attached to NOT smoking cigars ! this is where this ´´descending force ´´ is so helpful..it gives a third position beyond yes or no smoking--a shift in focus, and the force will eventually do the ´´cleaning up´´...i started out by just telling myself that at some point smoking would just drop away from me... remember it is just energies in chakras, and you can let this SHAKTI (consciousness-force) eventually descend into that chakra (2nd--desires of physical nature) you can even steer it with your will...or just show the desire to the ´´imaginary´´light´´(even if you see no light--it is there, or you can breathe your desire deep into the heart-chakra-even while giving in to it...-the source of the force is behind the emotional heart centre, (which is the same as above the head)and it will dissolve the desire)---at some point you will notice that the desire seems less--then you have the chance to ´´change horses´´, and drink black tea instead of smoking...for instance... recently i started smoking again(6months ago or so)--it just felt right--a strong desire from ´´nowhere´´ so i went with it...then i stopped after a couple of weeks--then I met a friend i hadnt seen for a while,shortly after that and he has serious health issues...and was a heavy smoker--he told me he quit smoking--(it was exactly when i quit, and this time it had been more difficult for me to drop it)--i realised that i had helped him to stop...in my consciousness all is r e a l l y connected--a living reality for me , luckily i do not get everybody´s ´´sh*t´´ into me anymore...most just flows through without leaving a trace--sometimes i latch onto something or someone--then thats where the ´´work´´ is sorry i hope i am not ranting... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 19:48:40 GMT -5
This is where the interesting act of consciousness comes to light. When you stop fighting with yourself, it would create the line in such a way that you would not be fighting, but not immediately. For an example, you might loose the desire to eat, So there won't be any fight and easy choice would be made! But if you fight, then this fight would surely continue to happen, to continue, it would make all the arrangement which is necessary for you to fight, for an example, desire doesn't fall away,Trust me, Consciousness is the conditioner, Consciousness is the re-conditioner as well! So what happens when the fight is seen, the battle stops, and still consciousness is conditioning you to eat? Or do you think this wouldn't happen? Keep in mind, you're talking to a smoker here who has seen the battle and continues to smoke. if i understand Gopal correctly,he is right..and the fight would be over--see my other post here to you |
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Post by quinn on Jan 10, 2016 20:01:21 GMT -5
Sounds good, Sunshine. Not that I have anything against mental gymnastics, obviously. What I've been writing about here isn't about fixing anything or healing anything. That would be another subject beside split mind (my understanding of it, anyway). so now i read the entire thread so this is about ´´fixing´´ ... the smoking thing i can relate to -- i stopped started so often that now i can actually smoke for a couple of months and then drop it, (usually when the packet of rolling tobacco is empty)wake up next morning and not even think about a cigarette...after a couple of days i think--oh hey i quit again... sounds a bit like boasting i suppose...i tried all kinds of things--f.i. once i said at new years eve: this year i will NOT stop smoking---ahhh , the relief !! Sri Aurobindo was accused once by the son of Gandhi : hey you are attached to smoking cigars !! SA answerred--hey you are attached to NOT smoking cigars ! this is where this ´´descending force ´´ is so helpful..it gives a third position beyond yes or no smoking--a shift in focus, and the force will eventually do the ´´cleaning up´´...i started out by just telling myself that at some point smoking would just drop away from me... remember it is just energies in chakras, and you can let this SHAKTI (consciousness-force) eventually descend into that chakra (2nd--desires of physical nature) you can even steer it with your will...or just show the desire to the ´´imaginary´´light´´(even if you see no light--it is there, or you can breathe your desire deep into the heart-chakra-even while giving in to it...-the source of the force is behind the emotional heart centre, (which is the same as above the head)and it will dissolve the desire)---at some point you will notice that the desire seems less--then you have the chance to ´´change horses´´, and drink black tea instead of smoking...for instance... recently i started smoking again(6months ago or so)--it just felt right--a strong desire from ´´nowhere´´ so i went with it...then i stopped after a couple of weeks--then I met a friend shortly after that and he has serious health issues...and was a heavy smoker--he told me he quit smoking--(it was exactly when i quit, and this time it had been more difficult for me to drop it)--i realised that i had helped him to stop...in my consciousness all is r e a l l y connected--a living reality for me , luckily i do not get everybody´s ´´sh*t´´ into me anymore...most just flows through without leaving a trace--sometimes i latch onto something or someone--then thats where the ´´work´´ is sorry i hope i am not ranting... No, not ranting. I read your other thing about descending energy too. When Reefs was here and we were all discussing it, I said, "I can't envision myself not smoking" and he said "That's where the work needs to be done". I thought that was pretty dead-on. I am listening to what you wrote. To swing it back to split mind...one of the advantages of having this mind-created battle stop is that it leaves room for other options to come in. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 20:12:17 GMT -5
so now i read the entire thread so this is about ´´fixing´´ ... the smoking thing i can relate to -- i stopped started so often that now i can actually smoke for a couple of months and then drop it, (usually when the packet of rolling tobacco is empty)wake up next morning and not even think about a cigarette...after a couple of days i think--oh hey i quit again... sounds a bit like boasting i suppose...i tried all kinds of things--f.i. once i said at new years eve: this year i will NOT stop smoking---ahhh , the relief !! Sri Aurobindo was accused once by the son of Gandhi : hey you are attached to smoking cigars !! SA answerred--hey you are attached to NOT smoking cigars ! this is where this ´´descending force ´´ is so helpful..it gives a third position beyond yes or no smoking--a shift in focus, and the force will eventually do the ´´cleaning up´´...i started out by just telling myself that at some point smoking would just drop away from me... remember it is just energies in chakras, and you can let this SHAKTI (consciousness-force) eventually descend into that chakra (2nd--desires of physical nature) you can even steer it with your will...or just show the desire to the ´´imaginary´´light´´(even if you see no light--it is there, or you can breathe your desire deep into the heart-chakra-even while giving in to it...-the source of the force is behind the emotional heart centre, (which is the same as above the head)and it will dissolve the desire)---at some point you will notice that the desire seems less--then you have the chance to ´´change horses´´, and drink black tea instead of smoking...for instance... recently i started smoking again(6months ago or so)--it just felt right--a strong desire from ´´nowhere´´ so i went with it...then i stopped after a couple of weeks--then I met a friend shortly after that and he has serious health issues...and was a heavy smoker--he told me he quit smoking--(it was exactly when i quit, and this time it had been more difficult for me to drop it)--i realised that i had helped him to stop...in my consciousness all is r e a l l y connected--a living reality for me , luckily i do not get everybody´s ´´sh*t´´ into me anymore...most just flows through without leaving a trace--sometimes i latch onto something or someone--then thats where the ´´work´´ is sorry i hope i am not ranting... No, not ranting. I read your other thing about descending energy too. When Reefs was here and we were all discussing it, I said, "I can't envision myself not smoking" and he said "That's where the work needs to be done". I thought that was pretty dead-on. I am listening to what you wrote. To swing it back to split mind...one of the advantages of having this mind-created battle stop is that it leaves room for other options to come in. yeah i think i misunderstood how split mind is viewed here on stf , but to me it still is two different little egos of the many we all have inside us, playing their game of ´´getgetget´´and not getting is just as rewarding as getting...same as with all the fights here--not about CONTENT, just busy being busy --once you see that mechanism it become remarkably easy to disengage mentally...or, to see how attached one is... |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 10, 2016 21:30:31 GMT -5
so now i read the entire thread so this is about ´´fixing´´ ... the smoking thing i can relate to -- i stopped started so often that now i can actually smoke for a couple of months and then drop it, (usually when the packet of rolling tobacco is empty)wake up next morning and not even think about a cigarette...after a couple of days i think--oh hey i quit again... sounds a bit like boasting i suppose...i tried all kinds of things--f.i. once i said at new years eve: this year i will NOT stop smoking---ahhh , the relief !! Sri Aurobindo was accused once by the son of Gandhi : hey you are attached to smoking cigars !! SA answerred--hey you are attached to NOT smoking cigars ! this is where this ´´descending force ´´ is so helpful..it gives a third position beyond yes or no smoking--a shift in focus, and the force will eventually do the ´´cleaning up´´...i started out by just telling myself that at some point smoking would just drop away from me... remember it is just energies in chakras, and you can let this SHAKTI (consciousness-force) eventually descend into that chakra (2nd--desires of physical nature) you can even steer it with your will...or just show the desire to the ´´imaginary´´light´´(even if you see no light--it is there, or you can breathe your desire deep into the heart-chakra-even while giving in to it...-the source of the force is behind the emotional heart centre, (which is the same as above the head)and it will dissolve the desire)---at some point you will notice that the desire seems less--then you have the chance to ´´change horses´´, and drink black tea instead of smoking...for instance... recently i started smoking again(6months ago or so)--it just felt right--a strong desire from ´´nowhere´´ so i went with it...then i stopped after a couple of weeks--then I met a friend shortly after that and he has serious health issues...and was a heavy smoker--he told me he quit smoking--(it was exactly when i quit, and this time it had been more difficult for me to drop it)--i realised that i had helped him to stop...in my consciousness all is r e a l l y connected--a living reality for me , luckily i do not get everybody´s ´´sh*t´´ into me anymore...most just flows through without leaving a trace--sometimes i latch onto something or someone--then thats where the ´´work´´ is sorry i hope i am not ranting... No, not ranting. I read your other thing about descending energy too. When Reefs was here and we were all discussing it, I said, "I can't envision myself not smoking" and he said "That's where the work needs to be done". I thought that was pretty dead-on. I am listening to what you wrote. To swing it back to split mind...one of the advantages of having this mind-created battle stop is that it leaves room for other options to come in. Mr. Gurdjieff worked with a group of women that came to be called The Rope (from mountain climbers who are roped together). One of them had a wish to quit smoking, and so Gurdjieff gave her the task to quit. She worked very hard at it and finally quit, she was very proud, and glad. She told Gurdjieff she had finally quit smoking. So then he told her to smoke, she was horrified. He told her, some people smoke, some people don't smoke, neither are really free. Now you are free to do either. |
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Post by quinn on Jan 11, 2016 10:10:32 GMT -5
No, not ranting. I read your other thing about descending energy too. When Reefs was here and we were all discussing it, I said, "I can't envision myself not smoking" and he said "That's where the work needs to be done". I thought that was pretty dead-on. I am listening to what you wrote. To swing it back to split mind...one of the advantages of having this mind-created battle stop is that it leaves room for other options to come in. Mr. Gurdjieff worked with a group of women that came to be called The Rope (from mountain climbers who are roped together). One of them had a wish to quit smoking, and so Gurdjieff gave her the task to quit. She worked very hard at it and finally quit, she was very proud, and glad. She told Gurdjieff she had finally quit smoking. So then he told her to smoke, she was horrified. He told her, some people smoke, some people don't smoke, neither are really free. Now you are free to do either. Well, that brings up an interesting point about freedom. Was she really free to do either? Probably not, if it kicked back into a compulsion after having one. I'm aware that the freedom that gets talked about here is not in the same context as freedom from cigarettes, although it may be related - I don't know since I'm not 'there'. I used to have the idea that they were related in some important way, but I've had to let that one go. I assume when we're talking about healing and manipulating energy and that sort of thing that it's a side conversation. Except there's overlap. There's always overlap! Psychology and spirituality, science and spirituality, behavior and spirituality, philosophy and spirituality, feelings and spirituality. It can get to be a maze. Just some Quinn-rambles...in the continuing quest to locate what my intentions are. The relative matters, too. How important is Enlightenment if I can't breathe? |
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Post by maxdprophet on Jan 11, 2016 10:39:28 GMT -5
Mr. Gurdjieff worked with a group of women that came to be called The Rope (from mountain climbers who are roped together). One of them had a wish to quit smoking, and so Gurdjieff gave her the task to quit. She worked very hard at it and finally quit, she was very proud, and glad. She told Gurdjieff she had finally quit smoking. So then he told her to smoke, she was horrified. He told her, some people smoke, some people don't smoke, neither are really free. Now you are free to do either. Well, that brings up an interesting point about freedom. Was she really free to do either? Probably not, if it kicked back into a compulsion after having one. I'm aware that the freedom that gets talked about here is not in the same context as freedom from cigarettes, although it may be related - I don't know since I'm not 'there'. I used to have the idea that they were related in some important way, but I've had to let that one go. I assume when we're talking about healing and manipulating energy and that sort of thing that it's a side conversation. Except there's overlap. There's always overlap! Psychology and spirituality, science and spirituality, behavior and spirituality, philosophy and spirituality, feelings and spirituality. It can get to be a maze. Just some Quinn-rambles...in the continuing quest to locate what my intentions are. The relative matters, too. How important is Enlightenment if I can't breathe? Have you tried 'working' on envisioning yourself not smoking? Just curious. Not sure what that would entail. Also, it sounds fundamentally split-mindy -- same problem with affirmations. Though everyone says really concretized visioning -- including all senses, and repetition, does the trick. |
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Post by quinn on Jan 11, 2016 11:04:29 GMT -5
Well, that brings up an interesting point about freedom. Was she really free to do either? Probably not, if it kicked back into a compulsion after having one. I'm aware that the freedom that gets talked about here is not in the same context as freedom from cigarettes, although it may be related - I don't know since I'm not 'there'. I used to have the idea that they were related in some important way, but I've had to let that one go. I assume when we're talking about healing and manipulating energy and that sort of thing that it's a side conversation. Except there's overlap. There's always overlap! Psychology and spirituality, science and spirituality, behavior and spirituality, philosophy and spirituality, feelings and spirituality. It can get to be a maze. Just some Quinn-rambles...in the continuing quest to locate what my intentions are. The relative matters, too. How important is Enlightenment if I can't breathe? Have you tried 'working' on envisioning yourself not smoking? Just curious. Not sure what that would entail. Also, it sounds fundamentally split-mindy -- same problem with affirmations. Though everyone says really concretized visioning -- including all senses, and repetition, does the trick. Yes. I can envision it for about 2 seconds. And, yeah - I don't think my heart is in it because it seems so...false. Like fake-it-till-you-make-it. Not my typical style. What is concretizing vision? How to you include all the senses other than imagination (thought)? |
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Post by maxdprophet on Jan 11, 2016 11:14:36 GMT -5
Have you tried 'working' on envisioning yourself not smoking? Just curious. Not sure what that would entail. Also, it sounds fundamentally split-mindy -- same problem with affirmations. Though everyone says really concretized visioning -- including all senses, and repetition, does the trick. Yes. I can envision it for about 2 seconds. And, yeah - I don't think my heart is in it because it seems so...false. Like fake-it-till-you-make-it. Not my typical style. What is concretizing vision? How to you include all the senses other than imagination (thought)? I have zero experience with this so what follows is smelly BS, as opposed to fresh smelling, clueless BS (more typical). Concretizing means envisioning a multi-sensory you -- yes, all imagination. But trying to imagine what it sounds, feels, smells, taste's like to be that you that doesn't smoke. ...just did a spot of research to fortify my smelly BS and found this, a discussion on the problem of not being able to imagine not smoking. It would seem that 'the inability to imagine not smoking' is a phenomena in itself. Perhaps a bit of minding created by that little physical addiction? |
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