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Post by enigma on Jan 27, 2016 21:59:04 GMT -5
Yes, the price of freedom is all those delusion based carrots....except MTV, of course.  BTW, I like the meataphor of the two ended carrot. The promise of freedom is not itself a carrot?  Well, of course it is. What's arguable is whether it's 'delusion based'. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 27, 2016 22:01:44 GMT -5
...Yes, agreed, and being consciously aware of the purpose the habit has been serving ( self soothing in most cases) and in engaging in the behavior consciously if the desire to engage should arise, the habitual aspect of the behavior falls away. I've always said that if one could smoke, or eat, (even 3 pieces of cake sometimes), drink, suck their thumb, chew their nails, whatever, fully conscious of all aspects inherent in the behavior as they engaged, the sense of feeling compelled towards that behavior/activity would fall away. Thus, it is very possible one can eat whatever they desire to eat, and not get fat...and smoke when they feel like smoking and not have it become a compulsion, etc, etc. Nothing soothing at all about caffeine, meth, white powder cocaine or even TV drama's engineered around fictional or real-life meltdowns. "Bad habits", each and every one. Self stimulating works too. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 27, 2016 22:10:30 GMT -5
Bad habits? All in the eye of the beholder really. But yeah, I would tend to agree from where I stand. If one is feeling lethargic, and that is not wanted, the effects of caffeine can indeed help/soothe that. If one is feeling bored, depressed, sad, (or any other feeling he/she would like to escape from), drugs will help them do that too...same with anything (TV included) that serves to remove focus from what is unwanted. What we are both agreeing are 'bad habits' likely initially began as a means in one moment to make an unwanted feeling go away. (soothe it). Congratulations on your assassination of the word "SOOTH".   But it was a righteous shooting. It had to be done to make herself right.  |
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Post by enigma on Jan 27, 2016 22:14:18 GMT -5
Nothing soothing at all about caffeine, meth, white powder cocaine or even TV drama's engineered around fictional or real-life meltdowns. "Bad habits", each and every one. I have to say that I often found amphetamines to be very soothing 20 years ago. I was a much calmer, less anxious, person when taking them. But I'm not the only one. Though the after effects could last a few days and they weren't soothing (hence why some folks get into a loop of taking more to feel better). I also know people that found cocaine soothing (I didn't). Sometimes I find coffee has a somewhat calming affect, but not if it's too strong. I think for folks that have strong mental/creative energy, some stimulants can sooth the mind temporarily, though there is often a price to pay for it. Folks with ADD that listen to binaural beats are sometimes advised to speed their brain waves up a bit...the speeding up sort of 'smooths' out the mental jerking, thus calming the individual. Perhaps some stimulants have a similar effect, though I don't know. Hello to all by the way, I'm not on here much at the moment. Caffeine is not an uncommon way to manage ADD. |
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Post by figgles on Jan 27, 2016 22:36:17 GMT -5
I would say, Absent 'compulsion', there is no 'habit.' There's never really a habit in the way that peeps generally think of it. There's just the choice to keep doing something over and over because one wants to. You are glossing over the reason for the "habitual" behavior though. One who smokes incessantly and wants to quit but keeps smoking, feels discord in the absence of smoking. Smoking in that case is a panacea. One does not just 'want to smoke'....he 'wants to feel better.' That is WIBIGO. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 27, 2016 22:43:36 GMT -5
There's never really a habit in the way that peeps generally think of it. There's just the choice to keep doing something over and over because one wants to. You are glossing over the reason for the "habitual" behavior though. One who smokes incessantly and wants to quit but keeps smoking, feels discord in the absence of smoking. Smoking in that case is a panacea. One does not just 'want to smoke'....he 'wants to feel better.' That is WIBIGO. I've 'glossed over' it because it's waaaay too obvious to talk about. Did you have a point about that? |
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Post by figgles on Jan 27, 2016 22:54:01 GMT -5
You are glossing over the reason for the "habitual" behavior though. One who smokes incessantly and wants to quit but keeps smoking, feels discord in the absence of smoking. Smoking in that case is a panacea. One does not just 'want to smoke'....he 'wants to feel better.' That is WIBIGO. I've 'glossed over' it because it's waaaay too obvious to talk about. Did you have a point about that? It would seem then that you've glossed over what you say is waaaay too obvious, in favor of what merely appears on the surface.... The incessant behavior, which is really just the physical manifestation of something deeper. & regarding the supposed obviousness; I would say the specifics of what is being soothed, is actually not always so obvious to the one who smokes habitually. yes, they may be aware that they smoke and then feel better, but sometimes, not much beyond that. Those are the ones that really have trouble shaking the habit. |
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Post by silver on Jan 27, 2016 23:12:10 GMT -5
Congratulations on your assassination of the word "SOOTH". But it was a righteous shooting. It had to be done to make herself right. Either that, or you had to say this to make e feel better about his perception and yours of his being made to look wrong (paranoia). |
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Post by laughter on Jan 28, 2016 3:09:24 GMT -5
Congratulations on your assassination of the word "SOOTH". But it was a righteous shooting. It had to be done to make herself right.  What?? the figgle with an interest in being right?? why .. who woulda' .. wow. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 28, 2016 10:52:00 GMT -5
I've 'glossed over' it because it's waaaay too obvious to talk about. Did you have a point about that? It would seem then that you've glossed over what you say is waaaay too obvious, in favor of what merely appears on the surface.... The incessant behavior, which is really just the physical manifestation of something deeper. & regarding the supposed obviousness; I would say the specifics of what is being soothed, is actually not always so obvious to the one who smokes habitually. yes, they may be aware that they smoke and then feel better, but sometimes, not much beyond that. Those are the ones that really have trouble shaking the habit. In this discussion, I don't care what the deep psychological issues are for wanting to do something. I'm just saying one wants to do something, and also does not want to do it, which is crazy and results in unnecessary conflict. |
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Post by figgles on Jan 28, 2016 11:42:42 GMT -5
But it was a righteous shooting. It had to be done to make herself right. What?? the figgle with an interest in being right?? why .. who woulda' .. wow. ....spoken from the dude whose interest in being right is so strong, he accosts those he's arguing with through PM to try to cajole them into engagement when they turn away...or don't respond fast enough...even taunts and insults (even when the recipient asks that he 'please stop')...anything it seems to try to get the ball rolling again...so he can get just the tiniest taste of being right. Pot calling the kettle black much? |
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Post by figgles on Jan 28, 2016 11:56:05 GMT -5
It would seem then that you've glossed over what you say is waaaay too obvious, in favor of what merely appears on the surface.... The incessant behavior, which is really just the physical manifestation of something deeper. & regarding the supposed obviousness; I would say the specifics of what is being soothed, is actually not always so obvious to the one who smokes habitually. yes, they may be aware that they smoke and then feel better, but sometimes, not much beyond that. Those are the ones that really have trouble shaking the habit. In this discussion, I don't care what the deep psychological issues are for wanting to do something. I'm just saying one wants to do something, and also does not want to do it, which is crazy and results in unnecessary conflict. No doubt, It does sound crazy when you phrase it like that. I agree. And I've observed as I sat with a friend in my living room, engaged in animated conversation, (amazingly enough) about such things as 'being conscious, awakening, etc. etc. and then she suddenly interrupts her discourse on how she is 'finally seeing things with crystal clarity' to tell me, she 'needs' to pop out the door to have a ciggy....shaking her head, saying, 'I really am going to quit one of these days'....while I sit there and wonder why she does not seem interested in looking at why she is doing what she's doing and get to the bottom of it (as that to me seems to be the solution). So...What exactly would you suggest to someone who is doing this...'cause it sounds as though you don't see the underlying issue of soothing emotional discomfort as being particularly important. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 28, 2016 12:15:11 GMT -5
What?? the figgle with an interest in being right?? why .. who woulda' .. wow. ....spoken from the dude whose interest in being right is so strong, he accosts those he's arguing with through PM to try to cajole them into engagement when they turn away...or don't respond fast enough...even taunts and insults (even when the recipient asks that he 'please stop')...anything it seems to try to get the ball rolling again...so he can get just the tiniest taste of being right. Pot calling the kettle black much? Oh, so I'm wrong about you being the one that wants to be right then? The taunts -- which you, of course are also fond of generating -- are just little helpful memento's of the times you didn't succeed in being right. Think of me like your personal trainer.  |
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Post by figgles on Jan 28, 2016 12:46:07 GMT -5
....spoken from the dude whose interest in being right is so strong, he accosts those he's arguing with through PM to try to cajole them into engagement when they turn away...or don't respond fast enough...even taunts and insults (even when the recipient asks that he 'please stop')...anything it seems to try to get the ball rolling again...so he can get just the tiniest taste of being right. Pot calling the kettle black much?
The taunts -- which you, of course are also fond of generating -- are just little helpful memento's of the times you didn't succeed in being right. Think of me like your personal trainer. Is that what telling you you're the 'pot calling the kettle black' means to you? ..... And 'the taunts' you launch through PM......well, I could tell you what they are, or, you could use that as a launching pad for some much needed clarity. |
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Post by laughter on Jan 28, 2016 13:05:15 GMT -5
Oh, so I'm wrong about you being the one that wants to be right then?
The taunts -- which you, of course are also fond of generating -- are just little helpful memento's of the times you didn't succeed in being right. Think of me like your personal trainer. Is that what telling you you're the 'pot calling the kettle black' means to you? ..... Oh, is that all you wrote there?  And 'the taunts' you launch through PM......well, I could tell you what they are, or, you could use that as a launching pad for some much needed clarity. Well, "clarity" from someone who writes "I could tell you what they are" after they've already repeatedly opined as to "what they are" is something I don't need, but thanks anyway!  |
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What?? the figgle with an interest in being right?? why .. who woulda' .. wow. 