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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2022 6:52:43 GMT -5
Losing body awareness is more like not paying attention to it, but you're always connected - it just feels a lot subtler than usual. You are aware of it, albeit not-consciously, because if someone shakes your body it 'brings you back'. I think it's best to remain aware of the body-feelings while in a subtle state of mind and maybe enjoy oblivion for a little while and resume body-feeling after a bit. It doesn't actually make the mind any 'shallower'. Another thing I think is relevant with thoughts is, usually when you have things which remain undone, the mind will tend to obsess about them more. Having your life-tasks in order makes you mentally free. Then, if you are sitting there and the thoughts are running, they don't actually disturb your peace of mind (actually, nothing ever disturbs It). Peace of mind is disturbed by mind's own reaction, like laffy says, lusting after the thoughts or out of aversions toward them, trying to make them stop. The 'cloud method' is a way of just letting them blow by as they are wont to do, and as one of my teachers told me once, 'never try to stop a thought'. You don't try to make them happen and you don't try to make them stop. My approach is, since they are imaginary, I don't worry about it at all. I pay attention to real-lived-experience like the way my body actually feels, and just know, 'this is what it's like' If we hear about an oblivious space which we are told is (some special Indian word), then we start to desire it, and from desire, we 'try to make it happen', and we could succeed in that given a special method, but at the same time we don't get to the core of equanimity, so when people discuss special states, notice temptation arise with yearnings, and understand, 'this is craving'. As Laffy mentioned, if there is pain it is distracting, but only because of reacting adversely toward it. That's a hard one, but it's also really good for practice. We really only want to develop perfection in equanimity, the stable balanced mind as the roller coaster does its ups and downs, from special state to mundane state. Remaining still minded is the practice. Everything else is consequential. Hence, all experience, no matter how mundane or elating, is only a reminder of your equanimity. If there is a long chain of thought, just leave it follow its own process and at some point it ends. If there are feelings of any kind - pleasant, unpleasant, mundane or elating like those tingles - let it be as it is. Some say 'just sit' but I think that means don't try to make something happen or stop anything from happening. That volition to 'make it as you want it to be' is coming from the reactions that disrupt the peace of mind - and equanimity is not doing that.
yes, exactly.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 6, 2022 8:16:14 GMT -5
Ok.  This meditation is about looking inward, quieting the mind, getting present to feelings and thoughts. I find it easier to do after some physical exertion. I used to do it after running. Sit quietly with your eyes closed. Set the intention to be present to the sensations of your body during the meditation so that you don't become disintegrated between body and mind. Place the forefront of attention on what you are thinking and feeling in that moment. As each thought arises, notice that there is some sort of interest at the root of that thought. Don't pursue that interest, because it is the pursuit of that interest that is the natural driver of your typical discursive thought stream, for example: you are interested in if it is windy or going to rain and you remember that monsoon season approaches and that leads you to think about how you need to get a new roof or some outside party with guests that your wife is planning and then you think about how you have to get her a gift for your upcoming anniversary .. this is the way one thought naturally leads to another. Attention is driven by interest which leads to a thought, which leads to a new interest which causes attention to wander from the original interest by setting the stage for the next thought. So instead, just hold the thought at arms length. You might even ask .. "is this thought true?" .. but that's better left for a time when the mind is quieter, and if you're doing this right the process of thinking will at least slow down. Form the intention to consider each thought as a cloud in the sky of your mind. Just give the thought time to either sail on through or to be dissipated by the Sun of your minds attention. What will happen is that you will start to relax. The impulse to stand up or to expect anything out of the meditation will become less likely, and at this point you can also relax each of the intentions you've set to get to this point, and awareness will be of awareness itself. It's almost inevitable that at some point, without you even noticing it as it happens, that you will fall back into a stream of thought. Simply notice and acknowledge when this happens and re-form the original intentions. Be gentle with yourself in those moments, as there is no way to fail yourself in this endeavor.  The body awareness aspect of this involves your breath, your pulse, your points of contact with the floor and the chair, and how you feel. At neutral, you can get present to a sort of hum, or tingling, of your inner body. If you're in some sort of pain that can be a distraction, but this meditation has the potential to have an effect very similar to sleep. In fact, if you get into the deeper states you'll be unsteady when you finish and stand up and start walking - that's actually something you'll want to account for as well. 
This is a finer energy in the organism, Chi/Qi, aka prana. zazeniac probably experiences it also, lolly more-probably. Gurdjieff called it Mi12. It shows you actually do practice. Along-side it there is a good feeling, a pleasant sensation, usually, a more-than-pleasant sensation, more-than peaceful. |
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Post by unseekingseeker on Jul 23, 2022 0:50:42 GMT -5
From the perspective of energy (kundalini), once it rises to the fontanel, piercing it and thereafter polarities* (*male and female) are balanced, the energies or polarities, descend to the heart centre, resulting in an explosion of bliss. The central vein, Sushumna, is illumined. We then get to a state of pulsating bliss, ignition in renewal, that never abates, unaffected by the external. Just like our breath. Igor Kufayev has a great video on this ~ m.youtube.com/watch?v=dPYZ64RgjRo |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 24, 2022 22:01:40 GMT -5
From the perspective of energy (kundalini), once it rises to the fontanel, piercing it and thereafter polarities* (*male and female) are balanced, the energies or polarities, descend to the heart centre, resulting in an explosion of bliss. The central vein, Sushumna, is illumined. We then get to a state of pulsating bliss, ignition in renewal, that never abates, unaffected by the external. Just like our breath. Igor Kufayev has a great video on this ~ m.youtube.com/watch?v=dPYZ64RgjRoJust now caught this, very late, will watch tomorrow. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 3, 2024 15:17:44 GMT -5
Being mindful means that mind and body are in the same place. Ayya Khema page 9, Know Where You're Going, A Complete Buddhist Guide to Meditation, Faith, and Everyday Transcendence, 1990 (As, When the Iron Eagle Flies) 2014 .......bumped.......... |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 3, 2024 19:49:02 GMT -5
Being mindful means that mind and body are in the same place. Ayya Khema page 9, Know Where You're Going, A Complete Buddhist Guide to Meditation, Faith, and Everyday Transcendence, 1990 (As, When the Iron Eagle Flies) 2014 .......bumped.......... What did you want to discuss about that quote? It might be relevant to some recent exchange I skipped. Mindfulness, from my perspective, is an uni-dimensional look at the multi-dimensional trance state, so obviously achieves little and distorted. Think about the projection of a 3D object on only one axis! For each physical or mental activity, there is an optimum trance state in which you make the most of that activity, whatever that "most" might be, which might not be what you think it is. You can force yourself to be "mindful", or can ask your subconscious to keep you in a "mindful" state, or you can ask your subconscious to optimize your trance for the activity at hand, which definitely isn't (can't be) covered by the "mindfulness" as recommended (allegedly) by Buddha, or others. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 3, 2024 21:00:41 GMT -5
What did you want to discuss about that quote? It might be relevant to some recent exchange I skipped. Mindfulness, from my perspective, is an uni-dimensional look at the multi-dimensional trance state, so obviously achieves little and distorted. Think about the projection of a 3D object on only one axis! For each physical or mental activity, there is an optimum trance state in which you make the most of that activity, whatever that "most" might be, which might not be what you think it is. You can force yourself to be "mindful", or can ask your subconscious to keep you in a "mindful" state, or you can ask your subconscious to optimize your trance for the activity at hand, which definitely isn't (can't be) covered by the "mindfulness" as recommended (allegedly) by Buddha, or others. It's pertinent to someNOTHING's post I just replied to, Tenka stuff. (This and his question is a kind of synchronicity). Could you say your goal is to unite all aspects of one's being? |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 3, 2024 23:21:57 GMT -5
What did you want to discuss about that quote? It might be relevant to some recent exchange I skipped. Mindfulness, from my perspective, is an uni-dimensional look at the multi-dimensional trance state, so obviously achieves little and distorted. Think about the projection of a 3D object on only one axis! For each physical or mental activity, there is an optimum trance state in which you make the most of that activity, whatever that "most" might be, which might not be what you think it is. You can force yourself to be "mindful", or can ask your subconscious to keep you in a "mindful" state, or you can ask your subconscious to optimize your trance for the activity at hand, which definitely isn't (can't be) covered by the "mindfulness" as recommended (allegedly) by Buddha, or others. It's pertinent to someNOTHING's post I just replied to, Tenka stuff. (This and his question is a kind of synchronicity). Could you say your goal is to unite all aspects of one's being? I couldn't formulate it in that way. The "aspects" you mentioned are probable what I call "states of consciousness". They are "united" as elements of the same "gestalt of consciousness": my personality. To some degree, due to conditioning they don't "communicate" as they could, the same way as your dream-self isn't aware of your awake-self excepting during lucid dreaming. The goal of being here, as far as I understand it, is for your multi-dimensional personality (a gestalt of consciousness) to evolve enough to become proficient to creating reality, practicing on the physical-reality. Like in the case of oneness, it seems to be a confusion between uniting (blob), and connecting. I read your quote in the context of that book, and I didn't understand why it impressed you so much that you started a thread with it as subject, and kept bumping back to it over and over. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 4, 2024 8:32:10 GMT -5
It's pertinent to someNOTHING's post I just replied to, Tenka stuff. (This and his question is a kind of synchronicity). Could you say your goal is to unite all aspects of one's being? I couldn't formulate it in that way. The "aspects" you mentioned are probable what I call "states of consciousness". They are "united" as elements of the same "gestalt of consciousness": my personality. To some degree, due to conditioning they don't "communicate" as they could, the same way as your dream-self isn't aware of your awake-self excepting during lucid dreaming. The goal of being here, as far as I understand it, is for your multi-dimensional personality (a gestalt of consciousness) to evolve enough to become proficient to creating reality, practicing on the physical-reality. Like in the case of oneness, it seems to be a confusion between uniting (blob), and connecting. I read your quote in the context of that book, and I didn't understand why it impressed you so much that you started a thread with it as subject, and kept bumping back to it over and over. It's taken me 15 years, here, to get here, so I'd rather not connect all the dots. Some things are hidden in plain sight. (That, is, of, course, a, further, hint). |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 4, 2024 13:19:59 GMT -5
It's pertinent to someNOTHING's post I just replied to, Tenka stuff. (This and his question is a kind of synchronicity). Could you say your goal is to unite all aspects of one's being? I couldn't formulate it in that way. The "aspects" you mentioned are probable what I call "states of consciousness". They are "united" as elements of the same "gestalt of consciousness": my personality. To some degree, due to conditioning they don't "communicate" as they could, the same way as your dream-self isn't aware of your awake-self excepting during lucid dreaming. The goal of being here, as far as I understand it, is for your multi-dimensional personality (a gestalt of consciousness) to evolve enough to become proficient to creating reality, practicing on the physical-reality. Like in the case of oneness, it seems to be a confusion between uniting (blob), and connecting. I read your quote in the context of that book, and I didn't understand why it impressed you so much that you started a thread with it as subject, and kept bumping back to it over and over. Then, let me put it another way. Would it not be a goal for them (the same "gestalt of consciousness") to be able to communicate as they could? |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 4, 2024 14:39:34 GMT -5
I couldn't formulate it in that way. The "aspects" you mentioned are probable what I call "states of consciousness". They are "united" as elements of the same "gestalt of consciousness": my personality. To some degree, due to conditioning they don't "communicate" as they could, the same way as your dream-self isn't aware of your awake-self excepting during lucid dreaming. The goal of being here, as far as I understand it, is for your multi-dimensional personality (a gestalt of consciousness) to evolve enough to become proficient to creating reality, practicing on the physical-reality. Like in the case of oneness, it seems to be a confusion between uniting (blob), and connecting. I read your quote in the context of that book, and I didn't understand why it impressed you so much that you started a thread with it as subject, and kept bumping back to it over and over. Then, let me put it another way. Would it not be a goal for them (the same "gestalt of consciousness") to be able to communicate as they could? Yes, as a means to an end, but not the goal itself: you're looking to learn something, and there are better ways to achieve that. Not sure what you're looking for with your question. I still didn't get why you keep bumping that mindfulness quote. But I can live with not nowing those. |
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