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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 0:44:29 GMT -5
So you dont feel your body always? Body sense never returns? no, I have sense of body sometimes. Let me explain in practical terms. Nirvikalpa samadhi is pure objectless non-dual awareness. In that state the body sense is lost. It is a temporary state. But sahaja samadhi which is my state is permanent. It is the experience of both pure awareness and the experience of changing phenomena which includes body sensations. Sometimes pure awareness is favored more and at other times experience which includes bodily sensations is favored more. If you were to stick a pin in my arm my attention would momentarily favor the pain more than the awareness. When the pain is over the attention would immediately snap back towards awareness. Imagine a rubber band at rest. This is pure awareness. Now stretch the rubber band. This is going towards experience but the more you pull that rubber band towards experience the greater the resistance you will feel because the rubber band wants to go back to a state of rest because that's its natural state. I understand but my point is you can have "Nirvikalpa samadhi" without sitting getting into meditation. Am I correct with my assumption? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 0:49:53 GMT -5
I understand but my point is you can have "Nirvikalpa samadhi" without sitting getting into meditation. Am I correct with my assumption? yes that can happen. In fact I used to experience samadhis when I was 9 years old lying in bed before I went to sleep. I had no idea what it was and certainly had no idea what meditation practice was. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 1:44:56 GMT -5
I understand but my point is you can have "Nirvikalpa samadhi" without sitting getting into meditation. Am I correct with my assumption? yes that can happen. In fact I used to experience samadhis when I was 9 years old lying in bed before I went to sleep. I had no idea what it was and certainly had no idea what meditation practice was. Do you sit in a chair or in floor while you were meditating? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 1:51:41 GMT -5
yes that can happen. In fact I used to experience samadhis when I was 9 years old lying in bed before I went to sleep. I had no idea what it was and certainly had no idea what meditation practice was. Do you sit in a chair or in floor while you were meditating? I stopped meditating many years ago. But when I did it was cross-legged on the floor on a cushion. But that doesn't matter. It would work just as well sitting in a chair. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 1:55:43 GMT -5
Do you sit in a chair or in floor while you were meditating? I stopped meditating many years ago. But when I did it was cross-legged on the floor on a cushion. But that doesn't matter. It would work just as well sitting in a chair. Okay. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 1:56:08 GMT -5
Do you sit in a chair or in floor while you were meditating? I stopped meditating many years ago. But when I did it was cross-legged on the floor on a cushion. But that doesn't matter. It would work just as well sitting in a chair. What did you gain by attaining "Nirvikalpa samadhi"? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 2:05:48 GMT -5
I stopped meditating many years ago. But when I did it was cross-legged on the floor on a cushion. But that doesn't matter. It would work just as well sitting in a chair. What did you gain by attaining "Nirvikalpa samadhi"? Bliss/Peace |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 2:14:22 GMT -5
What did you gain by attaining "Nirvikalpa samadhi"? Bliss/Peace So Peace is ephemeral ? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 2:15:30 GMT -5
since samadhi was ephemeral then so was peace. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 2:25:06 GMT -5
since samadhi was ephemeral then so was peace. So Peace is not permanent? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 2:27:40 GMT -5
since samadhi was ephemeral then so was peace. So Peace is not permanent? That's correct. Not if samadhi is not permanent. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 2:34:34 GMT -5
So Peace is not permanent? That's correct. Not if samadhi is not permanent. Okay |
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Post by laughter on Jun 19, 2022 6:30:42 GMT -5
To be mindful is to be mindful of awareness not to be mindful of an object such as mind and body. If you are mindful of an object then all you will be doing is reinforcing the dualistic aspect of knower, process of knowing and object that is known. Either you go directly to awareness and be mindful of that or start with the mindfulness of an object, but it must result in the letting go of it so that one arrives at objectless awareness alone. Only transcendence of an object will get you to non-dual awareness. Being carefully mindful of walking or pouring tea and maintaining a focus on that object will just keep you in duality. What would normally be an effortless unconscious process of walking and pouring tea now becomes an awkward focusing on each aspect of it. So you start to trip over yourself because you're consciously focussing on your feet moving which is unnatural and you've also lost out in not experiencing awareness because you're so focused on every aspect of walking. That is what most people seem to think mindfulness is. I generally agree with what you say here and can relate it to my experience of sitting meditation, where I might start with "attention on attention" that can eventually open and transition to "awareness of awareness". So these methods of focusing on an object, as you refer to it, like, say, focusing on a flower or a candle flame? I've seen those sorts of suggestions but never followed them. Seems to me similar to the sort of hypnosis you'd encounter in a religious ritual, like, say, a Catholic Mass. What I'd say about a state like that is that it is is different from various common states of consciousness. When people aren't working or entertaining themselves their minds can be all over the place, and most people have very noisy minds. Other common ways for people to occupy their minds are with the company of others or altering their state with intoxicants. Meditation is a way to an altered state of consciousness, but perhaps not everyone is always ready for some of the deeper and profoundly expansive and quiet states of mind, so some sort of intermediate state via concentration might serve as a sort of intermediate transition. From what I understand of TM this is the concentration on the mantra. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 6:51:33 GMT -5
To be mindful is to be mindful of awareness not to be mindful of an object such as mind and body. If you are mindful of an object then all you will be doing is reinforcing the dualistic aspect of knower, process of knowing and object that is known. Either you go directly to awareness and be mindful of that or start with the mindfulness of an object, but it must result in the letting go of it so that one arrives at objectless awareness alone. Only transcendence of an object will get you to non-dual awareness. Being carefully mindful of walking or pouring tea and maintaining a focus on that object will just keep you in duality. What would normally be an effortless unconscious process of walking and pouring tea now becomes an awkward focusing on each aspect of it. So you start to trip over yourself because you're consciously focussing on your feet moving which is unnatural and you've also lost out in not experiencing awareness because you're so focused on every aspect of walking. That is what most people seem to think mindfulness is. I generally agree with what you say here and can relate it to my experience of sitting meditation, where I might start with "attention on attention" that can eventually open and transition to "awareness of awareness". So these methods of focusing on an object, as you refer to it, like, say, focusing on a flower or a candle flame? I've seen those sorts of suggestions but never followed them. Seems to me similar to the sort of hypnosis you'd encounter in a religious ritual, like, say, a Catholic Mass. What I'd say about a state like that is that it is is different from various common states of consciousness. When people aren't working or entertaining themselves their minds can be all over the place, and most people have very noisy minds. Other common ways for people to occupy their minds are with the company of others or altering their state with intoxicants. Meditation is a way to an altered state of consciousness, but perhaps not everyone is always ready for some of the deeper and profoundly expansive and quiet states of mind, so some sort of intermediate state via concentration might serve as a sort of intermediate transition. From what I understand of TM this is the concentration on the mantra. yes it would be right to say that using a mantra or some other object is an intermediate transition to the expansive state of pure awareness. But it could also be said of the self inquiry of Ramana because we first start with "who am I" as the intermediary instead of a mantra. Most practices use this one thought principle. With TM it's the mantra. The only quibble I would have with you is that one doesn't concentrate on the mantra. It is thought effortlessly just like any other thought. The transition is experiencing more and more subtlety of the mantra until it disappears leaving awareness alone. When you shout in a cave the loud echo gradually fades and when it's gone there is a deafening silence! |
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Post by zazeniac on Jun 19, 2022 10:40:11 GMT -5
You are peace. But there's a difference between knowing/realizing this and thinking/believing it. The former surpasses all understanding, the latter can be a stepping stone to freedom or another obstacle or trap if it is appropriated by the ego. Then it becomes a sort of badge of merit or altar for self worship.
The problem here is not the thinking or believing you are peace, the problem is that this thought can become another feature of the mental machinery.
Moment by moment, this apparatus, collection of vasanas, attempts to assuage the ego by replacing "what's happening" with "what's not happening." This goes on incessantly and surreptitiously in most cases. The vehicle for this replacement is thought, not all thought, some thoughts are free of ego's pull. But definitely compulsive thinking.
What mindfulness does is pull attention away from this barrage of ego reinforcing propaganda. In doing so, the hidden, subtle scheming comes to the surface. There is less deception and delusion. The biggest gain is humility as contradictory as that sounds.
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