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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2014 14:38:27 GMT -5
Hey, the guy was a wretch. Don't vaginafoot around by calling him a liar. He was a liar and a wretch perhaps. I don't see why it's so important to distinguish between hiding and lying vs being lost. The guy was lost. Lost in a sea of past conditioning that made the case that captaining slaveships, transporting a cargo of human cattle, was fine. He heard the sweet melody of human voices singing, despite being chained head to toe in eachother's excrement and vomit. The music itself made the case that these were humans worthy of care and respect and love like any other. He had been blind to this fact and ironically it was the sound that gave him his clear seeing. It's one of the beauties, that story. edit: yes, enigma, you are hereby charged with vaginafooting. it's a particular fetish resulting from vulgar programming code. Whatawretch! The person who is hiding will never arrive at his destination no matter how many maps he reads or how many rescue teams are sent after him, while the one who is simply lost is bound to find his way, or be stumbled upon by a crazed wilderness trapper. If there's one thing I'm innocent of, it's vagina-footing around. Hehe. Seems to me the hiding-/lying-to-oneself perspective makes sense from the vantage point of there only being One. If there is only One then who is it that doesn't know that there is only One? The answer is that it is One playing peekaboo with itself and is currently in the hiding phase of that game. So, from the One's perspective, it makes no sense that One was lost. One was never lost, just temporarily playing peekaboo. Furthermore, if One is still saying they were once lost, they're still in the hiding part of the peekaboo game, no matter how much they claim they are "found." But I give leeway to the writer of that song, who has poetic license. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 14, 2014 15:05:12 GMT -5
The person who is hiding will never arrive at his destination no matter how many maps he reads or how many rescue teams are sent after him, while the one who is simply lost is bound to find his way, or be stumbled upon by a crazed wilderness trapper. If there's one thing I'm innocent of, it's vagina-footing around. Hehe. Seems to me the hiding-/lying-to-oneself perspective makes sense from the vantage point of there only being One. If there is only One then who is it that doesn't know that there is only One? The answer is that it is One playing peekaboo with itself and is currently in the hiding phase of that game. So, from the One's perspective, it makes no sense that One was lost. One was never lost, just temporarily playing peekaboo. Furthermore, if One is still saying they were once lost, they're still in the hiding part of the peekaboo game, no matter how much they claim they are "found." But I give leeway to the writer of that song, who has poetic license. Well, but there isn't a 'one' who has a perspective. Perspective is the result of individuation. An individuated perspective is a spontaneous creation of 'one'. Self deception actually makes sense from an individuated perspective, and it's that perspective I'm referring to. So I'm saying you (Max) are deceiving yourself. (Though of course in the larger context Max is just an expression) It would be reasonable to wonder how that could possibly happen, and my point is that it really can't, which is why I call it a game of pretend. There's a fascination with mind here, which you probly know, and self deception is one of the remarkable abilities of mind that makes it so fascinating. We tend to demean mind, but the basic functioning of mind is actually a direct expression of the creative principle of God, and in it's own way, it expresses the same beauty and wonder and horror as nature does, and for the same reason. It's all God Godding. As such, the only boundaries encountered are the ones that are created. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2014 15:24:50 GMT -5
Seems to me the hiding-/lying-to-oneself perspective makes sense from the vantage point of there only being One. If there is only One then who is it that doesn't know that there is only One? The answer is that it is One playing peekaboo with itself and is currently in the hiding phase of that game. So, from the One's perspective, it makes no sense that One was lost. One was never lost, just temporarily playing peekaboo. Furthermore, if One is still saying they were once lost, they're still in the hiding part of the peekaboo game, no matter how much they claim they are "found." But I give leeway to the writer of that song, who has poetic license. Well, but there isn't a 'one' who has a perspective. Perspective is the result of individuation. An individuated perspective is a spontaneous creation of 'one'. You there are providing a perspective. I don't see what you are saying as different from what I am saying. Another way of saying it is that the game of peekaboo arises in and of itself and has embedded within it the individuated perspective which inherently divides one perspective from an imagined other. Absent the game of peekaboo the perspective talk is moot. Self deception actually makes sense from an individuated perspective, and it's that perspective I'm referring to. So I'm saying you (Max) are deceiving yourself. (Though of course in the larger context Max is just an expression) It would be reasonable to wonder how that could possibly happen, and my point is that it really can't, which is why I call it a game of pretend. Self deception is a hugely broad category. There are multitude of ways to deceive oneself. Far be it from me to ever deny the presence of self-deception. We've been in this territory before -- fundamentally, one can not know if they are deceiving themselves. Once it is seen it's no longer an act of deception. It's unconscious or it is not. There's a fascination with mind here, which you probly know, and self deception is one of the remarkable abilities of mind that makes it so fascinating. We tend to demean mind, but the basic functioning of mind is actually a direct expression of the creative principle of God, and in it's own way, it expresses the same beauty and wonder and horror as nature does, and for the same reason. It's all God Godding. As such, the only boundaries encountered are the ones that are created. yadayada |
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Post by enigma on Feb 14, 2014 15:49:52 GMT -5
Well, but there isn't a 'one' who has a perspective. Perspective is the result of individuation. An individuated perspective is a spontaneous creation of 'one'. You there are providing a perspective. I don't see what you are saying as different from what I am saying. Another way of saying it is that the game of peekaboo arises in and of itself and has embedded within it the individuated perspective which inherently divides one perspective from an imagined other. Absent the game of peekaboo the perspective talk is moot. The difference is that when you take self deception to be a perspective of 'one', then you can conclude things like "they're still in the hiding part of the peekaboo game, no matter how much they claim they are "found."", and you can deny personal responsibility for correcting that self deception by blaming it on that 'one'. That self deception is happening right here and now, because you want it to continue. When this is seen clearly, then the seeking process takes a major hit, and might even stop all together. Self deception actually makes sense from an individuated perspective, and it's that perspective I'm referring to. So I'm saying you (Max) are deceiving yourself. (Though of course in the larger context Max is just an expression) It would be reasonable to wonder how that could possibly happen, and my point is that it really can't, which is why I call it a game of pretend. But how is it possible to deceive yourself? After all, you can't decide right now that you are a chicken, and deceive yourself into believing you are a chicken. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2014 17:12:05 GMT -5
Not quite what I meant. Forgetting isn't the basis - it's just that the whole illusion/distortion thingy happens innocently. It's fed to us and we munch it down. I like how DeMello puts it:
"You were not allowed to enjoy the solid, nutritious food of life; work and play and the company of people and the pleasures of the senses and the mind. You were given a taste for the drug called Approval, Appreciation, Attention, the drug called Success, Prestige, Power. Having got a taste for these things you became addicted and began to dread their loss. You felt the criticism of others. So you became cravenly dependent on people and lost your freedom. Others now have the power to make you happy or miserable."DeMello is being gentle with you and treating you like a 5 year old when he tells you that you were 'not allowed' and 'given a drug' and 'became dependent'. He's also given you permission to declare your innocence and plan a 50 year program of recovery. That's not working so well, so I'm blaming you. I'm accusing you of self deception. I'm saying for God's sake get off the dope and deal with your addiction. But understand that it only takes effort because you make it effortful; because you resist doing what you ostensibly want to do. Please notice the insanity of that plan. The only reason you're in the recovery program is that you know it will fail. You know you're in complete control of the outcome. THAT'S why self realization is rare, not because it's difficult and requires heroic effort and dedication. All it requires is self honesty. Well, it's not outside the realm of impossibility.  The purpose is so that you can avoid the truth and go on being addicted to your drug. The confusion is you looking for a way to accept the truth while still hanging onto the lies. Yes, it's a daunting task to devise such a scheme that doesn't leave you knee deep in contradiction and confusion, but the truth is very simple; the lies are false and only the truth is true. Thanks for the discussion.This is genuine. |
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Post by freejoy on Feb 16, 2014 12:03:57 GMT -5
Your saying it was "imagined to begin with" ...as if were a given. The way it seems to me is it was giving to us, like a program without our consent. Not like we freely chose to imagine something. The "effort" comes from finding the programs and and then somehow seeing they are not true. I guess. Edit: Also, the program can be quite a tangled mess. But you weren't programmed without your consent. You were told things that weren't true and for which you never had actual evidence. It's understandable that you believed these things as a child, but you're not a child anymore, and the misunderstanding is being pointed out to you, and you still won't stop believing what you have no evidence for because you want to keep believing. You pretend to believe it's very difficult to realize what's really going on because that way you can keep your beliefs as long as you want while pretending to look for the truth. You enjoy the seeking and the idea that you might find something that gives you what you want without taking away your self created illusions, which of course is impossible. This is why self realization is so rare. It's not because the truth is hard to find, it's because you aren't looking for it. What is it you perceive that I believe and don't have any evidence for? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2014 10:18:02 GMT -5
You there are providing a perspective. I don't see what you are saying as different from what I am saying. Another way of saying it is that the game of peekaboo arises in and of itself and has embedded within it the individuated perspective which inherently divides one perspective from an imagined other. Absent the game of peekaboo the perspective talk is moot. The difference is that when you take self deception to be a perspective of 'one', then you can conclude things like "they're still in the hiding part of the peekaboo game, no matter how much they claim they are "found."", and you can deny personal responsibility for correcting that self deception by blaming it on that 'one'. That self deception is happening right here and now, because you want it to continue. When this is seen clearly, then the seeking process takes a major hit, and might even stop all together. perking up ears. I don't think this convo survived the weekend in my teeny little head so I'm sorta starting fresh, so to speak. I assume self deception is happening right now for both of us on many different levels. Seems like a safe bet. The thing I don't get is about 'wanting' self deception. Methinks self-deception happens mostly unconsciously, without any real knowledge of it happening. To say that someone 'wants' to deceive themselves is proposing that there is some greater someone that wants to deceive some lesser someone and that both the greater and the lesser are the same person.
further: I think self deception probably occurs intentionally and non-intentionally. When you speak of 'wanting' some sort of self deception you're talking about intentional self-deception. But what I'm proposing is that the fabric of one's conditioning creates self-deception. Some kinds of self deception happen unknowingly and some don't. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 18, 2014 13:04:29 GMT -5
The difference is that when you take self deception to be a perspective of 'one', then you can conclude things like "they're still in the hiding part of the peekaboo game, no matter how much they claim they are "found."", and you can deny personal responsibility for correcting that self deception by blaming it on that 'one'. That self deception is happening right here and now, because you want it to continue. When this is seen clearly, then the seeking process takes a major hit, and might even stop all together. perking up ears. I don't think this convo survived the weekend in my teeny little head so I'm sorta starting fresh, so to speak. I assume self deception is happening right now for both of us on many different levels. Seems like a safe bet. The thing I don't get is about 'wanting' self deception. Methinks self-deception happens mostly unconsciously, without any real knowledge of it happening. To say that someone 'wants' to deceive themselves is proposing that there is some greater someone that wants to deceive some lesser someone and that both the greater and the lesser are the same person.
further: I think self deception probably occurs intentionally and non-intentionally. When you speak of 'wanting' some sort of self deception you're talking about intentional self-deception. But what I'm proposing is that the fabric of one's conditioning creates self-deception. Some kinds of self deception happen unknowingly and some don't. Thanks for getting to the heart of the issue. All self deception happens knowingly, which is what makes it self deception. The process by which self deception occurs is an inherent part of effective mental functioning, but it has been misapplied in the case of self deception. What we call the unconscious or subconscious is often erroneously seen as a 'place' we can put information so as to forget it or lose it, at least temporarily, but it's more accurately a process of ignoring. There's nowhere to put information in mind where mind does not have immediate access to it. There is just mind as a function, and no compartments in which information can be hidden. Examples of appropriate use of this function would be walking, talking, playing the piano and not attending to all the billboards along the road on the way to work. If you had to consciously attend to every muscular movement or visual perception, you would quickly become overwhelmed and dysfunctional, and so you learn to ignore much of what you yourself are doing and perceiving. This is not programming, as you can see in the case of ignoring details that are considered insignificant. It is literally a process of purposeful ignoring. As such, what is purposely ignored has to be recognized as unworthy of acknowledging before it can be ignored. In the context of either psychological denial or spiritual truth, this means that we already know that which we are in denial of, and we already know spiritual truth. You've heard teachers say you are already enlightened or that there is nothing to learn. This is what they are referring to, and it's also why there is no path and why all practices are a sham. Finally, it's also why self realization is as rare as hen's teeth. It means you are in complete control of whether or not you awaken, and you choose not to because it would collapse your inner world, and you already know this. |
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Post by runstill on Feb 18, 2014 13:28:47 GMT -5
perking up ears. I don't think this convo survived the weekend in my teeny little head so I'm sorta starting fresh, so to speak. I assume self deception is happening right now for both of us on many different levels. Seems like a safe bet. The thing I don't get is about 'wanting' self deception. Methinks self-deception happens mostly unconsciously, without any real knowledge of it happening. To say that someone 'wants' to deceive themselves is proposing that there is some greater someone that wants to deceive some lesser someone and that both the greater and the lesser are the same person.
further: I think self deception probably occurs intentionally and non-intentionally. When you speak of 'wanting' some sort of self deception you're talking about intentional self-deception. But what I'm proposing is that the fabric of one's conditioning creates self-deception. Some kinds of self deception happen unknowingly and some don't. Thanks for getting to the heart of the issue. All self deception happens knowingly, which is what makes it self deception. The process by which self deception occurs is an inherent part of effective mental functioning, but it has been misapplied in the case of self deception. What we call the unconscious or subconscious is often erroneously seen as a 'place' we can put information so as to forget it or lose it, at least temporarily, but it's more accurately a process of ignoring. There's nowhere to put information in mind where mind does not have immediate access to it. There is just mind as a function, and no compartments in which information can be hidden. Examples of appropriate use of this function would be walking, talking, playing the piano and not attending to all the billboards along the road on the way to work. If you had to consciously attend to every muscular movement or visual perception, you would quickly become overwhelmed and dysfunctional, and so you learn to ignore much of what you yourself are doing and perceiving. This is not programming, as you can see in the case of ignoring details that are considered insignificant. It is literally a process of purposeful ignoring. As such, what is purposely ignored has to be recognized as unworthy of acknowledging before it can be ignored.In the context of either psychological denial or spiritual truth, this means that we already know that which we are in denial of, and we already know spiritual truth. You've heard teachers say you are already enlightened or that there is nothing to learn. This is what they are referring to, and it's also why there is no path and why all practices are a sham. Finally, it's also why self realization is as rare as hen's teeth. It means you are in complete control of whether or not you awaken, and you choose not to because it would collapse your inner world, and you already know this. Calling it purposeful ignoring seems a little severe,I think there's a lot of conditioning involved in the ignoring and this conditioning might be an area that is easier to get at ? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2014 13:50:37 GMT -5
perking up ears. I don't think this convo survived the weekend in my teeny little head so I'm sorta starting fresh, so to speak. I assume self deception is happening right now for both of us on many different levels. Seems like a safe bet. The thing I don't get is about 'wanting' self deception. Methinks self-deception happens mostly unconsciously, without any real knowledge of it happening. To say that someone 'wants' to deceive themselves is proposing that there is some greater someone that wants to deceive some lesser someone and that both the greater and the lesser are the same person.
further: I think self deception probably occurs intentionally and non-intentionally. When you speak of 'wanting' some sort of self deception you're talking about intentional self-deception. But what I'm proposing is that the fabric of one's conditioning creates self-deception. Some kinds of self deception happen unknowingly and some don't. Thanks for getting to the heart of the issue. All self deception happens knowingly, which is what makes it self deception. The process by which self deception occurs is an inherent part of effective mental functioning, but it has been misapplied in the case of self deception. What we call the unconscious or subconscious is often erroneously seen as a 'place' we can put information so as to forget it or lose it, at least temporarily, but it's more accurately a process of ignoring. There's nowhere to put information in mind where mind does not have immediate access to it. There is just mind as a function, and no compartments in which information can be hidden. Examples of appropriate use of this function would be walking, talking, playing the piano and not attending to all the billboards along the road on the way to work. If you had to consciously attend to every muscular movement or visual perception, you would quickly become overwhelmed and dysfunctional, and so you learn to ignore much of what you yourself are doing and perceiving. This is not programming, as you can see in the case of ignoring details that are considered insignificant. It is literally a process of purposeful ignoring. As such, what is purposely ignored has to be recognized as unworthy of acknowledging before it can be ignored. In the context of either psychological denial or spiritual truth, this means that we already know that which we are in denial of, and we already know spiritual truth. You've heard teachers say you are already enlightened or that there is nothing to learn. This is what they are referring to, and it's also why there is no path and why all practices are a sham. Finally, it's also why self realization is as rare as hen's teeth. It means you are in complete control of whether or not you awaken, and you choose not to because it would collapse your inner world, and you already know this. So if we're talking Truth-Realization and the Truth that is being referred to with that is what is being denied for the purposes of maintaining Maxland virtual theme park. The pretenses by which Maxland are founded can not coexist without an ongoing process of self-deception which denies Self (insert label of choice, or no label). But you're saying that this process, the maintenance and polishing of pretenses and simultaneous denial of the Truth, is all out in the open. The out-in-the-open/wanting aspect is not what it seems like from here. But the answer to that would be that there are critical functions of the process of maintaining a person that involve denying the presence of a need for self-deception. In the same way that it is essential to filter out 99% of the stimuli in order to properly drive a car. Denial of self-deception, denial of dishonesty, denial of insincerity -- all these are essential ingredients to maintaining a sense of self. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 18, 2014 14:00:46 GMT -5
Thanks for getting to the heart of the issue. All self deception happens knowingly, which is what makes it self deception. The process by which self deception occurs is an inherent part of effective mental functioning, but it has been misapplied in the case of self deception. What we call the unconscious or subconscious is often erroneously seen as a 'place' we can put information so as to forget it or lose it, at least temporarily, but it's more accurately a process of ignoring. There's nowhere to put information in mind where mind does not have immediate access to it. There is just mind as a function, and no compartments in which information can be hidden. Examples of appropriate use of this function would be walking, talking, playing the piano and not attending to all the billboards along the road on the way to work. If you had to consciously attend to every muscular movement or visual perception, you would quickly become overwhelmed and dysfunctional, and so you learn to ignore much of what you yourself are doing and perceiving. This is not programming, as you can see in the case of ignoring details that are considered insignificant. It is literally a process of purposeful ignoring. As such, what is purposely ignored has to be recognized as unworthy of acknowledging before it can be ignored.In the context of either psychological denial or spiritual truth, this means that we already know that which we are in denial of, and we already know spiritual truth. You've heard teachers say you are already enlightened or that there is nothing to learn. This is what they are referring to, and it's also why there is no path and why all practices are a sham. Finally, it's also why self realization is as rare as hen's teeth. It means you are in complete control of whether or not you awaken, and you choose not to because it would collapse your inner world, and you already know this. Calling it purposeful ignoring seems a little severe,I think there's a lot of conditioning involved in the ignoring and this conditioning might be an area that is easier to get at ? It's very easy to 'get at' purposeful ignoring. It's just that folks don't want to because the ignoring has a purpose. In fact, there's no need for a process of 'getting at' something that's being purposely ignored. All that's needed is self honesty. The 'truth' is already known. Look at the cases of denial here on the forum. There is no process they need to go through to remove the denial. It's just a matter of not doing that anymore, which is the meaning of effortlessness in a spiritual context. No amount of pointing to WIBIGO is effective because what is pointed out was never hidden in the first place. The ignore-ance continues because the intention is to ignore. |
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Post by enigma on Feb 18, 2014 14:50:37 GMT -5
Thanks for getting to the heart of the issue. All self deception happens knowingly, which is what makes it self deception. The process by which self deception occurs is an inherent part of effective mental functioning, but it has been misapplied in the case of self deception. What we call the unconscious or subconscious is often erroneously seen as a 'place' we can put information so as to forget it or lose it, at least temporarily, but it's more accurately a process of ignoring. There's nowhere to put information in mind where mind does not have immediate access to it. There is just mind as a function, and no compartments in which information can be hidden. Examples of appropriate use of this function would be walking, talking, playing the piano and not attending to all the billboards along the road on the way to work. If you had to consciously attend to every muscular movement or visual perception, you would quickly become overwhelmed and dysfunctional, and so you learn to ignore much of what you yourself are doing and perceiving. This is not programming, as you can see in the case of ignoring details that are considered insignificant. It is literally a process of purposeful ignoring. As such, what is purposely ignored has to be recognized as unworthy of acknowledging before it can be ignored. In the context of either psychological denial or spiritual truth, this means that we already know that which we are in denial of, and we already know spiritual truth. You've heard teachers say you are already enlightened or that there is nothing to learn. This is what they are referring to, and it's also why there is no path and why all practices are a sham. Finally, it's also why self realization is as rare as hen's teeth. It means you are in complete control of whether or not you awaken, and you choose not to because it would collapse your inner world, and you already know this. So if we're talking Truth-Realization and the Truth that is being referred to with that is what is being denied for the purposes of maintaining Maxland virtual theme park. The pretenses by which Maxland are founded can not coexist without an ongoing process of self-deception which denies Self (insert label of choice, or no label). But you're saying that this process, the maintenance and polishing of pretenses and simultaneous denial of the Truth, is all out in the open. The out-in-the-open/wanting aspect is not what it seems like from here. But the answer to that would be that there are critical functions of the process of maintaining a person that involve denying the presence of a need for self-deception. In the same way that it is essential to filter out 99% of the stimuli in order to properly drive a car. Denial of self-deception, denial of dishonesty, denial of insincerity -- all these are essential ingredients to maintaining a sense of self. Precisely. You got it. That there is an ongoing process of self deception is an important point. There's no need to dig up past beliefs and find out what went horribly wrong. It's all going horribly wrong right now, and the beliefs are being grasped now because they are preferred illusions. That's why teachers point to the living truth right here and now in this moment and don't send you off to deal with your childhood issues. Yes, it's all out in the open in the same way that typing on the keyboard is all out in the open, and yet you ignore almost all of the complex muscular contractions involved in that process. You wouldn't be able to tell us how you do it, and yet you are doing it, and doing it purposely. Before we get too far along, I should reiterate that the idea that we are required to consciously acknowledge our actions and declare our choices before they can happen is erroneous. That pattern of conscious authorship is just part of the process of maintaining the illusion of volition. Hencely, you do not need to be consciously contemplating what you know and do in order for you to know and do it. At the same time, nothing is happening without your awareness because it is your awareness that drives it. The idea that there is a subconscious category of mind where stuff is actually hidden, is based on the false idea that volition is the case. IOW, I can imagine that since I cause my own actions, if things happen that I apparently didn't cause, it must be because of some hidden motivation, or some part of the mind that's doing something different than I'm doing. That whole story is false. The truth is that your willful involvement in what you think, feel and do is an overlay of mentation that relates to the things you ARE interested in, and all other happenings are ignored, but in either case, you are just along for the ride and conditioning is driving the boat. You do, however, know everything that mind is doing, thinking, feeling. You are the witness of mind that makes minding possible, and ultimately you are not other than mind. Nothing can happen in mind that 'you' somehow don't know about. The witness of mind knows of the self deception happening in mind. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2014 16:27:53 GMT -5
perking up ears. I don't think this convo survived the weekend in my teeny little head so I'm sorta starting fresh, so to speak. I assume self deception is happening right now for both of us on many different levels. Seems like a safe bet. The thing I don't get is about 'wanting' self deception. Methinks self-deception happens mostly unconsciously, without any real knowledge of it happening. To say that someone 'wants' to deceive themselves is proposing that there is some greater someone that wants to deceive some lesser someone and that both the greater and the lesser are the same person.
further: I think self deception probably occurs intentionally and non-intentionally. When you speak of 'wanting' some sort of self deception you're talking about intentional self-deception. But what I'm proposing is that the fabric of one's conditioning creates self-deception. Some kinds of self deception happen unknowingly and some don't. Thanks for getting to the heart of the issue. All self deception happens knowingly, which is what makes it self deception. The process by which self deception occurs is an inherent part of effective mental functioning, but it has been misapplied in the case of self deception. What we call the unconscious or subconscious is often erroneously seen as a 'place' we can put information so as to forget it or lose it, at least temporarily, but it's more accurately a process of ignoring. There's nowhere to put information in mind where mind does not have immediate access to it. There is just mind as a function, and no compartments in which information can be hidden. Examples of appropriate use of this function would be walking, talking, playing the piano and not attending to all the billboards along the road on the way to work. If you had to consciously attend to every muscular movement or visual perception, you would quickly become overwhelmed and dysfunctional, and so you learn to ignore much of what you yourself are doing and perceiving. This is not programming, as you can see in the case of ignoring details that are considered insignificant. It is literally a process of purposeful ignoring. As such, what is purposely ignored has to be recognized as unworthy of acknowledging before it can be ignored. In the context of either psychological denial or spiritual truth, this means that we already know that which we are in denial of, and we already know spiritual truth. You've heard teachers say you are already enlightened or that there is nothing to learn. This is what they are referring to, and it's also why there is no path and why all practices are a sham. Finally, it's also why self realization is as rare as hen's teeth. It means you are in complete control of whether or not you awaken, and you choose not to because it would collapse your inner world, and you already know this. That deserves to be written in purple  |
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Post by enigma on Feb 18, 2014 17:23:33 GMT -5
Thanks for getting to the heart of the issue. All self deception happens knowingly, which is what makes it self deception. The process by which self deception occurs is an inherent part of effective mental functioning, but it has been misapplied in the case of self deception. What we call the unconscious or subconscious is often erroneously seen as a 'place' we can put information so as to forget it or lose it, at least temporarily, but it's more accurately a process of ignoring. There's nowhere to put information in mind where mind does not have immediate access to it. There is just mind as a function, and no compartments in which information can be hidden. Examples of appropriate use of this function would be walking, talking, playing the piano and not attending to all the billboards along the road on the way to work. If you had to consciously attend to every muscular movement or visual perception, you would quickly become overwhelmed and dysfunctional, and so you learn to ignore much of what you yourself are doing and perceiving. This is not programming, as you can see in the case of ignoring details that are considered insignificant. It is literally a process of purposeful ignoring. As such, what is purposely ignored has to be recognized as unworthy of acknowledging before it can be ignored. In the context of either psychological denial or spiritual truth, this means that we already know that which we are in denial of, and we already know spiritual truth. You've heard teachers say you are already enlightened or that there is nothing to learn. This is what they are referring to, and it's also why there is no path and why all practices are a sham. Finally, it's also why self realization is as rare as hen's teeth. It means you are in complete control of whether or not you awaken, and you choose not to because it would collapse your inner world, and you already know this. That deserves to be written in purple And part of the spiritual circus is to wonder why so few peeps awaken. Hehe. (There's a reason for the Buddha belly laugh) |
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Post by earnest on Feb 18, 2014 17:23:46 GMT -5
Thanks for getting to the heart of the issue. All self deception happens knowingly, which is what makes it self deception. The process by which self deception occurs is an inherent part of effective mental functioning, but it has been misapplied in the case of self deception. What we call the unconscious or subconscious is often erroneously seen as a 'place' we can put information so as to forget it or lose it, at least temporarily, but it's more accurately a process of ignoring. There's nowhere to put information in mind where mind does not have immediate access to it. There is just mind as a function, and no compartments in which information can be hidden. Examples of appropriate use of this function would be walking, talking, playing the piano and not attending to all the billboards along the road on the way to work. If you had to consciously attend to every muscular movement or visual perception, you would quickly become overwhelmed and dysfunctional, and so you learn to ignore much of what you yourself are doing and perceiving. This is not programming, as you can see in the case of ignoring details that are considered insignificant. It is literally a process of purposeful ignoring. As such, what is purposely ignored has to be recognized as unworthy of acknowledging before it can be ignored. In the context of either psychological denial or spiritual truth, this means that we already know that which we are in denial of, and we already know spiritual truth. You've heard teachers say you are already enlightened or that there is nothing to learn. This is what they are referring to, and it's also why there is no path and why all practices are a sham. Finally, it's also why self realization is as rare as hen's teeth. It means you are in complete control of whether or not you awaken, and you choose not to because it would collapse your inner world, and you already know this. That deserves to be written in purple Ahh,.. that's very very interesting. I've been having these little "flicks" of experience when things get quieter that usual. It's like things get slower and slower and almost come to a complete stop, and then just on that edge there is a little flick back into movement. There is a sense that things wouldn't start up again if the complete stop happened, an "edge of the precipice" type feeling, but its very subtle. |
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