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Post by enigma on Jan 30, 2012 13:03:17 GMT -5
Steven can't possibly know if you wake up on 600 lifetimes or the next moment. He can't even know anything about karma or reincarnation. He only has his own woo woo experiences to go on, which were formed from his own fears. He didn't die and come back to tell the story. Nobody ever has. The most powerful thing I've heard you say is that you could have anything you want and still be seeking enlightenment. That already makes everything Andrew wants you to find irrelevant, along with everything Steven tells you to do to fix your life. Truth at all cost is what it takes. How do you know what I want Freejoy to find? If you want to know, I would say I want Freejoy to 'find' enlightenment. 'Truth at all costs' is pretentious non-dual nonsense because it says nothing about what is actually required. I would say what takes is willingness, honesty, ambition, discipline and courage. What I was asking Freejoy could potentially help him with at least 3 of those 5 things. Well, I'm sure you have a convoluted plan but mostly it looks like you keep pointing him away from what he says he wants while trying to get at what he REALLY wants. You don't want enlightenment and I don't think you want it for him either. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 30, 2012 13:16:42 GMT -5
Kind of. So, in your ideal scenario you are enlightened and you are a 'cause' of help through your enlightenment....can you describe to me what you are imagining about the experience of being enlightened that is so good? i.e what is it you are really wanting from that experience that you dont have now? Actually I always thought after enlighenment I wouldn't need this ideal scenario. But it sure sounds good to me now. I was hunting ginseng once in the mountains and followed this hollow up the mountain and found this waterfall. Then went on up and around and this big cliff with a breathtaking view of the valley. You could see for miles. No houses in the valley. Some of the woods were cleared out for my runway. It was perfect and I know where it is. Nice gravel road frontage too. ;D But for your question. I would have understanding, wisdom, and oneness with all things and great sex ;D. And the experience of raising a child too. Just lots of experiences. You gunna make it happen? So...your answer....you would have understanding, wisdom and oneness with all things (and great sex).....what would having THESE things give you?... Peel away the layers, and get really really clear about what you want to experience that you are not experiencing now. I cant make your dreams happen, though if you took the right steps you could have what you wanted. Getting clear about what you want is a right step (and I would say the meditations that you were given is a right step). But the getting clear has to be done with sincerity, and you have been a little lacking in that department on occasion. It might be worth being aware that when we receive what we dream of, we actually receive MORE that we imagine....these visualizations are low potential representations. Some people attach to their visualizations and want things to turn out exactly as they imagine. Its a problem, but not one that you would have I doubt. I guess what Im saying is....I doubt you will need airplanes where you are going ;D |
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Post by andrew on Jan 30, 2012 13:23:45 GMT -5
How do you know what I want Freejoy to find? If you want to know, I would say I want Freejoy to 'find' enlightenment. 'Truth at all costs' is pretentious non-dual nonsense because it says nothing about what is actually required. I would say what takes is willingness, honesty, ambition, discipline and courage. What I was asking Freejoy could potentially help him with at least 3 of those 5 things. Well, I'm sure you have a convoluted plan but mostly it looks like you keep pointing him away from what he says he wants while trying to get at what he REALLY wants. You don't want enlightenment and I don't think you want it for him either. No, I totally respect the fact that he wants enlightenment, Im just trying to help him and me understand what he wants from enlightenment/why he wants it....so your assumption is a bit of a false mind-read on your behalf. |
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Post by angela on Jan 30, 2012 13:41:44 GMT -5
peter and sharon.... thank you kindly for your perspective a few posts back. i was lying awake last night having feelings about this thread, about freejoy and everyone here. and i realized what real genuine love i have for everyone here.... so grateful.
freejoy, whatever it may mean, i got you in my prayers, brother. keeping a smile in my backpack for you, when you want to borrow one.
with love.
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Post by andrew on Jan 30, 2012 15:01:12 GMT -5
So...your answer....you would have understanding, wisdom and oneness with all things (and great sex).....what would having THESE things give you?... Peel away the layers, and get really really clear about what you want to experience that you are not experiencing now.I cant make your dreams happen, though if you took the right steps you could have what you wanted. Getting clear about what you want is a right step (and I would say the meditations that you were given is a right step). But the getting clear has to be done with sincerity, and you have been a little lacking in that department on occasion. It might be worth being aware that when we receive what we dream of, we actually receive MORE that we imagine....these visualizations are low potential representations. Some people attach to their visualizations and want things to turn out exactly as they imagine. Its a problem, but not one that you would have I doubt. I guess what Im saying is....I doubt you will need airplanes where you are going ;D Those things will help me do right-action. Right action will help me make sure my brother goes to heaven (however you want to define it) and all his children too and my whole family. I love my brother very much. We argue, I use to beat him up when I was growing up. He is a year and a half younger than me. He is a eight month baby. I am his father figure. I beat him up because we didn't have much super vision. I was told to take care of him. But I abused him sometimes. He had some learning problems and anger problems. He is my first job! I'll have to think about some more. So you want to be enlightened so that you can take right action, and it sounds like you want to take right action so that you can resolve some guilt about stuff that happened in the past. Is that right? What Im thinking is that it might be helpful to resolve the guilt so that you CAN be enlightened. From the little you have said, it sounds like you didnt have an easy upbringing. Have you ever talked about this with your brother, told him you feel bad about what happened? Aside from wanting to resolve some guilt, is there any other reason you want to take right action? |
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Post by andrew on Jan 30, 2012 15:06:59 GMT -5
So...your answer....you would have understanding, wisdom and oneness with all things (and great sex).....what would having THESE things give you?... Peel away the layers, and get really really clear about what you want to experience that you are not experiencing now.These things will make me feel I'm doing Gods Will (that alone will make me a very happy soul). Doing Gods Will will make me... immortal. I know it sounds contradictory. But I want to know immorality. I do not feel immortal. I'm not sure it goes any deeper than that. So you want to feel/know immortality....okay....what will feeling/knowing immortality give you that you dont have now? Security? Freedom? And what is it about FEELING like you are doing God's will that will make you happy? |
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Post by relinquish on Jan 30, 2012 15:08:10 GMT -5
So...your answer....you would have understanding, wisdom and oneness with all things (and great sex).....what would having THESE things give you?... Peel away the layers, and get really really clear about what you want to experience that you are not experiencing now.These things will make me feel I'm doing Gods Will (that alone will make me a very happy soul). Doing Gods Will will make me... immortal. I know it sounds contradictory. But I want to know immorality. I do not feel immortal. I'm not sure it goes any deeper than that. No 'doing' will 'make' Freejoy immortal. All of us, as individuals with egos, had a date of birth, and we will have a date of death. Eternally before and after these two points in 'time', and even during the occurance of our apparently individual lives, there is a presence that NEVER moves or changes. Are YOU that or not? |
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Post by sharon on Jan 30, 2012 15:32:38 GMT -5
peter and sharon.... thank you kindly for your perspective a few posts back. i was lying awake last night having feelings about this thread, about freejoy and everyone here. and i realized what real genuine love i have for everyone here.... so grateful. freejoy, whatever it may mean, i got you in my prayers, brother. keeping a smile in my backpack for you, when you want to borrow one. with love. {{:۞:}} I'm gonna be so chuffed for you when you do a quote you know  |
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Post by relinquish on Jan 30, 2012 15:36:34 GMT -5
No 'doing' will 'make' Freejoy immortal. All of us, as individuals with egos, had a date of birth, and we will have a date of death. Eternally before and after these two points in 'time', and even during the occurance of our apparently individual lives, there is a presence that NEVER moves or changes. Are YOU that or not? I know ego has to go. And intellectually I understand my oneness. RIGHT!! Now, what witnesses even this intellectual understanding growing, and the one who 'has' it? |
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Post by enigma on Jan 30, 2012 15:47:46 GMT -5
Well, I'm sure you have a convoluted plan but mostly it looks like you keep pointing him away from what he says he wants while trying to get at what he REALLY wants. You don't want enlightenment and I don't think you want it for him either. No, I totally respect the fact that he wants enlightenment, Im just trying to help him and me understand what he wants from enlightenment/why he wants it....so your assumption is a bit of a false mind-read on your behalf. Maybe. |
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Post by enigma on Jan 30, 2012 15:50:19 GMT -5
So...your answer....you would have understanding, wisdom and oneness with all things (and great sex).....what would having THESE things give you?... Peel away the layers, and get really really clear about what you want to experience that you are not experiencing now.I cant make your dreams happen, though if you took the right steps you could have what you wanted. Getting clear about what you want is a right step (and I would say the meditations that you were given is a right step). But the getting clear has to be done with sincerity, and you have been a little lacking in that department on occasion. It might be worth being aware that when we receive what we dream of, we actually receive MORE that we imagine....these visualizations are low potential representations. Some people attach to their visualizations and want things to turn out exactly as they imagine. Its a problem, but not one that you would have I doubt. I guess what Im saying is....I doubt you will need airplanes where you are going ;D Those things will help me do right-action. Right action will help me make sure my brother goes to heaven (however you want to define it) and all his children too and my whole family. I love my brother very much. We argue, I use to beat him up when I was growing up. He is a year and a half younger than me. He is a eight month baby. I am his father figure. I beat him up because we didn't have much super vision. I was told to take care of him. But I abused him sometimes. He had some learning problems and anger problems. He is my first job! I'll have to think about some more. Sounds like guilt. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 30, 2012 16:27:30 GMT -5
So you want to feel/know immortality....okay....what will feeling/knowing immortality give you that you dont have now? Security? Freedom? And what is it about FEELING like you are doing God's will that will make you happy? This is a funny situation. For one doing Gods Will will make me happy. This "happiness" is like a bi-product of knowing I'm doing Gods Will. I guess doing Gods Will without knowing I'm doing Gods Will wouldn't make me happy. Yes, freedom. Because now anything becomes possible because there is no running out of time. I want even more than freedom thou. But that will work. I want to be wise too. A free dummy will work but actually I want to be wise and free and loving and caring and immortal and able the leap tall buildings! Okay so with regard to the knowing that you are doing God's will...practically speaking, are you expecting to be told by God that you are doing God's will? If not, what form will this knowing take? How do you imagine you will KNOW you are doing God's will? I agree that freedom is experienced when there is no sense of running out of time. You want to be wise and free and loving and caring....sounds good to me. With regard to the immortality, are you saying that enlightened people are immortal and unenlightened people are not, or are you saying that enlightened people feel/know an immortality that unenlightened people dont? |
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Post by andrew on Jan 30, 2012 16:28:41 GMT -5
Actually all these dreams will change when I get my answer. There is another dream that goes beyond these. I never tell anyone because to tell it might make it lose it manifesting power. It just between me and the Lord. Yes, dreams change and thats a cool thing. Are you clear as to what this other private dream will give you if the dream is realized? |
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Post by andrew on Jan 30, 2012 16:33:27 GMT -5
Regret mostly. And love. I don't really feel guilty because I was just a child myself. But it still hurt him. Love, yes, but I think also the regret here is guilt. Have you said sorry, even if its just in your heart? Even though you know you were just a child yourself, sometimes its good to say sorry. It helps us to heal. |
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Post by relinquish on Jan 30, 2012 16:40:28 GMT -5
RIGHT!! Now, what witnesses even this intellectual understanding growing, and the one who 'has' it? This question is worth meditating on. Indeed  |
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