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Post by zendancer on Sept 19, 2011 6:14:54 GMT -5
I think what 1HC was really asking is when did people's search for truth and understanding begin? Yes, as soon as we realize that we are separate entities, we begin seeking for one thing or another (the Lexus, eventually), but most people cling to their conditioned belief systems and never doubt the meta-truth of their consensual reality. Gangaji often likes to say that all desires are worthless except the desire for truth. Why? Because the desire to find the truth takes us out of the box and into the unknown.
Acewall, for example, started seeking when his father died, at the age of 27. The Buddha began searching at the age of 30 when he wanted to understand why humans have to suffer, grow old, and die. I suspect that the search for most people begins somewhere between the ages of 20 and 30, and R.M. Bucke's survey of spiritual literature prompted him to think the same thing.
In my case, I was always intensely focused upon whatever interested me (usually science projects and an exploration of the natural world). I always thought my family was very ordinary, but in retrospect perhaps not. I was given enormous freedom throughout my childhood to pursue whatever interested me and I was also given tremendous support. Consequently, I remained somewhat oblivious to existential issues and just "did my own thing," retaining a very child-like state of mind up to the age of about 19.
When I received a "D" in math in the eighth grade, my first "bad" grade, my parents were horrified and took me to get counseled by their church's minister, the curator of the local museum, and other people who they thought I respected. Everyone told me that colleges to which I might apply in the future would study my life history and look upon any low grade very negatively. I suppose I kept a serious look on my face, but I found the whole episode extremely funny. I didn't care what anybody thought. I had a "only go straight, just do it 100% attitude, and I was the sole center of my universe." Whatever interested me was all that I was interested in. Ha Ha. Sorry Mom and Dad; you raised me to be a free aqent and that's what I am!
A few years later, after I got drunk (underage) on a beach in Florida with some college friends, a policeman emptied his gun in my direction in an effort to get me to stop running away from him, but I was laughing all the way. Even after the cops caught me and took me to jail, I thought the whole thing was hysterically funny. I felt like life was a great adventure, and not something to be taken too seriously.
The turning point came at the age of 19 while sitting in a paleontological laboratory looking at tiny fossilized foraminifera under a microscope. Up to that point I had assumed that I would one day work as a geologist or paleontologist or curator of a natural history museum, but my ideas about the future had always been vague and indeterminate. I lived so much in the present moment, like a child, pursuing my interests, that I never put much weight on ideas about the future. That afternoon in the lab, however, I remember pushing back from the bench and thinking, "Hmmmm, is this what I'm going to be doing for the rest of my life, studying and classifying rocks?" For some reason that course of life suddenly no longer seemed sufficiently meaningful. I didn't know it then, but I was losing my simple-minded child-like interaction with reality and entering the arid wasteland of intellectual reflection. Soon afterward, I was spending most of my time thinking about thinking and thinking about meaning-of life issues, and within one year I was totally consumed by the search for truth and understanding. I had embarked upon the most amazing journey of self-discovery that any human can take.
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Post by ernie on Sept 19, 2011 10:34:16 GMT -5
Thirty one years old (late bloomer), and standing in a check-out line to purchase a dozen Titleist balata golf balls at a retail golf shop. As the line became shorter I found myself next to a rotating book rack, and two books practically jumped off the rack at me. Super Joy, by Paul Pearsall, and, Zen in the Art of Archery, by Eugen Herrigel. So I purchased them. They still reside in the bookcase behind me. The first two steps on the journey...
For those of you wondering about the fate of the Titleists, I say, "Why?" ;D
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Post by tathagata on Sept 19, 2011 12:28:46 GMT -5
Wonderful post Zen.
One of my first memories was becoming aware that i was thinking words in my head and wondering where that was coming from and if other people did that to. I remember having a conversation with my mom about it...I was probably three...so I think I was always interested in why people think and do the things they do...my childhood was also kind of "free range" like Zen's....but for differant reasons LOL...my parents were both substance abusers so they were alternately neglectful or abusive, and like most kids growing up in that enviornment you become very sensitive to the nature of peoples thoughts and actions, usually for pre-emptive self defense LOL....my dad was a lead singer in a rock and roll band and lived the rock and roll lifestyle....when i was around 22 I found that I was following in his footsteps...I.e. lots of wine women and sex couched in an artistic lifestyle LOL...so I became very aware of habits and addiction and the idea of not following an automated set course...I dove headlong into the inner spiritual pusrsuits that I had been lightly playing with for a few years by then....I reinvented myself as a successful businessman and management consultant/analyst while living the spiritual meditative life....what followed was a close to 20 year voyage of self de-invention and re-invention and ultimately a great surrendering.
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Post by ernie on Sept 19, 2011 12:35:29 GMT -5
Zen and the Art of the Swing Plane - surely a bestseller, should someone care to write it. lol Fore! popee I'm pretty sure that was the reason I bought the Zen in the Art of Archery, to improve my golf swing. LoL!! But, of course, Life had different ideas about the purpose for the purchase of the book. It was a fascinating read, and a gradual process of becoming aware of how being present and experiencing presence are one and the same, and neither required effort. As the arrow looses itself effortlessly in the fullness of the moment within the relaxed grasp of the skilled archer, so does the golf swing as each distracting activity is gently let go of, and the swing takes on its own shape once seeing the shot from a relaxed, natural state. Nothing is more relaxed than the self.  tath Nicely shared. |
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Post by ernie on Sept 19, 2011 14:12:30 GMT -5
Yeah ernie, it's easy to see Zen in action, whether swinging a club, or just washing the dishes. Fluid, effortless action/non-action, when resistance (generally thought) is absent. Excuse my silliness, I'm beginning to lose my desire for seriousness. popee I hear ya. I apologize for whatever seriousness is within the post. Seriousness kinda pisses me off these days. Why, just this morning I found myself in a fit of pique and unleashed a barrage which went like this... God, who are you? Why do you remain silent before the insanity of some believers and do nothing to calm the doubts of skeptics? Why do you disguise your will as the laws of physics and conceal your designs as simply random events? Your silence unnerves me at times, and, and, this rise of Rick Perry....there's no explanation for that crap! Well, since our little conversation it's been steadily raining, my clubs are in the basement, and Fall is drawing near. Rather churlish on Its part, if I may be so bold to say so. ;D |
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Post by ernie on Sept 19, 2011 15:54:57 GMT -5
Good points, all, popee. They're not usually very sturdy at all. It's almost always a matter of rejecting some things and choosing others. But, Rick? C'mon, G_d, lighten up!
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Post by onehandclapping on Sept 20, 2011 3:02:46 GMT -5
Andrew you sound hopeful about this next generation. I watch what they are growing up idolizing I.E. Jersey shore. And I'm fearful! Hahaha Hahaha I know what you mean! I might be wrong, but what I see is a big increase in spiritual interest. And I kind of think....if Im doing this stuff and Im really just a pretty regular guy with regular parents from a regular background....then anyone can do it! I get the feeling that it may not be quite so apparent in the US because its such a big spread out place, but here in the UK, 'spirituality' has infiltrated popular culture. Alternative therapies, complimentary medicine, holistic practices....its all kind of the norm these days here I think. Or at the very least, its not considered to be a total joke anymore! If only y'all had some better food I might be interested in moving there to join the awakening! Hahaha! Although I do love Chef Ramsay and all of his recipes. Freaking talented. I don't know even if you stuck us all in Rhode Island if it would become apparent. I do think that because you guys are in such close proximity to each other that maybe your collective social ego might weigh on each individual more. You can't escape all the egos so everyone is forced into submission. Haha! Here in the US, we just hole up in our own little worlds when we don't want to deal with other people. |
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Post by andrew on Sept 20, 2011 8:22:10 GMT -5
Hahaha I know what you mean! I might be wrong, but what I see is a big increase in spiritual interest. And I kind of think....if Im doing this stuff and Im really just a pretty regular guy with regular parents from a regular background....then anyone can do it! I get the feeling that it may not be quite so apparent in the US because its such a big spread out place, but here in the UK, 'spirituality' has infiltrated popular culture. Alternative therapies, complimentary medicine, holistic practices....its all kind of the norm these days here I think. Or at the very least, its not considered to be a total joke anymore! If only y'all had some better food I might be interested in moving there to join the awakening! Hahaha! Although I do love Chef Ramsay and all of his recipes. Freaking talented. I don't know even if you stuck us all in Rhode Island if it would become apparent. I do think that because you guys are in such close proximity to each other that maybe your collective social ego might weigh on each individual more. You can't escape all the egos so everyone is forced into submission. Haha! Here in the US, we just hole up in our own little worlds when we don't want to deal with other people. Haha you mean you dont like jellied eels and deep fried mars bars?! I agree that the proximity thing makes a big difference. The culture here is a lot more homogenous than in the US (my wife is American). I have travelled quite a bit in America and going from one state to another is sometimes like going to a different country. Here in the UK an idea only really takes hold in one area if it takes hold everywhere, which is kind of cool in one way, but also kind of limiting in another. There have been times when I have found myself longing for the physical openness of America and Canada, and then there are times when I look at how generally open minded the British are, and I am appreciative of my home country even if we are packed into a small space. Incidentally, my wife comes from a church background originally and a lot of her friends on facebook from the church seem to be questioning their religion and shifting to a broader spiritual approach. I dont know if that is just Jenn's friends or if that is symptomatic of something wider happening in the US. |
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Post by onehandclapping on Sept 20, 2011 10:23:03 GMT -5
No I would have to agree that something is shifting. I just don't know if it's towards the pathless path for most. America has most def taken to getting away from religion with the new generations coming up. But I think it might have been replaced with a stronger sense of "me vs the world" than religion had induced. Will this lead to more flowerings? Eckhart believes so. I guess it's got to lead somewhere. But I'll hold off and take a "wait and see" approach.
Here's hoping you are right though! Cheers!
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Post by vacant on Sept 20, 2011 14:52:35 GMT -5
On another level it can be said that no issues can be avoided because we get precisely what we need in order to transcend our own boundaries. Experience, then, becomes an expression of those boundaries rather than the cause of them. รด so well observed... and said. |
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Post by vacant on Sept 20, 2011 15:01:56 GMT -5
Yeah ernie, it's easy to see Zen in action, whether swinging a club, or just washing the dishes. Fluid, effortless action/non-action, when resistance (generally thought) is absent. Excuse my silliness, I'm beginning to lose my desire for seriousness. popee I hear ya. I apologize for whatever seriousness is within the post. Seriousness kinda pisses me off these days. Why, just this morning I found myself in a fit of pique and unleashed a barrage which went like this... God, who are you? Why do you remain silent before the insanity of some believers and do nothing to calm the doubts of skeptics? Why do you disguise your will as the laws of physics and conceal your designs as simply random events? Your silence unnerves me at times, and, and, this rise of Rick Perry....there's no explanation for that crap! Well, since our little conversation it's been steadily raining, my clubs are in the basement, and Fall is drawing near. Rather churlish on Its part, if I may be so bold to say so. ;D Hahaha... uncontainable giggles! |
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Post by ivory on Sept 21, 2011 1:31:33 GMT -5
I know what you're asking but really everybody is seeking from about age 2. All that changes is the object of the seeking. 'Sweet dreams are made of these. Everybody's looking for something Last night I had the most startling, intense realization that nearly had on me on my knees crying. I think it was you, E, that made me look at this. You're always blabbering on about "noticing the game" (lol @ blabbering) or whatever, and last night I decided to look at this whole seeking business because, quite frankly, I'm sick of it. I'm in the process of driving across country for a move, and this whole time this mind was just running around in circles thinking about truth. I couldn't stop the thoughts, and I was exhausted with them. So I decided to look at my whole life just to get my mind on something else... childhood, past girlfriends, my current desires. In each of them it was just blatantly clear, I've always been looking for something. I began to notice even in those moments of contemplation that I was looking for something other than that moment... Keeping track of how many miles I had driven, how long it would take to get somewhere else, and other weird subtle forms of seeking. But then I realized, not only am I seeking, I haven no idea what I'm looking for. I mean, I can say that I want truth, but I have no idea what truth is so it's not true that I want it. Then I looked at those other forms of seeking, and it was the same thing. So, I get there, but then what? Look for something else. I've heard that desire is the cause of our suffering, and I finally got what that meant. Life frickin' sucks. How has nobody noticed this? I am fearful for myself, and feel sorry for humanity. At one point I thought, I am done with this. I don't want this anymore, then the mind kicked in and said, "well, I'll just blah blah blah instead (forget what crap the mind spewed out)". What frightens me is that I can't go back, and I can't stop going forward. All I'm doing is running, and I have no idea where I'm going. I realized that I had always been completely out of control and there's nothing I can do about it. The phrase, "Nowhere to go" came to mind and I just lost it. I was afraid for my life at that point. No words to describe how I felt. I just sat there in bed unable to sleep. After four hours or so I finally felt dream thoughts kicking in and was just relieved to be falling asleep. Now I may be jumping the gun by saying this, but it seems to me that this ain't a search for something... this is about realizing there is nothing to find. |
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Post by zendancer on Sept 21, 2011 5:41:12 GMT -5
I know what you're asking but really everybody is seeking from about age 2. All that changes is the object of the seeking. 'Sweet dreams are made of these. Everybody's looking for something Last night I had the most startling, intense realization that nearly had on me on my knees crying. I think it was you, E, that made me look at this. You're always blabbering on about "noticing the game" (lol @ blabbering) or whatever, and last night I decided to look at this whole seeking business because, quite frankly, I'm sick of it. I'm in the process of driving across country for a move, and this whole time this mind was just running around in circles thinking about truth. I couldn't stop the thoughts, and I was exhausted with them. So I decided to look at my whole life just to get my mind on something else... childhood, past girlfriends, my current desires. In each of them it was just blatantly clear, I've always been looking for something. I began to notice even in those moments of contemplation that I was looking for something other than that moment... Keeping track of how many miles I had driven, how long it would take to get somewhere else, and other weird subtle forms of seeking. But then I realized, not only am I seeking, I haven no idea what I'm looking for. I mean, I can say that I want truth, but I have no idea what truth is so it's not true that I want it. Then I looked at those other forms of seeking, and it was the same thing. So, I get there, but then what? Look for something else. I've heard that desire is the cause of our suffering, and I finally got what that meant. Life frickin' sucks. How has nobody noticed this? I am fearful for myself, and feel sorry for humanity. At one point I thought, I am done with this. I don't want this anymore, then the mind kicked in and said, "well, I'll just blah blah blah instead (forget what crap the mind spewed out)". What frightens me is that I can't go back, and I can't stop going forward. All I'm doing is running, and I have no idea where I'm going. I realized that I had always been completely out of control and there's nothing I can do about it. The phrase, "Nowhere to go" came to mind and I just lost it. I was afraid for my life at that point. No words to describe how I felt. I just sat there in bed unable to sleep. After four hours or so I finally felt dream thoughts kicking in and was just relieved to be falling asleep. Now I may be jumping the gun by saying this, but it seems to me that this ain't a search for something... this is about realizing there is nothing to find. Same thing, really, but mind loves a good goose chase. A child plays in a sand box happily moving sand around. It fills up a bucket and dumps it out. There is no time or space. There is nothing to do, nowhere to go, nothing to get, and no one who exists separately from the activity. There is not even activity. Words like "happy," peaceful," and "content" have no meaning. There is just emptiness that is not emptiness playfully shifting sand. The sage's sandbox if simply bigger. Absorbed in Presence, thoughts drifting unimportantly in the background, ideas of attainment gone, the flow of life is "just like this." Row row row your boat Gently down the stream Merrily merrily merrily merrily Life is but a dream. Seeing the truth brings tears of joy, endless gratitude, and boundless love. |
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Post by sherry on Sept 21, 2011 6:39:33 GMT -5
[quote author=enigma board=misc thread=1665 post=24278 time=131627782 Now I may be jumping the gun by saying this, but it seems to me that this ain't a search for something... this is about realizing there is nothing to find.
I like the way A Course in Miracles labels the goal of the world the ego built as 'seek but do not find'.....
the constant seeking motion moves us away from the quiet truth that lies within us
we run hither and yon caught up in this thought and that thought, blinded by fear
when we realize that experiencing 'chopping wood and carrying water' from the 'here and now' is the full plate of joy, we're free to revel in the unlimited peace of our own being |
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Post by zendancer on Sept 21, 2011 6:52:45 GMT -5
[quote author=enigma board=misc thread=1665 post=24278 time=131627782 Now I may be jumping the gun by saying this, but it seems to me that this ain't a search for something... this is about realizing there is nothing to find.
I like the way A Course in Miracles labels the goal of the world the ego built as 'seek but do not find'.....
the constant seeking motion moves us away from the quiet truth that lies within us
we run hither and yon caught up in this thought and that thought, blinded by fear
when we realize that experiencing 'chopping wood and carrying water' from the 'here and now' is the full plate of joy, we're free to revel in the unlimited peace of our own being |
Beautifully said. |
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