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Post by andrew on Sept 28, 2011 3:28:10 GMT -5
Or to put another way, 'wanting' is object consciousness (in which we turn what is essentially nothing into something and then try and possess it), and 'desire' is relationship consciousness. Im not talking about specific relationships between 2 people, Im talking about the way we relate to life as a whole. When we swap from object consciousness to relationship consciousness (or from 'wanting' to 'desire') we relate to life in joy and gratitude, which is perhaps a reflection, or an embodiment, of the way that the Creator relates to the Created (and the absolute relates to the relative).
Acknowledging our wants though is very helpful. When we acknowledge them (and take responsibility for them) the opportunity is there to purify them and see through the want to the desire beneath. We see through the object to the relationship.
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Post by ernie on Sept 28, 2011 7:17:56 GMT -5
Might be a good question to ask about mind in general. Agreed. |
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Post by jasonl on Sept 28, 2011 8:13:27 GMT -5
Mind splitting is a thought dynamic which can be a little bit freaky to think about, which can make recognizing and understanding it somewhat, not so much difficult, but uncommon. Understanding mind splitting can rip anybody's mind wide open.
The dynamics of mind splitting are actually quite simple. Resistance is a blatant form of mind splitting. Uncontrollable thinking arises which mind delusionally believes shouldnt be happening, which places "the person which doesnt exist" in the "position to battle itself" under the delusional belief that there is actually someone here thinking, which there isn't.
Often times mind splitting seems to be arising because of "what's happening out there", but this couldnt be farther from the truth. It is the emotional body, and mind's delusional tendency to protect it on the emotional level, which lead to the tendency to resist life, which mind literally can't even do anyway. All mind can actually resist is itself. Mind creates its own experience and then goes to war with it, which of course doesnt end the experience, but instead only feeds the delusional tendency to believe that it was real in the first place.
You will sometimes hear me say "reverse that thought". This is what mind can do after a split is noticed. Like, um, Oh im thinking this or that because i actually want to be thinking this or that, as opposed to say, oh this thinking i dont want is noticed, now maybe the delusional noticing fairy will help me bury what i didnt want so I dont notice it anymore. That would just be more mind splitting, which is good to notice ;D
Essentially, we don't want to put the mind identified mind in the position of "noticer", but allow noticing to notice that its already noticing whether there is "something else noticed" or not. We talk about mind as if it is "something which can be noticed", which can lead to a conceptually limited understanding at best. Unconsciousness can be noticed, and this is part of the becoming conscious process, which of course does imply time. Any process which starts can come to an end, just not when anyone wants it to. That would be an indication of the need for more processing LOL.
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Post by ivory on Sept 28, 2011 8:29:51 GMT -5
Oh okay. I was talking to Enigma about how I wanted to allow (or something). Yet, the mind clearly wasn't allowing, and I was complaining because it wasn't. So thinking I wanted to allow when the mind was actually resisting was a mind split. I see what you mean by putting the person that doesn't exist on the battlefield.
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Post by ivory on Sept 28, 2011 8:42:01 GMT -5
Well ace. I don't think wanting or desire is about ownership or control. Ownership and control can be wanted or desired. At the root of desire is belief. That is what is being investigated here. The beliefs that keep us trapped in the mind. And yes, where beliefs lie, there is typically some sort of fear (fear of being alone perhaps).
And, I make no distinction between desire and wanting. You tend to complicate things homie.
At the core of the person I see desire (or fear, depending on how you look at it). Specifically, the desire to have meaning or the desire for completeness.
I'm sure you have seen them, the types that OBSESS over having a mate when they don't have one. They believe a mate will make them complete and are miserable because they want something they don't have. So now, almost everything seems better than this, "Anything but this!!!" Would there be problem, or suffering, if these people weren't controlled by desire? What happens if our beliefs regarding completeness in the future were seen to be lies? Our lives seem to revolve around such ideas. Everything we do.
Anyways, cool story bout your wife man
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Post by andrew on Sept 28, 2011 9:55:05 GMT -5
I agree that believing any thought to be absolutely true is an issue (and comes with fear) but sometimes repetitive thoughts that are demanding our attention are best off taking action on, rather than being quelled or questioned. I went through a phase several years ago of refusing to take action on a particular set of thoughts that kept coming up, and I eventually realized that the thought in itself wasnt the problem, it was my fear of taking the action I was being guided to take that was the problem.
I notice that when I want something, mind is involved, and usually there is a particular feeling of emptiness in my belly. An emptiness that wants to be filled and satisfied. The object is primary in my consciousness (perhaps a burger, a bar of chocolate or a beer). When I desire, it is in my heart and when I allow that desire there is a heart opening and a flow of passion and joy. For example if I search my heart right now I can find a desire there for freedom. I can then ask myself what that freedom might look like right now. Sometimes I have desired just to desire!
This might just be me though I guess.
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Post by jasonl on Sept 28, 2011 11:01:27 GMT -5
We could say at the root of suffering is the belief that one is separate, and that this belief would cause the mind to project desire to a point in time which doesn't exist for fulfillment. No points in time actually exist, so any point in time which provides fulfillment is simply mind fulfilling itself through the absence of its own movement to want fulfillment. The fear of being alone is a fear of self intimacy, as bizarre as that may sound. Emptiness is utterly intimate. Mind wants nothing to do with it, as mind can't do anything with it, literally. Sure mind can set up dynamics and cultivate mind states under the delusional guise that the mind itself can be nothing, which it can't, but something never gets around to actually being nothing. Mind never wants Truth to begin with, because there is literally nothing here to want in the first place. There is nothing here for anyone to be, which is impossible for anyone to come to grips with. Luckily nobody has to. There are no prerequisites to realize Truth. Of course the fear of being alone could also be looked at as the desire to not feel lonely, which would indicate a mind split. If the mind/body is feeling lonely, clearly, its feeling just how it wants to feel. Resisting that movement, and more pointedly escaping it, is good to notice. But is it wrong to seek companionship to escape loneliness: well no, but it would be unconscious if that was the motivation, meaning there could be something underneath that. At the end of the day, everyone just does what they want anyway, which can include understanding, or getting some a.ss  . I sometimes blather on about the fear of emotional pain. I think that fear can inhibit the mind from taking action in the relationship game played here in the dreamworld. Fear of getting feelings hurt, of getting attached, of being embarrassed, of rejection, of intimacy, etc., and in this sense mind often "wants to take action" but doesnt want to at the same time. That would be a mind split, and could be consciously resolved through embracing the illusion of choice. Regardless, no choices are right or wrong, they just bring a different experience. That might mean ending a relationship, starting a new one, trying to not be alone and failing, or choosing to be alone intentionally. Of course, youre always already alone anyway. It all depends on how youre geared up i spose. Everybody's different LOL |
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Post by andrew on Sept 28, 2011 12:37:56 GMT -5
Sometimes I feel moved to sit quietly and do a bit of manifestation work but I cant really say that it creates a sense of a point in time because I am doing it all pretty consciously. Its more as if the appearance that I focus on exists already in a timeless field of infinite potential. It doesnt feel like it exists somewhere 'further down the road' specifically. This might be because Im not particularly attached to the idea that the seemingly more 'actual' appearances that appear before me exist in a particular point in time either.
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Post by tathagata on Sept 28, 2011 21:24:51 GMT -5
Sometimes I feel moved to sit quietly and do a bit of manifestation work but I cant really say that it creates a sense of a point in time because I am doing it all pretty consciously. Its more as if the appearance that I focus on exists already in a timeless field of infinite potential. It doesnt feel like it exists somewhere 'further down the road' specifically. This might be because Im not particularly attached to the idea that the seemingly more 'actual' appearances that appear before me exist in a particular point in time either. Jesus said: whatever yea prayeth for, if yea believe that yea hath recieveth it, yea shall recieved it. Pay close attention to where the present and future tenses fall in that quote. |
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Post by ivory on Sept 28, 2011 23:35:26 GMT -5
 Right on Tat, I love me some Jesus! |
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Post by andrew on Sept 29, 2011 2:14:57 GMT -5
Sometimes I feel moved to sit quietly and do a bit of manifestation work but I cant really say that it creates a sense of a point in time because I am doing it all pretty consciously. Its more as if the appearance that I focus on exists already in a timeless field of infinite potential. It doesnt feel like it exists somewhere 'further down the road' specifically. This might be because Im not particularly attached to the idea that the seemingly more 'actual' appearances that appear before me exist in a particular point in time either. Jesus said: whatever yea prayeth for, if yea believe that yea hath recieveth it, yea shall recieved it. Pay close attention to where the present and future tenses fall in that quote. Yes, I like that. I also like this from Abraham-Hicks on the subject of ''yearning vs. desire'' www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_9zEB2Oz-k&NR=1And this ''Rampage of Love'' www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E_amc3odoU&feature=related |
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Post by klaus on Sept 29, 2011 14:36:55 GMT -5
question, trf, THIS is as plain as the nose on your face. What is as plain as the nose on my face? Oh, you mean that thingy which is always prior to and that one can't be aware of? (...did you really think that my problem is that I believe the holy grail to be hidden and tricky?) Yes. I don't presume to know what you think or believe. |
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