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Post by tathagata on Sept 6, 2011 10:54:20 GMT -5
A word of advice though....continue with the observing the awareness of the doing though...there is no reason you can't do both.
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Post by onehandclapping on Sept 8, 2011 3:38:28 GMT -5
the ego needs to be exhuasted not just stopped, and that effort is needed until the ego cannot go on and surrenders to death...if you don't do this you will experience many periods of being enlightened mixed with periods where the ego creaps back in...and the more this happens the sneakier and more devious the ego gets in hiding itself....quote] I've narrowed that down a bit so its a little more difficult to run away from lol On another note about teaching and the dream you have invented for yourself about Tathagata....Do you think those masters claimed to be teachers?...do you think they were teachers?...how can a mindless egoless unattached being be a teacher? that would be a neat trick...if you know this trick can you teach it to me, I will willingly be your student?....on another note as to questions and answers...is the last person you asked what time it was your teacher?, Were you his student?...and if you take the philosophical view and say in a way yes he was teaching you what time it was and that you were learning what time it was, then the question remains: Was he claiming to be a teacher and were you claiming to be a student?...better yet...claim or not...was anyone wanting to be a teacher or a student? Responses in order asked above: don't know, don't know, again don't know, I don't ask the time cause it's always now so I don't know again would probably be my answer, don't know, was there something to be taught?,don't know but is it safe venture that you might have the answer? I'm am simply a mirror Tath. I have asked you questions and you have returned with questions. I have no dreams about you or myself for that matter. Everything I have said to you has been what has flowed out of the infinite in response to what it wrote through your vessel. That's it. Maybe its you who have created this OHC? (Can you find three examples where this may be true or more true?) -byron Katie. She cracks me up sometimes too. So how would you like this OHC to interact with you so we can conversate? Can I say something when it appears to this vessel that your words my not be as clear as you intended? When the infinite through this vessel wants to ask a question to clarify or maybe even contradict what your words express? Or is this going to continue to be a debate over the imagined OHC and his supposed imagine Tath? In more detail as to hopefully muddy the waters even more with my words...hahaha I think you got a ton of great stuff you have written on here. Your word skills rival those of Zendancer. There's times though when the clarity through them isn't as clear as Zens to this mind body. Even Enimgas for that matter. And yes you can call it my built up dream of you or whatever dream you wish to say I create of you and me. The truth is known when it is heard by itself. Agree? Nirsargatta (spelling?) for example. Every thing I've ever read that was created through his mind body is crystal clear. It talks to that which we are through this mind body everytime the words appear before this mind body. I can't say the same thing at times with your posts. Does that mean I'm imagining someone? Creating a dreamed you because I state that? Maybe in your created dream of OHC. But it doesn't feel that way to this mind body. IT makes this mind body laugh at what is written through your mind body and respond using the only words this mind body can respond with. Words that you dream have created an imagined OHC that is creating an imagined Tath that is creating an imagined OHC and so on. On another note, one of my favorite aspects of Zendancer is that when asked for clarifing on something he has written there is never a feeling of aggression towards the questioner. I believe that to be because his words are almost always clearly speaking the sound of one hand clapping in those responses (or at least in my experience with them). I can say, from my experience with your words in most of the responses you have posted towards me especially with the exception of a few, that that was not the case. Does that mean I have created some dreamed enemy in you or is it just what is to this mind body with out an imagined figure? When I look inward by your suggestion the latter comes back in response. Do you think it's possible for words to ring with more clarity than others in the world of form? Do you think there are folks who experience the same oneness but express it with varying levels of clarity in the world of form? Talking in the world of form in these last two questions hoping to elicit an understandable answer for this mind body. Basically dumb it down for me. The word pool is often too deep for me. I reckon that's it dude. The words I wrote now fall in for the fish. [enter witty "enlightened" closing one liner question here] ;p
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Post by tathagata on Sept 8, 2011 15:49:23 GMT -5
I've narrowed that down a bit so its a little more difficult to run away from lol On another note about teaching and the dream you have invented for yourself about Tathagata....Do you think those masters claimed to be teachers?...do you think they were teachers?...how can a mindless egoless unattached being be a teacher? that would be a neat trick...if you know this trick can you teach it to me, I will willingly be your student?....on another note as to questions and answers...is the last person you asked what time it was your teacher?, Were you his student?...and if you take the philosophical view and say in a way yes he was teaching you what time it was and that you were learning what time it was, then the question remains: Was he claiming to be a teacher and were you claiming to be a student?...better yet...claim or not...was anyone wanting to be a teacher or a student? Responses in order asked above: don't know, don't know, again don't know, I don't ask the time cause it's always now so I don't know again would probably be my answer, don't know, was there something to be taught?,don't know but is it safe venture that you might have the answer? I'm am simply a mirror Tath. I have asked you questions and you have returned with questions. I have no dreams about you or myself for that matter. Everything I have said to you has been what has flowed out of the infinite in response to what it wrote through your vessel. That's it. Maybe its you who have created this OHC? (Can you find three examples where this may be true or more true?) -byron Katie. She cracks me up sometimes too. So how would you like this OHC to interact with you so we can conversate? Can I say something when it appears to this vessel that your words my not be as clear as you intended? When the infinite through this vessel wants to ask a question to clarify or maybe even contradict what your words express? Or is this going to continue to be a debate over the imagined OHC and his supposed imagine Tath? In more detail as to hopefully muddy the waters even more with my words...hahaha I think you got a ton of great stuff you have written on here. Your word skills rival those of Zendancer. There's times though when the clarity through them isn't as clear as Zens to this mind body. Even Enimgas for that matter. And yes you can call it my built up dream of you or whatever dream you wish to say I create of you and me. The truth is known when it is heard by itself. Agree? Nirsargatta (spelling?) for example. Every thing I've ever read that was created through his mind body is crystal clear. It talks to that which we are through this mind body everytime the words appear before this mind body. I can't say the same thing at times with your posts. Does that mean I'm imagining someone? Creating a dreamed you because I state that? Maybe in your created dream of OHC. But it doesn't feel that way to this mind body. IT makes this mind body laugh at what is written through your mind body and respond using the only words this mind body can respond with. Words that you dream have created an imagined OHC that is creating an imagined Tath that is creating an imagined OHC and so on. On another note, one of my favorite aspects of Zendancer is that when asked for clarifing on something he has written there is never a feeling of aggression towards the questioner. I believe that to be because his words are almost always clearly speaking the sound of one hand clapping in those responses (or at least in my experience with them). I can say, from my experience with your words in most of the responses you have posted towards me especially with the exception of a few, that that was not the case. Does that mean I have created some dreamed enemy in you or is it just what is to this mind body with out an imagined figure? When I look inward by your suggestion the latter comes back in response. 1. Do you think it's possible for words to ring with more clarity than others in the world of form? 2. Do you think there are folks who experience the same oneness but express it with varying levels of clarity in the world of form? Talking in the world of form in these last two questions hoping to elicit an understandable answer for this mind body. Basically dumb it down for me. The word pool is often too deep for me. I reckon that's it dude. The words I wrote now fall in for the fish. [enter witty "enlightened" closing one liner question here] ;p This post is wonderfilled....the wave that was always the ocean became the ocean again here LOL....blessings. Question 1....in the world of form specific words will often ring with greater or lesser clarity for each individual, as each individual is like a unique wave of the greater ocean...each wave has its own ideas and perspective and they each look at and recieve information THROUGH that unique perspective...each person often has their own unique inner dialogue, in some ways that inner dialogue often has its own kind of language...you can say the SAME thing TWO differant ways and differant people are going to "resonate" with the version that connects with their own inner dialoque best....this is why I sometimes place little warnings saying that what I've said was for a specific person and may not fit for you....So short answer, yes. Question 2.....there is one eternal truth...the infinate stillness...but it is expressed in infinate ways, and recieved in infinate ways....so short answer, yes You asked once when did it happen for me...well it kinda happened twice...13 years ago I entered the stillness that was beyond mind for the first time...that stillness penetrated the veil of movement and form and I saw that intrinsically all things were one beyond oneness in that stillness....I spent the next thirteen years moving my awareness between the stillness and the individual me....I kind of think of this like looking at a whole mountain sometimes, and then sometimes looking at a part of the mountain, and then sometimes looking thru a microscope at a very tiny part if the mountain.... What changed recently is that i stopped having a mind that planned and did within that stillness...I let the mind go, or at least let my mind let go of all wordly and inward concerns and attachments...in some ways my mind can be said to have released choice and self preservation....I use to think and plan and make choices within the stillness...now i don't....for example....I use to think okay Its time to eat. What do I want to eat etc...I would then choose something etc....now i never think about eating, and i don't choose one food over another, I find myself at the refrigirater, I open it, I look inside, , there are many foods, one is looked at, one is taken out, one is prepared, one is eaten....I don't make preferances and i don't have any notion or drive for self preservation...in some ways you can say I am not attached to whether I live or die or make the right choice or wrong choice in one moment to the next, and i never TRY to do anything Becuase i have nothing to achieve...no agenda or goals or desired outcome...I often see and feel that I am very hungry...but do not find myself eating...other times I am suddenly moving to get something to eat without ever having thought to do so or not do so....when I eat I eat...same with sleep...same with writing in here...whatever I find myself doing I litterally FIND myself doing LOL....this no self preservation thing might sound scary, and it might actually kill me at some point LOL...but I'm ok with that cuase I've surrendered the sense of self preservation LOL...as a side note nature seems to be taking care of my body much better than I took care of my body LOL....but eventually nature will kill this body... So it happened twice for me...13 years ago i saw for the first time my true nature...but it wasn't until a few months ago that the part of me that was my unique identity released the last attachment and beccame totally free...the last two attachments fell in this order...the questioning fell completely, and then I let go of my attachment to my self existance....I just let it go, surrendered myself away....no desires left...there is only what is happening right now in this moment LOL....no choices whatsoever LOL....and without choice and self preservation to worry about there is only absolute freedom.
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Post by popee2 on Sept 10, 2011 13:39:57 GMT -5
Hello again tathagata
You've been helpful
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Post by tathagata on Sept 10, 2011 15:18:10 GMT -5
a warm welcome popee...nice to hear from you my friend.
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Post by popee2 on Sept 29, 2011 7:23:51 GMT -5
I seek not to leave things unresolved. Having little interest in talking, its curious that I would have this compulsion to write. Whatever that reason is, I'm going to need to find it. So I will continue to ping the universe as long as it serves me. There is no plan, there just is.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2011 7:37:28 GMT -5
So I will continue to ping the universe as long as it serves me. this is beautiful / please don't delete it!
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Post by popee2 on Sept 29, 2011 8:06:47 GMT -5
"please don't delete it!"
LOL max, the deleter within is a curious entity. Sometimes its disapproval of the wording, but mostly its just moving on, a desire not to be associated with some previous version of myself.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2011 8:24:50 GMT -5
believe me, i feel your pain.
Perhaps delusionally, I believe that whatever embarrassing or idiotic stuff I put up here is ultimately in service to the delusional everywhere. For months I came to this forum to read the great thoughts from the great minds, hesitant to put in my two cents or ask my basic questions for whatever reason. But now I figure it's best to just lay it out on the table -- ping the universe as you say. If what looks through your eyes also looks through my eyes, then what types here now also speaks for all of the universe. There is great possibility in this.
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Post by popee2 on Sept 29, 2011 8:45:43 GMT -5
yeah max, sometimes there's the pain of feeling judged, or misinterpreted, or that uneasy feeling of knowing you didn't explain yourself very well, and confusion is likely to ensue. But usually I get past those feelings rather quickly, I "forgive" myself, as it were. Then, "moving on" seems appropriate, taking only the experience gained from the situation, and dismissing the rest.
The other delusionals can come up with their own material. LOL
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2011 9:34:43 GMT -5
The other delusionals can come up with their own material. LOL effortlessly and prolifically THIS and THAT
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Post by popee2 on Sept 29, 2011 10:22:46 GMT -5
"The other delusionals can come up with their own material. LOL" was a joke, but digging deeper, a worthwhile object of study. "Clinging" to one's material is the exact opposite of giving and sharing unconditionally. Of freeing ones self from the burden of ownership.
Thanks for "pinging" back today max.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2011 10:49:30 GMT -5
yes.
I think it was enigma who recently pointed out that the much maligned behavior of projection can actually be quite useful if skillfully appreciated. In some ways this is all projection.
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Post by popee2 on Sept 30, 2011 7:35:01 GMT -5
was elsewhere earlier, prefer it here better
First thought was, "I seek Truth". But Truth is a BIG word. Too big. Like it makes the totality of the universe insignificant in comparison.
Then words like: This, Is, Be, I Am, Stillness, Awareness, Consciousness. All fine words, good pointer words. But they are Big too. Difficult to grasp. Unapproachable, like a mirage in the desert.
So, failing at those, I started looking at something a little closer to home, something I could "do". I settled on personal honesty.
There are no obstacles to being true to yourself. Only you stand in the way of you. No one can fix you, but you.
An honest, ongoing, evaluation, is a good course. Start with an admission of not knowing. A wise man (Bart Marshall) once said, "As soon as I think I know something, I've strayed into error". Is good to heed that warning.
Look at yourself until it hurts. Then look deeper. Looking is all you have to do. If something is false, it can not survive the scrutiny.
Then forgive yourself.
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Post by popee2 on Sept 30, 2011 7:58:28 GMT -5
scribble scribble toil and trouble
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