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Post by dreamerrach on Mar 20, 2011 21:57:11 GMT -5
I say that I have realized that "I" am not, but the journey continues. I don't know if I could call myself "awake," and I certainly don't deem myself "enlightened." I don't give a damned about any of that; I don't need any of it attached. I think I know who I am, but not what.
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Post by teknix on Mar 21, 2011 0:14:30 GMT -5
Its not something to understand silly.
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Post by grapefruit on Mar 21, 2011 7:07:35 GMT -5
"I discovered for myself and by myself that there is no self to realize—that's the realization I am talking about. It comes as a shattering blow. It hits you like a thunderbolt. You have invested everything in one basket, self-realization, and, in the end, suddenly you discover that there is no self to discover, no self to realize—and you say to yourself, "What the hell have I been doing all of my life?!" That blasts you."
"They are all liars, fops, fakes and cheaters in the world, who claim they have searched for and told the truth! Alright, you want to find out for yourself what this truth is. Can you find out? Can you capture the truth and hold it and say, "This is truth?" Whether you accept or reject, it's the same: It depends on your personal prejudices and predilections. So if you want to discover the truth for yourself, whatever it is, you are not in a position to either accept or reject. You assume that there is such a thing as truth, you assume that there is such a thing as reality (ultimate or otherwise)—it is that assumption that is creating the problem, the suffering, for you."
~UG Krishnamurti
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Post by zendancer on Mar 21, 2011 18:33:55 GMT -5
Grapefruit: FWIW UG has always struck me as an exceedingly strange bird. Sometimes I read stuff he wrote, and I think, "WTF is with this guy?" 98% of all the well-known non-dual teachers in the world are clearly pointing to the same thing, but 2% of the characters, a group that includes UG, seem to be inhabiting some sort of parallel universe that only occasionally lines up with the one everyone else inhabits. Sometimes UG says stuff that totally computes, and other times he says stuff that leaves me shaking my head and thinking, "What was the point he was trying to make?" Nis, Ramana, Ramesh, Tolle, Adya, Gangaji, Foster, Packer, Scoma, and most Zen Masters--no problemo; the pointing is clear. But I wouldn't suggest UG as a primary guide. There just seems to be a lot of unnecessary weirdness there. I get the same feeling about Bernadette Roberts. I think she's been pretty deep, but there's some sort of unnecessary "stuff" mixed in there. If they are clear, then their ability to transmit clarity seems lacking in some fundamental way. JMHO
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Post by michaelsees on Mar 21, 2011 20:22:57 GMT -5
Grapefruit: FWIW UG has always struck me as an exceedingly strange bird. Sometimes I read stuff he wrote, and I think, "WTF is with this guy?" 98% of all the well-known non-dual teachers in the world are clearly pointing to the same thing, but 2% of the characters, a group that includes UG, seem to be inhabiting some sort of parallel universe that only occasionally lines up with the one everyone else inhabits. Sometimes UG says stuff that totally computes, and other times he says stuff that leaves me shaking my head and thinking, "What was the point he was trying to make?" Nis, Ramana, Ramesh, Tolle, Adya, Gangaji, Foster, Packer, Scoma, and most Zen Masters--no problemo; the pointing is clear. But I wouldn't suggest UG as a primary guide. There just seems to be a lot of unnecessary weirdness there. I get the same feeling about Bernadette Roberts. I think she's been pretty deep, but there's some sort of unnecessary "stuff" mixed in there. If they are clear, then their ability to transmit clarity seems lacking in some fundamental way. JMHO I am curious ZD is there anything that you find in the 2 UG quotes above that Graprfruit posted to seem like it's coming as you say from a odd parallel universe? Would you have problems with the 2nd quote(lower one) as being like this. thanks Michael |
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Post by grapefruit on Mar 21, 2011 20:58:38 GMT -5
I actually much prefer UG to other teachers. A good guru ought to be someone who obliterates the foundation of all your assumptions and tells you to burn all these worthless opinions about reality. What he is saying there is that you can't know anything for sure so no ultimate self or reality that can ever be known. There is only experience and it is unknown, there is nothing one can be sure about in it. In this way nobody can really say they have know the truth, it absoloutely has to be a lie.
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Post by michaelsees on Mar 21, 2011 21:05:25 GMT -5
Grapefruit
I think what UG is saying no one can know the truth and if anyone says here it is that's a lie.
However you are the truth, you be the truth and toss out everything else.
Michael
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Post by zendancer on Mar 21, 2011 23:12:44 GMT -5
Grapefruit I think what UG is saying no one can know the truth and if anyone says here it is that's a lie. However you are the truth, you be the truth and toss out everything else. Michael Yes, that's what I think he meant, but your short summation is more concise and clearer than his entire paragraph. His words could easily lead someone to think that no significant realization is possible. It's like getting stuck in "neti neti" and not seeing what "neti neti" is pointing to. Hey, its no big deal. I'm just not a fan of UG's style. |
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Post by michaelsees on Mar 21, 2011 23:42:16 GMT -5
Grapefruit I think what UG is saying no one can know the truth and if anyone says here it is that's a lie. However you are the truth, you be the truth and toss out everything else. Michael Yes, that's what I think he meant, but your short summation is more concise and clearer than his entire paragraph. His words could easily lead someone to think that no significant realization is possible. It's like getting stuck in "neti neti" and not seeing what "neti neti" is pointing to. Hey, its no big deal. I'm just not a fan of UG's style. OMMMMMMMMMMMMMG I finally got some agreement here hell it only took like 20 posts you guys are a hard crowd! ;D Michael |
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Post by K Grey on Mar 26, 2011 1:37:40 GMT -5
@ Zendancer's comment on UG "His words could easily lead someone to think that no significant realization is possible."
What is realized simply is.
Easily/With difficulty is wrong thinking.
Significant/Insignificant is wrong thinking.
All that is delusion. Duality.
Duality is not a problem, when seen through.
You can not lead someone to think, only try to get them to adopt false belief in some set of ideas.
"Significant realization" is a false belief.
Only delusions can be given significance or lead to more erroneous thought.Preferences for this or that style are OK. Just reflections/expressions of self, nothing more.
Awareness is aware of this.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 26, 2011 6:40:27 GMT -5
Attachment to words is unnecessary, but it seems to be a common practice. LOL.
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Post by stepvhen on Apr 17, 2011 14:31:02 GMT -5
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Post by angela on Apr 17, 2011 17:52:36 GMT -5
just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water.....  |
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Post by stepvhen on Apr 17, 2011 18:00:40 GMT -5
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Post by zendancer on Apr 17, 2011 21:34:06 GMT -5
Stepvhen: That's way cool! Best laugh of the night. Cheers.
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