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Post by angela on Jan 5, 2011 20:38:47 GMT -5
i'm curious then if you would call jesus or buddha a complainer then, by that logic?  |
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ichc
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Post by ichc on Jan 5, 2011 20:48:04 GMT -5
Jesus and Buddha did what they had to do as well (though not blindly).
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Post by zendancer on Jan 5, 2011 20:49:11 GMT -5
I rarely read the RT thread, but these last few posts have been a hoot and a holler! The RT folks missed their chance at having a real Ninja on board. They obviously didn't recognize the opportunity that confronted them. Still giggling and chortling here.
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Post by karen on Jan 5, 2011 22:23:46 GMT -5
I sure hope those guys stick around!  |
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 5, 2011 22:55:42 GMT -5
he he well our dear Angela is only 1st year Ninja she's obvious here but she should had taken another job before she tried this board. Oh ZD don't say things like hoot and holler it sounds way to country for you! Michael I rarely read the RT thread, but these last few posts have been a hoot and a holler! The RT folks missed their chance at having a real Ninja on board. They obviously didn't recognize the opportunity that confronted them. Still giggling and chortling here. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2011 9:25:05 GMT -5
I sure hope those guys stick around! I’ve been registered with both RT and SpiritualTeachers but have been lurking at ST a lot longer. Jed Mckenna’s books had brought me to ST via google a couple years ago, as I couldn’t quite get a handle on doing the autolysis process alone. I had even engaged with JM via Facebook. ST introduced me to a few teachers – Richard Rose and that lineage, Byron Catie, some of the Vedanta folks. I read a bunch of their stuff and have read with great appreciation much of the postings on the forums here. Both JM and RR cracked a belief I had that the ‘enlightenment’ process was some sort of ever-increasing compassion/mindfulness. Also, that a teacher can be an arrogant a**hole. Haha coming from a western Buddhist angle, this was welcome news (after a bit of initial angst). Then in October I stumbled on Ciaran’s blog post Thunder and the Sunshine. Lots of energy there. Free too! And so I signed up for RT (this pre-dated getting approval for posting rights ...and not surprisingly they were infected with a bunch of trolls at the time) and engaged with StepVheN and Unison, and now see the truth in the statement “there is no you.” It wasn’t easy. RT puts a blue color on your avatar name when that happens. WHATEVER. Immediately after that Ciaran put the challenge to me to not rest on my laurels and wander off in blissland but to try and help others see that realization. That jived. So yes, that’s where “I” am at. When I saw StepVheN had started this thread I signed up. Back here, not as a ninja, no longer a lurker. The concept of bringing this ‘truth’ to ST seemed a bit moot to me, but I genuinely wanted and continue to want, to hear a conversation/reflection at ST about RT tactics/aims. The words of caution here have been much appreciated. Particularly Iris’ point that truth is still the thing and that delusion can crop up in any way – particularly when you’re talking about getting nice colors and monikers like ‘enlightened’ or ‘liberator’ and counting kills. It seems real absurd but I also understand that it’s part of the aim to ‘kill the lie.’ Perhaps it’s deluded, but I haven’t seen a contradiction yet. Clearly ST has lots of folks that have killed that lie. I say ‘clearly’ but this is all text so, like angela, I say this with a grain of salt. Same goes for RT. Okay whatever. One thing that the aim of ‘liberating’ more or ‘killing Maya’ is that the delusion of self is the cause of immense amounts of suffering/carnage/and environmental degradation. This seems so clear. Is it true? If it is true, why would someone who is in a position to do something about it, not do something about it? And when doing something about it, why not do it as ‘effectively’ as possible? This is why RT folks talk about ‘industrializing’ the killing of the lie. That’s why this ‘forum incursion’ tactic was put forth. But one thing to draw from wynne’s last post is that ST might be better suited for another tactic, which could be just listening, as allies do with one another. Not to say that everyone at ST is an ally (hi michaelsees). How about if ST set up it’s own version of a dueling ground? One-on-One, no interruptions allowed. The way ST is structured now, it’s more comparable to ‘the pit’ at RT. just a couple ideas. |
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 6, 2011 10:31:47 GMT -5
Good post Max.
ST is used as you say. I throw out into all kinds of stuff just to see how different members respond.
If something hits a nerve of someone else I attempt to keep it going to see what comes from it.
I for myself see no need for a one on one dueling ground. The interruptions you mention to me are not interruptions to me. They are precisely what I want to see. The value of ST compared to RT has to do with how far you can take the no-self to. The no-self is a very simple thing to get. Many many members here have had that a long time ago and wish to move forward not backwards in their walk. ST can help immensely with this if you use it. I use it as a crazy no-self member. I throw out all kinds of stuff and then see where it sticks, listen to other members, take what I want and just keep moving with it. The value of this can be great as long as you never take anything personal. You can act as if it's personal to keep things moving but inside you need to always know that nothing on this forum is personal or about you. This is why it's so funny to me to have S from RT to come back with striking words and insults most of the time defending something that never needed a defense to start with. We all including me of course get to see at times a part of our own stuff when this happens. It's valuable to see this and it's very laughable when you do. In the deeper sense it means nothing but on other levels they can be good pointers for everyone to remove a little more lint from their clothes.
Michael
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Post by Peter on Jan 6, 2011 12:28:38 GMT -5
Take care Wynn. I hope you return after you've reflected! Hey Wynn, I'm also very sorry to hear that you're leaving / have left. I noticed that you had an unpleasant encounter with Dawn as well, and also backed off from that. I can imagine this board must seem like a pretty combative sort of place to you just now...it's not always like that. It seems like just the other day FrankShank was complaining that it was all too nicey nicey and he wanted to see the converstation get a little edgier. Well it's certainly done that. Forums can be quite unpleasant places, but then the world can be quite an unpleasant place too at times. I guess we all find our own ways of dealing with it. Hope you feel able to rejoin us at some point in the future. Best Wishes, Peter |
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 6, 2011 15:05:50 GMT -5
Very nice post Peter
karma point
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Post by stepvhen on Jan 6, 2011 18:18:38 GMT -5
If something hits a nerve of someone else I attempt to keep it going to see what comes from it. Same here. Same here If you think you "get it" conceptually. You have missed the point. It's about seeing not getting. ahem.. This does not strike me as the way a man who has realised no self and begun to abide in truth acts. Again. I'm not insulting. I'm not doing anything much just pointing towards the same truth over and over. Understanding the concept of your own non existence means zilch. Scanning your experience of reality to see if there is in fact a self thats what matters. Realising the true nature of your won experience of reality. I put this challenge to you here Michael. I challenge you to do this, because I don't believe you have done it before. I challenge you to scan your experience of reality document it and write it up here in an honest post. No mystical talk no layers just the raw and simple truth of your experience of reality. I challenge you to challenge yourself. Drop what you thought you knew and engage. If you have seen this before this will do no harm and in fact prove it. If you have not done this before you will do it right now and break through the delusion. You have nothing to lose. The only thing that would prevent you from doing this is your ego. In which case actually doing this would free you. Let's put all the past aside it's an illusion anyway as you well now. Here and now is a golden opportunity for you. Stephen |
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 6, 2011 18:50:14 GMT -5
I put this challenge to you here Michael. I challenge you to do this, because I don't believe you have done it before. I challenge you to scan your experience of reality document it and write it up here in an honest post. No mystical talk no layers just the raw and simple truth of your experience of reality. I challenge you to challenge yourself. Drop what you thought you knew and engage. If you have seen this before this will do no harm and in fact prove it. If you have not done this before you will do it right now and break through the delusion. You have nothing to lose. The only thing that would prevent you from doing this is your ego. In which case actually doing this would free you. Let's put all the past aside it's an illusion anyway as you well now. Here and now is a golden opportunity for you. Stephen Ok Stephen your words were more kind in tone so here's my answer. Sure no problem, one condition only. You 1st Michael |
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Post by stepvhen on Jan 6, 2011 18:56:34 GMT -5
Oh yes. Stand by.  This is the good stuff |
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Post by angela on Jan 6, 2011 19:04:21 GMT -5
oh, i love this thread. every single moment.
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Post by stepvhen on Jan 6, 2011 20:02:37 GMT -5
My head keeps moving as I sit here thinking. I've broken it now to type this, but I didn't really break it did I. The stream of whatever I was doing was just broken there was no decision by a self to start typing. As I shuffle to get comfortable in my seat I notice that the thought begins before the movement. As though the thought were the instigator. When I look at it though. The thought and movement are unrelated. I shifted in my seat after the thought "Im going to shift in my seat" came up, but the process that lead to my shifting in my seat had been enacted before that thought popped up. The body shifted regardless of the thought. The thought was unrelated. Jesus Imy hands are running over my face, there was no thought involved there. There was no thought involved there. A better more accurate description is to say there was no "self" making me do that. There was no self doing that just my body reacting to the environment/itself. There was no decision even to write what I just said down here.
Though there was a thought after that, I should note what had just, to mention that. That thought was acted on, but what initiated the thought? I can't say it just arose, I didn't think it. It arose automatically.
This is the statement I have to look honestly at. Drop all I thought and start again.
There is no self is it true?
Is that true in the experience of reality.
Well what I call my hand is doing the writing here, and I'm documenting "my" outlook on reality so on the surface it would seem that yeah, there is a self in control, it's moving my hands to type and its scanning reality.
What is moving my hands to type this?
My hand is moving now I'm opening and closing it. I'm not though. There is just a hand opening and closing. For some reason every now and then it turns around. No thoughts about this turning arose.
Tracing it back what is making this hand open and close? The brain. What makes the brain make the hand open and close? Right now I'm embroiled in this process of documenting my experience of reality to find a self. That is my environment.
But this is about my experience and I don't feel the brain open my hand or see it working. I might see muscles twitch but all of that stuff is based on prior knowledge given to me from elsewhere.not my experience. Stuff moves under my skin when I open my hand... Great... That tells me that stuff moves under my skin when I open my hand. Thats what it says. Thats all it says.
There is movement of my arms. There was no conscious decision made. There was no thought to move my arms.
Now I have just had the thought I'm going to move my arm up. Where did that come from? There is no source to these thoughts. Not inside of "me".
It's the environment I'm in if anything. I'm here doing this. As a result of this environment movement in my arms happened. What is here doing this. I have seen no self here. What is continually seen is thoughts arising. Movements arising. This feels liberating. I feel lighter. I can't see a self.
Does that mean there is no self?
No. It means there is absolutely no good reason why there would be one. On top of that. These actions just arise. They are not caused by a self. They arise. Thats where they come from. they don't come from self they arise. From what? From this environment. Jesus. No self here. Nothing inside me instigating these thoughts and actions. They just arise. There is no controller.
ha ha even the thoughts so inflated with self... just arise. They don't even come from self. Now that is ironic!
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Post by stepvhen on Jan 6, 2011 20:12:38 GMT -5
You're up Mike
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This is the good stuff