Ruthless Truth

[wynn]

stepvhen - my chance encounter with you, and your group, has been vexing, to say the least. Your actions have raised a wide array of emotions in me; wonder, aggravation, concern, and even anger. At first I found it curious that attempting to have a normal conversation with you is impossible, you are so single-minded in your approach that you have no interest in anything else. "kevin" answered that little curiosity with this quote, "This doesn't take a conversation. This doesn't require back and forth. There's nothing they have to respond other than "It's true, I see it, there's no me, never was." That's the only response you hope to get, and as such, any chit-chat is detrimental. You're not filling their head with ideas. As such, the usual rules of conversation do not apply. The only back and forth you have is to tell them how they're not looking, and how to look."

So at least now I know where you're coming from.

More from "kevin"s post "It's time to pay rent"

"Badger's How-to Forum Incursion

1) Hold the line. All you're doing is dropping this single idea in their lap and saying, “Look, find out if it's true.” You don't try to convince them of anything, you don't advance any philosophy or belief system. Their attention will wander off into other topics, so you redirect their focus. You also keep a strong online presence. Anyone responds, you jump on it immediately. Be prepared to spend a few hours every day to keep a thread strong.

2) Take a partner. [with Oldow and kakistos being your partners here]

[3 & 4 are pretty lame]

5) Kill some lie. Profit? This is really simple, actually, as evidenced by the four points I actually have. Always keep your eye on the goal, however, and don't get lost discussing all the awesome epiphanies you'll have. We're here to kill a lie. Only a complete genocide will free this world, and so you work hard and you work often. It's how you kill lie and get better at killing lie."


"This is simple, folks. I know how unsteady the ground you stand on sometimes feels, because we're all new to this. Technically we're still in infancy. But the only way we'll get any good, the only way YOU'll get any good, is by doing it. No one's got a cheat sheet with all the answers for you anymore. This is just a basic framework to help you along. Start thinking, get creative, and kill some lie.

Alright? Google a forum, find one that's active, and learn how to do this.

Those are your orders."


Orders??? hmmm. Why are you taking orders from another stepvhen? That seems kinda sad to me that you have gotten mixed up with a group like this.

But a few quotes from "ciaran" were interesting also.

"You see, I've been working on people in real life. I find it's extremely hard. I can free people like I'm popping popcorn over the web, but in real life? Just doesn't work very well. Not for me. Hmmm."

So in "real life" people must shun your group like the plague (for good reason). Does that not tell you something? But in your pseudo-internet life - everything works like a charm? hmmm, odd. I would compare you to an online version of Jehovah's Witnesses - "preaching" your gospel from behind the anonymity of a screen name. How very cowardly of you. I guess its easier to accost strangers from the sanctuary of your computer, but you are afraid to do it face to face. Again, hmmm.

Another from dear ol "ciaran" (the screen name), " Online liberation works. It actually works. It worked on you, your wife and now 89 confirmed other people in the past 6 months. 89. In six months. 38, that's my number. Buddha didn't rack up scores anything like that. He took years, decades to free people, and produced 1000 times the number of useless monks as he did actual free people. This works. The internet is a tool that we, humanity, has never had this method of communication before. The lie has not evolved to be able to resist it. The lie WILL. But it hasn't YET. We have an OPENING. We should F**KING USE IT."

Wow, I mean really WOW! Your online buddy is better at liberating people than Buddha? I've used the word "delusional" before, now that word seems woefully lacking.

So this is who you "take orders from"? Please, for your sake, seek help.

OK, so "kevin" and "ciaran" ordered you (and the 80 other deluded) to spam and troll every spiritual site on the web, to spread your "gospel" of """" NO YOU """". Let's look at that. First I disagree with your premise, what does the word "You" refer to? Are you concerned about "others"? What are they?

Had you said "No i", the little i, then we could talk. You, me, the other personalities on this planet do not exist, that is true. "We" are all mental creations, created by ego, unreal. But, behind, in front, above and below all of us is the same thing - the Real I, the All, the Truth. That which is timeless and formless, and that which can not be named (expressed by words).

Your little group of malcontents strike me as a gradeschoolers who just figured out 2+2 =4, and burst into a high school calculus class offering your "discovery". No-i = no duh.
Now, should you be interested in uncovering more Truth, your first step must be to disassociate yourself from that web site of yours. Forget about trying to "help" others, just help yourself.

None of the above means much, I just wanted to real reason for your visit to this forum added to the discussion, in case anyone seeing this thread foolishly wanders over there.

.......................................

stepvhen, I hope you come to realize that your actions have consequences in the real world. There is a little truth called cause and effect. Your foray here caused me distress, so much so that I will be deleting my account here after posting this. I must go an reflect on "who is distressed", which I know to be the false me, but "knowing" intellectually, and Understanding are not the same.

I wish you well.

For me, this

[karen]

wynn, sorry to see you go! But yes, time to focus on you, not others.

I remember having been vulnerable to getting very upset about other's actions in webforums, and it disappointed me to no end. Why did I get so upset I pondered. This ain't no ambush here, just relating what I experienced (and rarely still do a little).

Be well my friend!

[Deleted]

bye Wynn.

i don't understand why you are leaving or deleting. it sounds like you understand this stuff (""knowing" intellectually, and Understanding are not the same"). how did stepvhen's swashbuckling push your buttons?

don't lick your wounds too much. better to let them fester and keep you focused.

keep in mind that Stepvhen and Kevin and Ciaran (his actual name) are not asking you to like them. that which you are seeking is not in contradiction to what they are asserting.

[frankshank]

Take care Wynn. I hope you return after you've reflected!

[stepvhen]

Jan 5, 2011 11:31:49 GMT -5 @wynn said:

stepvhen - my chance encounter with you, and your group, has been vexing, to say the least.

Boo hooo. I am so very very sad for you. Really I am. I'm crying as I type.

Your actions have raised a wide array of emotions in me; wonder, aggravation, concern, and even anger.

Yes the typical reactions of a man so deep in fantasy that the mere mention of reality breaks his delusion apart.

At first I found it curious that attempting to have a normal conversation with you is impossible

You wouldn't know. You never once tried to have a normal conversation only to assert that you are right over and over and over like a spoilt little narrow minded child. Each time I stepped aside and pointed to the reality of the situation.

Reality is obviously too much for you however

you are so single-minded in your approach that you have no interest in anything else.

I have no interest in wrapping you in more fantasy. If more fantasy is what you wanted you should never have instigated your putrid attempts at enforcing your petty sense of self at the expense of reality.

"kevin" answered that little curiosity with this quote, "This doesn't take a conversation. This doesn't require back and forth. There's nothing they have to respond other than "It's true, I see it, there's no me, never was." That's the only response you hope to get, and as such, any chit-chat is detrimental.
You're not filling their head with ideas. As such, the usual rules of conversation do not apply. The only back and forth you have is to tell them how they're not looking, and how to look."

You didn't come for chit chat. You came to attempt to prove reality wrong. Not once have any of us put forth any of our own opinions or forwarded any self interested agenda.

What were you looking for? You now deep down exactly what you were looking for. A pat on the back. Someone to tell you how intelligent you are and enforce your ego for you. Thats how your fantasy world works. Not how reality works.

So at least now I know where you're coming from.

No you don't. You think we operate like you. Your a liar. We don't operate like you.

1) Hold the line. All you're doing is dropping this single idea in their lap and saying, “Look, find out if it's true.” You don't try to convince them of anything, you don't advance any philosophy or belief system. Their attention will wander off into other topics, so you redirect their focus. You also keep a strong online presence. Anyone responds, you jump on it immediately. Be prepared to spend a few hours every day to keep a thread strong.

2) Take a partner. [with Oldow and kakistos being your partners here]

Kakistos is my partner. Oldow is not. In fact he was kicked off ruthless truth for doing what you are doing now. Trying to re-enforce your sense of ego. His last posts : www.ruthlesstruth.com/arena/search.php?author_id=256&sr=posts

We met here again, and Oldow actually tried hard for the first time.

Now lets talk about you shall we. Your maing your last disgusting little attempt to save face and prove yourself right.

Ego ego ego. It's all you got. All you are. You were never serious about this and you are too dishonest to actually look at what we say so instead you wage a one man war against "us" as though we have actually done something other than present you with the reality of the situation.

[3 & 4 are pretty lame]

More more ego.... Great... Wow your so amazingly brilliant . I want to be just like you oh god like spiritual seeker. Why can't you just grow up and get yourself free of the lie of self that obviously has been controlling your life??

Orders??? hmmm. Why are you taking orders from another stepvhen? That seems kinda sad to me that you have gotten mixed up with a group like this.

You find it sad that I choose to use my liberation to destroy the lie of self and liberate as many people as possible?

What would you recommend instead? Living a lie and spending my every waking moment trying to smash all others to prove my own greatness?

These orders came in after I started this thread Cross reference the dates genius. I started one on never not here after those orders came out. I'm working with a guy who actually wants to be free there. Sure he has an ego, but he has it in check and in a few days time he will be liberated from self, while you will be probably even deeper in your ego.

So in "real life" people must shun your group like the plague (for good reason). Does that not tell you something? But in your pseudo-internet life - everything works like a charm? hmmm, odd. I would compare you to an online version of Jehovah's Witnesses - "preaching" your gospel from behind the anonymity of a screen name. How very cowardly of you. I guess its easier to accost strangers from the sanctuary of your computer, but you are afraid to do it face to face. Again, hmmm.

What an idiot.
The truth? Most people just don't want to hear it. I mean look at you for example. Your ego was hurt and there you are. Ignoring what we offer.

Trying to prove something. Thinking that because you copied stuff of our public forum (where I've been encouraging any honest man to go to find liberation) which is there for all to see you have some illusory upper hand =D

I bet you think your like a secret agent or a hacker? I bet your delighted with your SELF right now. Even though I do not deny a bit of this.
I'm here to smash the lie of self. Show anyone who will look the way to reality.

Wow, I mean really WOW! Your online buddy is better at liberating people than Buddha? I've used the word "delusional" before, now that word seems woefully lacking.

Never heard the phrase kill the buddha? Or did you just ignore it because it didn't fit into your fantasy?

See what you have done here? This is actually quite great.

Ladies and gentlemen. Here we have a cornered ego fighting tooth and nail to survive.

He fights not by building himself up now. That is over. We have put a stop to his self inflation by pointing out it is fantasy.
What he needs now is to survive. This he will do by attacking the credibility of "me".

This is the point in the exchange where I once again point out. I claim no credibility. This is not about me.

Thie is about one simple truth There is no you. That is all, I don't hold it as a belief or put it forward as a good mental position. I simply present it and ask you to verify if you have ever been aware of a self in your own experience? Are you now?

Of course. That gets the gets back up. The lie of self will fight to survive as we can see here in Wynn.

OK, so "kevin" and "ciaran" ordered you (and the 80 other deluded) to spam and troll every spiritual site on the web, to spread your "gospel" of """" NO YOU """".

Gospel? Gospel?? Are you still trying to project some sort of fantasy on whats actually going on here?


Is thatwhat this is for you? a gospel? It is no little wonder you are stuck in your own delusion, when basic basic things like this become "gospel" in your mind. Is it because I hurt your feeble sentimentalities Is this what you actually believe?

Or is this more of your attempt to save your own ego?

Let's look at that. First I disagree with your premise, what does the word "You" refer to? Are you concerned about "others"? What are they?

Are you that dumb?

Disagree with what premise? Where is the premise.

The self doesn't exist. There is no self. This isn't about abstract reasoning as we have pointed out and it is not about re-enforcing your ego.

The idea is that YOU look to see if you have ever been aware of a self or if you are aware of one now.

When are you going to get over your own childish antics and just do this?

Had you said "No i", the little i, then we could talk. You, me, the other personalities on this planet do not exist, that is true. "We" are all mental creations, created by ego, unreal. But, behind, in front, above and below all of us is the same thing - the Real I, the All, the Truth. That which is timeless and formless, and that which can not be named (expressed by words).

Oh there it is.... You think you are everything.... You have replaced your original ego with this concept that you are god.... Worse you think that the capitalization of a letter means the difference between ego and god......deluded little man clutching to your weak weak belief

Why is that the "I"?

Have you looked to see if it is "I" ? Are you aware of all of that as "I" anywhere but in your own thoughts?

Your little group of malcontents strike me as a gradeschoolers who just figured out 2+2 =4, and burst into a high school calculus class
offering your "discovery".

I'm sure the thought that you are in high school calculus as opposed to my grade school makes you feel very very important, but the reality is. You are a slave to ego. You're in remedial.

Forget about trying to "help" others, just help yourself.

And here we have it. The problem with the lie of self. Is that it is Self Obsessed. Forget about others......Help yourself.....

Well thats just great advice.... Well done This line here. This quote from you. You should have it put on your gravestone.

That is the definitive slogan of ego. It is all that is wrong with the world. All that is wrong with YOU. It's disgusting.

None of the above means much, I just wanted to real reason for your visit to this forum added to the discussion, in case anyone seeing this thread foolishly wanders over there.

You wanted to help people?
No. You wanted to save your shattered ego. You anted to cling to some vestige of self. But you weren't strong enough were you...

You said this

Forget about trying to "help" others, just help yourself.

. You even put the words help and others in quotes. then you say you want to help people?

You only want to help yourself.

An now we know. Now we see the problem. You are so very very far into ego, that you have become weak and lost touch with reality.


Reality be damned you say. Others be damned....

I'm afraid I just can't let that pass.



.......................................

stepvhen, I hope you come to realize that your actions have consequences in the real world. There is a little truth called cause and effect. Your foray here caused me distress, so much so that I will be deleting my account here after posting this. I must go an reflect on "who is distressed", which I know to be the false me, but "knowing" intellectually, and Understanding are not the same.

Well done genius. You decided to look. And I should be sorry that I helped you look and get over your own bullshit?... But. I don't believe you.
You're deleting your account seems like a reactionary ego ploy. More than anything. once again take a look at those words you wrote here

Forget about trying to "help" others, just help yourself.

wow. This whole thing really has been about you helping your self hasnt it.


You have a lot of growing up to do.

Forget about trying to "help" others, just help yourself.

[/quote]

[michaelsees]

stepvhen why don't you just go the F..k home . I do not know why you keep coming back it's clear to my dog even that this place is not for you so why stay we all listen to you and it's really funny myself at least and I am sure there are also more members here have never called you a name or whatever and you do all the time. It's not that you are pushing any buttons here even when you have a mouth of a street whore when your buttons get push it's your a pest. You do not belong here why not just do the civil thing and go elsewhere to try and win converts. I suggest you contact a friend of mine Jerry Katz on his forum Non duality forum and see how your message plays out there. I made a promise I was done with you and I am done now but to keep my integrity I just had to add go somewhere else you are acting like my 5 year old kid and it gets old very fast. I and many others just don't want the waste of space and your attitude.
Please just leave the end and this is not a post for debate .
I will also say that any member here that feels the need to keep going with you to stop if we all ignore you then feel free to stay and write to yourself. I again will never debate or answer you.

love
Michael

[stepvhen]

Jan 5, 2011 18:00:21 GMT -5 @michaelsees said:

stepvhen why don't you just go the F..k home . I do not know why you keep coming back it's clear to my dog even that this place is not for you so why stay we all listen to you and it's really funny myself at least and I am sure there are also more members here have never called you a name or whatever and you do all the time. It's not that you are pushing any buttons here even when you have a mouth of a street sleeper when your buttons get push it's your a pest. You do not belong here why not just do the civil thing and go elsewhere to try and win converts. I suggest you contact a friend of mine Jerry Katz on his forum Non duality forum and see how your message plays out there. I made a promise I was done with you and I am done now but to keep my integrity I just had to add go somewhere else you are acting like my 5 year old kid and it gets old very fast. I and many others just don't want the waste of space and your attitude.
Please just leave the end and this is not a post for debate .
I will also say that any member here that feels the need to keep going with you to stop if we all ignore you then feel free to stay and write to yourself. I again will never debate or answer you.

love
Michael

What a weak sheepish little coward of a man. This is the equivalent of shouting insults and clogging your fingers into your ears to maintain your own fantasy. ha ha

Yeah... I'm the five year old. Sure.... Thats what's going on here. You swore out of this thread and couldn't even maintain your own word, you had to jump back in to boost your sense of self first chance you get.

Converts??? Is this what all this is for you? Religion. This is ridiculous. Is there any one single person in here with a shred of decency.

I again will never debate or answer you.

Look at this? What is that? Your free meal card to shout your vile infectious b.s. at me while you get away free?

You are a coward. If you have something to say. Stay in here little man and say it to my face you worm.

I suggest you contact a friend of mine Jerry Katz

Oh. I'm sorry. I wasn't aware you were pals with THE Jerry Katz.!!!

WOW A REAL LIFE CELEBRITY. You must be really important to be friends with him!!! I didn't know how important you were before I pointed out that you are a weak constricted coward of a man. Please forgive me FORGIVE ME I WANT TO BE FRIENDS I DIDNT KNOW YOU KNEW A FAMOUS GUY.

You are so amazing!!!!! Take me back TAKE ME BACK.

idiot. Re-enforcing your shallow sense of self by name dropping... Are you friends with David Beckham too?? What about David Bowie? I'd love to meet him too.



The ONLY reason you wrote back in this thread was because of this:

Forget about trying to "help" others, just help yourself.

That quote there from Wynn. Thats you in a nutshell isn't it.

What are you fighting to protect and who do you think your fighting??

Me?? No.

You are fighting that last little rational part in your mind that is telling you that what you are reading here is true. That you are rotten to the core with the lie of self.

And you.

You are too much the coward and weakling to listen to it. Not one word of it.

You see this don't you. You wouldn't have posted back if you didn't.

Can't you be honest with yourself?

Can't you give up your stupidity and be honest???

If not for your own sake. Do it for the sake of that little 5 year old boy who you flash around like some kind of ego trophy in your post.

Give him a chance of a decent father NOT rotten to the core.

Is that too much to ask?

[angela]

Hello - I want to share an exchange I had with Ciaran via email. I thought I'd ask for posting rights on RT just so I could go through the process whereby I chatted with him in email. I was interested in the exchange, just to feel out the quality of his process. I have found this debate about RT fascinating, absolutely fascinating, and I have honestly appreciated all angles of it from where I sit. I don't know how much room I have for posting, so we'll see if everything fits.

First of all, I have to mention to anyone interested, I did this with a point and a purpose. I do not BELIEVE with some great angst and fervor anything I said. I said it because I was trying something out, I was dancing. So, take this whole thing as what it is, like the rest of life, a grand show.

Oh, obviously this opens me up to be "disgorged" by the members of RT lurking about. So.... if that's your thing, have fun. I'm probably not interested, because I really have nothing to debate, and I don't have any position to defend, but we never do know from one minute to the next what is going to happen, do we? I might bite. Enjoy the show!



*********************my introductory email, asking for posting rights*******************


it hasn't always been my specialty to use the written word / logic as a tool, except in the case of my own dismantling. i am a female, and the kali archetype seemed to always apply. i do work as a care-giver, but to really get down in the trenches with people suffering, dying, living with hardcore mental illness, has allowed me to find a special way to navigate their dreamstate (and that work also played a part in my own dismantling...)

my methods have been tried in person, and yet like you've mentioned, the one on one in person thing does have severe limitations. it takes a *lot* of time and effort with each person, a lot of man hours. and anyway, it's harder to meet the folks who are ripe for this, the folks who have a stronger gut feeling about their own non-existence (although my two years working with mentally ill, drug addicted, homeless teenagers was fascinating in that they were far, far more ripe for the truth than any of the bellybutton gazing buddhist types i met at the "contemplative" university i attended for a time...). i recognize the hunger in those half crazed types, in the addicts and the dying, because the thing about truth is that it's true, and nothing else feels the same. we cant blunder about totally blind to the obvious without having some side effects.

anyway, back to my point. i enjoy working through the holes in people's logic, and while i don't have the same kind of "attack" that many of your folk have on RT, i do have my own style for sure. there is a simple clarity in how i discuss these matters, and oddly enough, the fact that i absolutely love every single person i am speaking with, does it's own work. because i do not love the them they think they are. i love their truth, the truth of their emptiness. and as a witness to the suffering they cause themselves by trying to fortify and defend a lie, or to shore up their lack of existence.

it took me a while to realize i didn't exist, because i had my own mental illness when i was young called borderline personality disorder - very much an illness born of the constant nagging suspicion that the person has that they don't exist, a nearly psychotic fear of the emptiness. from the time i was young i knew something was off, it just took a long time to see what that was. i wouldn't say i'm enlightened because i think that's a bullshit phrase - although for the purposes of your site it's effective as a meme. there was no one here to wake up or become enlightned. when waking happens, it happens to itself. not to me. never did.

i appreciate what you do. i think i could bring something different to the site - a certain ruthlessness, of course, but i'm also very, very good at being sneaky. i have a way of making people feel comfortable with my right hand while my left slips around and slits their throat. maybe i can hone that skill with your site, which i discovered at spiritualteachers.org and stepvhen's attempts at getting the old stuck asses to really take a peek.

thanks,
angela


****************************ciaran's first reply to me*****************************


Have you ever liberated someone?


****************************my response***********************************

i don't take credit for that s**t. i don't exist. the truth moves, it rolls, and it wakes itself up to itself. so no, i haven't. and if you want to deny me posting rights based on a disagreement in terms, that's okay. i wish you well.

bless,
angela


*******************************Ciaran's reply*****************************


You're just full of your own fucking opinions, mate. It's like you already have 10 answers all stacked up.

We're not interested in being right about this or that. What we want to do is to fully uncover the thing we've already partially uncovered - and work out how to, in hindu terms, kill Maya. We're making headway, but I honestly don't see what help you can be.


*********************************my response*****************************


it's all good toots, like i said, i don't mind if you decide to deny posting rights. i'm not all up in a lather about this s**t. the truth hollowed me out like a reed and there's nowhere left for that kind of fervor to stick. i care really deeply about the truth of these people walking about in costume, and what i do in person i am really passionate about... i just never liked labels.

i dont think i said one time i was right about something, but if that's what you see, that's okay too. what i did say is that i won't take credit for someone's liberation. that's just how i roll. i guessed probably when i wrote the first email that if i wasn't willing to agree to your terminology that i'd be out the back door. that's how it usually goes and i have a nice pair of boots.

thanks anyway and keep laughing. even if makes you mad, the very fact that the lie is separated from the truth by a measurement of NOTHING has to give you a giggle.

bless,
angela

ps - it's not about how much i can help *you*.... but how much i can help *them*, isn't it, mate?



*******************************Ciaran's reply********************************


All I hear from you is weakness and evasion.


****************************my response****************************



enjoy yourself mate.


***********************************Ciaran's reply****************************


And there you go, slithering out of yet another moment of honesty. Ok, have fun.


******************************my response*******************************


you're so cute, ciaran. seriously. i was dropping the ball on this end because i'm not interested in arguing with you. we're viewing life from the same empty space, and argument isn't good for the endocrine system.

the great thing about truth is that you don't have to go on the attack to draw it out of a person (although the reason i was interested at all in RT is because attack very often works, and works well, and quickly....) but it doesn't have to always "look" like an attack. there is an art of subtlety, which i was asking permission to test out on your site. but if you don't have any interest in it, then that's peachy. i personally am of the mind that liberation is more important than buying into exactly specified ways and means, but maybe that's not your game.

the thing about the truth is that its true. it's the only, the absolutely only f****g game in town.... everyone, every single person no matter how desperately they cling to the lie of self, deep down *knows* the truth. it's why they cling so desperately, because the truth haunts every cell, every breath.

so you don't have to have every single player on the board with a flamethrower in their hand. i would think it'd be useful to have a ninja or two.

again, that's just me. and i have a great sense of humor about this s**t. if i didn't, for me it'd seem like missing the point.

laughing and beheading aren't mutually exclusive.

bless,
angela


****************************************Ciaran's reply************************

I honestly don't think you're any good. You don't come across as good. I need to know how good you are. So - if you've got nothing to show me but evasion and dancing around the issue with wordplay, while accusing me of doing exactly that, we have nothing to discuss.

Get to my blog, check out the last few posts on faith. I'm working a new angle on this, there's some sickening power here, and it hasn't been done like this in a good long time.

Start looking into what I'm saying, start really getting your head inside faith, and then let the slaughter commence.

And I'm blocking your email as spam so you can't contact me again, you don't have anything to say to me.

Here, I'll even link you:

ruthlesstruthdotcom.blogspot.com/2011/01/faith.html


***************************************************************************


at which point i drop the thread because that's just how the cookie crumbles. but i had fun while it lasted, thanks Ciaran!! and thanks to everyone else here involved in this RT thread - each and every one of you.

you are all a candle for awakening, every moment, every action.

gratitude is all there is, for every single moment of this whole grand show.

[ichc]

Steve: who are you and who are you talking to?

[teetown]

Angela,

Very interesting. After conversing with this Ciaran fellow, do you think him and his group see things from the same perspective that you do? Are they really speaking from a place of truth?

[angela]

teetown -

the point wasn't to find a right or a wrong. i was curious and so i went on an exploring mission. that is all i can really say about it. i explored and hold it up so that everyone can get what they will from the exchange.

on my end, and this is just me, i don't find that THE TRUTH (as it were) can be written down or talked about. by nature language is dual and so it always falls short.

so. in my book no one can speak the truth. speaking from a "place of truth".... eh. that's semantics. we all do what we can, and i don't doubt for a second the intent of the group RT. not for one second. their intent is to liberate people, and they are passionate about what they do.

who am i to judge?



life will prove in the living what goes on from here. i guess we'll see.

[frankshank]

Angela the Ninja! ;D

[ichc]

Jan 5, 2011 19:13:34 GMT -5 angela said:

i don't doubt for a second the intent of the group RT. not for one second. their intent is to liberate people, and they are passionate about what they do.

They are blindly doing the only thing they can.

[stepvhen]

Jan 5, 2011 19:29:38 GMT -5 ichc said:

Jan 5, 2011 19:13:34 GMT -5 angela said:

i don't doubt for a second the intent of the group RT. not for one second. their intent is to liberate people, and they are passionate about what they do.

They are blindly doing the only thing they can.

Do you want to complain or do you want to liberate yourself from self?

[ichc]

Jan 5, 2011 19:48:33 GMT -5 stepvhen said:

Jan 5, 2011 19:29:38 GMT -5 ichc said:

They are blindly doing the only thing they can.

Do you want to complain or do you want to liberate yourself from self?

Those who want to liberate others are complaining ...