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Post by wynn on Jan 3, 2011 8:34:22 GMT -5
Karen said; "let's end this with a song, shall we?" I concur, those enamored remain enamored, those opposed remain opposed. Stalemate. Fine, perhaps we all will meet again one day. Best wishes to all.
But to answer oldow. I see "imagination" as my arch nemesis. When I looked at RT, imagination was all I saw. I thought my speaking out here might save a new seeker some time, if they were considering looking there for answers, but in hindsight I should remained silent. We all have had mis-steps, everything is a learning experience. Best of luck to you.
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oldow
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Post by oldow on Jan 3, 2011 10:59:23 GMT -5
hello m,
Yes, I understand what you mean, rt is not very intelectual, but it must be admitted that probably no one there would claim that quality.
It gets most bizzare imo when they outright say stuff like - they are thought, but not your thoughts. The impression that thoughts belong to certain kind of unity in fact can be damaged. It is called schizophrenia. We then percieve thoughts as voices and that is pretty scary imo.
But still, those guys are not schizophrenic and they obviously are still able to do the dishes. If you said that rt is not intelectual and that is all what you care about, I could somehow understand, but I consider myself being very intelectual and I found that there can be valid points behind unability to express oneself preciselly.
I did not go through the transformation on rt, I have to investigate what it means, I don't have it availeble as direct experience.
But it is obvious to me, that while what you described has to stay and is indestructible, something changes.
The real point here is elsewhere though. Rt can be judged only through one consideration. Is it happy encounter or unhappy on the way of most seekers and why.
I am sorry but I do not think that the waste of time argument will hold. Rt is passionate. Most people leave quickly, because it is pretty demanding to stay. In most cases, the encounter is very brief. There are some, that obviously were for a long time to find a cause to fight for. Well, Ciaran did not put this inside them, but now they could be able to find, that this is not a game, not that easy and it demands maybe more than they thought. Maybe you see the prophetic nature as an foolishness. But then only solution is to try and learn from failure.
I say this - judging rt is not easy. It is not something that can be dismissed just like that. But you can observe lots of smugness about it, lots of self rigteousness. Why is that?
I know, that the only way how to deal with what I am saying is to keep in mind that I have an agenda and motivation to fight for the group. Than any argument goes. Try to in fact consider the stuff I am trying to express. It is the most important question of my intelectuall path. Why it is so easy to judge something as bad, without proper reason, if there is a sense, that others will agree with you?
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oldow
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Post by oldow on Jan 3, 2011 11:11:58 GMT -5
wynn:
We all have had mis-steps, everything is a learning experience.
Yeah, this is good. Is not the rt a strong one.
But one word about peace. Seeking is not peacefull. We might behave ourselves in public places, but we know that we work with dangerous things and there are strong effects.
Of all, I think that the biggest problem is the difficulty to honestly engage with things in front of you, take everything seriously as it appears in front of your eyes.
It is more dangerous than all rt's to think that by staying calm and repeating nice sounding words about peace, you have no responsibility to consider effects, that there is no danger in yourself for a new seeker.
There is danger in total peacefullness. There is danger in everything. The only safe road is to put everything in its proper place.
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Post by m on Jan 3, 2011 12:03:32 GMT -5
Bonsoir oldow, I suppose you got some of what i said, and on the whole I agree with your post. surprisingly i see a lot of intellect going on in RT, may be a projection ... another difficulty may also be, purely semantic: what do somebody mean by "you", "me"... is it kind of conceptual or is it what has to be there moment-to-moment even if no word ("me", "consciousness", "no-me", "void"...) can get it.? But what i try to communicate is that we can induce ourself in being whatever we think we are (believe me I am a master at this game) and that is too bad enough when we believe we are such a buided up concept of "me", but when we induce ourselves in believing we are "something that is not" or believing that we are "not" something this is much more difficult to get out of this "no-thing". It''s just a mind bug (not as bad as schizophrenia of course but bad enough to gail you for a time) . Even if sticking to the factual is'nt more easy/difficult in any of these cases. RT belong to the show. RT propose what they propose and some other people respond and answer what they answer. No sweat! I'am ok with the proposing and the responding. m hello m, Yes, I understand what you mean, rt is not very intelectual, but it must be admitted that probably no one there would claim that quality. It gets most bizzare imo when they outright say stuff like - they are thought, but not your thoughts. The impression that thoughts belong to certain kind of unity in fact can be damaged. It is called schizophrenia. We then percieve thoughts as voices and that is pretty scary imo. But still, those guys are not schizophrenic and they obviously are still able to do the dishes. If you said that rt is not intelectual and that is all what you care about, I could somehow understand, but I consider myself being very intelectual and I found that there can be valid points behind unability to express oneself preciselly. I did not go through the transformation on rt, I have to investigate what it means, I don't have it availeble as direct experience. But it is obvious to me, that while what you described has to stay and is indestructible, something changes. The real point here is elsewhere though. Rt can be judged only through one consideration. Is it happy encounter or unhappy on the way of most seekers and why. I am sorry but I do not think that the waste of time argument will hold. Rt is passionate. Most people leave quickly, because it is pretty demanding to stay. In most cases, the encounter is very brief. There are some, that obviously were for a long time to find a cause to fight for. Well, Ciaran did not put this inside them, but now they could be able to find, that this is not a game, not that easy and it demands maybe more than they thought. Maybe you see the prophetic nature as an foolishness. But then only solution is to try and learn from failure. I say this - judging rt is not easy. It is not something that can be dismissed just like that. But you can observe lots of smugness about it, lots of self rigteousness. Why is that? I know, that the only way how to deal with what I am saying is to keep in mind that I have an agenda and motivation to fight for the group. Than any argument goes. Try to in fact consider the stuff I am trying to express. It is the most important question of my intelectuall path. Why it is so easy to judge something as bad, without proper reason, if there is a sense, that others will agree with you? |
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Post by stepvhen on Jan 3, 2011 14:01:21 GMT -5
Exciting stuff
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oldow
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Post by oldow on Jan 3, 2011 14:11:32 GMT -5
Yeah, I know what you are talking about. This is important point of view to hold imo. Seeing things in perspective, we just see, that everything is in its appropriate place. No sweat, yeah.
The interesting part comes when you try to include yourself into this view. This view traps hard, in my experience. There is a and there is b and I do not really feel right for objections to reality. The question is how the whole thing will appear once you include... not yourself, passion maybe, more like a personal dimension. Those impressions that are certain, but not observed in other people.
You see it all and you cannot unsee the right judgement that are not made, but seen also. Nice things and ugly ones.
Best to demonstrate by example. I love philosophy, but hate what is nowadays called by that name. Philosophy should be about a love for wisdom. To understand things for the purpose of just judgement for the purpose of just and good life.
But what "philosophers" do now is to attempt to describe the world for the purpose of agreement for the purpose of gaining respect in the field. It is obvious.
And is it not the mother of all problems?
I mean, I observed, this is what happens, but where is the place I could fill? It seems so solid, impossible to move. but once man is able to include the passion into the world, as another thing that acts, no shame, no excuses, things are even better and cooler.
It feels strange. Not very serious. But it is inevitable. It is what I found as right, not what I decided is right.
The same thing as in philosophy is done right here also. Stop it. The reason rt is despised is not its problems, but its virtues. See it. It has problems, but those are shared everywhere, maybe those are a bit stronger in rt, but still unimportant in deep examination.
like this one:
But what i try to communicate is that we can induce ourself in being whatever we think we are (believe me I am a master at this game) and that is too bad enough when we believe we are such a buided up concept of "me", but when we induce ourselves in believing we are "something that is not" or believing that we are "not" something this is much more difficult to get out of this "no-thing".
It is true, probably in most, certainly in some, I can see the same thing. But it is not the reason rt is controversial. It is not what rt is.
This problem is caused by ideology, when ideology dies, it goes away. This is the most important point. Lies can not stand opposition. Lies that are durable are always supported by agreement and usually obvious when opposition comes. Most people leave rt just because of this. They got manipulated and when they return into context of broad society, what seemed serious and certain suddenly seems absurd. So they got simply remanipulated.
This is the most important mechanism working in human existence to our disadvantage. Rt helps to see it and it is important to recognize. I don't argue against anything you said, you are not that stupid to claim things plainly untrue. I just want to ask - is it possible, that the group we belong to, that we identify with, makes us forget the broader context?
So, what is your passion, when you see the world, all the nice and worse things and dramas, what is to you the thing that makes you want to act?
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Post by stepvhen on Jan 3, 2011 14:12:46 GMT -5
Karen said; "let's end this with a song, shall we?" I concur, those enamored remain enamored, those opposed remain opposed. Stalemate. Fine, perhaps we all will meet again one day. Best wishes to all. But to answer oldow. I see "imagination" as my arch nemesis. When I looked at RT, imagination was all I saw. I thought my speaking out here might save a new seeker some time, if they were considering looking there for answers, but in hindsight I should remained silent. We all have had mis-steps, everything is a learning experience. Best of luck to you. Are you dumb? Over 80 people living in non dual abidance on one site. All of them reached that point on that site.... Who else in the world offers that? The amazing thing about the way we work is that our approach actually draws out the core of human delusion in people and brings it into the light. Right here we can see oldow trying to re-enforce himself as a highly intelligent genius who is above the triflings of mere mortals, while wynn would rather dabble in this and that to get an emotional buzz never actually awakening just getting her spiritual fix so that she can feel special. That is what we are about. Dragging that out into the open showing YOU why you are a lie. And giving you a way to fix that. But as many many people in this "industry" have pointed out. The vast vast amount of people get into spirituality not to awaken but to bury deeper still into a world of fantasy. Take a look around this thread. Liar after liar after liar. The fact that we can even bring you this level of honesty is a huge step. That we can bring it forward and open the door for you to live in non dual abidance scares people. It's not for anyone trapped in ego. Its for people who want to leave that behind. It's about growing up. Watch them scurry an argue to prove themselves. Ridiculous. Petty petty little children. The great spiritual master has spoken. He has proved his importance, we should all bow. Bow down to this mans magnificent egoless amazingness. If only we could all sit on our asses all day passing judgement on those who have actually lived that which we pretend we do, the world would be a much better place. Cultish really? Cults are for children little boy. Michael you talk constantly of getting by ego, as though you have. In fact almost every post you make, is about yourself. Which is ironic for one as Enlightened as yourself my good man. Your every post is riddled with lies designed to make you seem important, bigger than you actually are. I have not seen you offer a single post on this forum that was not designed as a testament to your own greatness. You truly are an action hero. You are the john rambo of the spiritual world and I for one am proud to basque in the luscious rays of your genius your exact character is documented here: burningtruedotcom.blogspot.com/2010/12/john-rambo.htmlWhen you get over yourself and your role as spiritual messiah king do be sure to delete every facetious thing you have ever written here, your inane cult of self ramblings drag down the average quality of the entire forum |
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Post by wynn on Jan 3, 2011 15:03:11 GMT -5
"...while wynn would rather dabble in this and that to get an emotional buzz never actually awakening just getting her spiritual fix so that she can feel special."
Sorry friend, I am male. Wow, you read a few sentences I wrote, and deciphered my entire spiritual journey, you are truly amazing sir. Unfortunately, nothing you wrote is even close to being accurate. That's the problem with your group - its all word based. You think your mind can unlock the secret door - it can not. Only silence can, and recognition that all is perfect exactly as it is.
How did your 80 prove their so-called enlightenment? With script? (laugh out loud)
All that is false will fall away. Eventually everyone in your group will see that your methods do not point to Truth. When that revelation comes to you, please come back here, and tell us your story.
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Post by stepvhen on Jan 3, 2011 15:29:44 GMT -5
I don't care about your journey I'm talking about your character. And yes I have. I told you you are fighting tooth and nail to uphold your self and lo and behold. Here you are. Telling me about yourself. See above. 
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oldow
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Post by oldow on Jan 3, 2011 15:59:53 GMT -5
As I said, how can you say this is not good and exciting? I might be a dried out intelectual, who can only get pleasure from proving that he is superhumanly intelligent, but the reality is so simple.
You have dug yourselves down into phrases and baseless appreciation. That you have gathered, if anything is meant to be used. It calls, if it is there to get voiced.
So yeah, why not get all the honesty there is and look and use the truth to argue instead of phrases this time?
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Post by wynn on Jan 3, 2011 16:01:49 GMT -5
You are a funny guy stepvhen. Always right, you are. At least in your own mind. But nowhere else.
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Post by angela on Jan 3, 2011 16:10:52 GMT -5
i haven't seen stepvhen once try to say he was right about anything. seriously. he's consistantly challenged us to look at our structures and foundations. but never once has he pushed a point or belief and backed it up with a sense of right.
and it really seems to me if he's pushing this many buttons, in fact if this many buttons are dangling out there to be pushed, then we all need to take a step backwards and look at what's really going on that we find ourselves able to be pushed in such a way.
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Post by m on Jan 3, 2011 16:26:20 GMT -5
love ! m i haven't seen stepvhen once try to say he was right about anything. seriously. he's consistantly challenged us to look at our structures and foundations. but never once has he pushed a point or belief and backed it up with a sense of right. and it really seems to me if he's pushing this many buttons, in fact if this many buttons are dangling out there to be pushed, then we all need to take a step backwards and look at what's really going on that we find ourselves able to be pushed in such a way. |
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Post by frankshank on Jan 3, 2011 16:34:52 GMT -5
I remember Lightmystic (a respected poster) commenting on a guy who he felt needed to integrate better. His name is Benjamin Smythe. I think the RT people probably fall into this category:
"Depending on the personality type, mania can very much be a part of the growth process, although it hopefully cools off a bit over time. When people get very excited about their experience, because any new one can be so overwhelming at first, there is a tendency often to want to hold it up and look at it. The problem with that is that is separates it from ourselves. In order to fully accept the experience, there has to be the recognition that everything is, and has always been, that way. Then the experience is grounded, and it can never go, no matter what. Because it's based on a recognition that has been fully accepted."
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Post by stepvhen on Jan 3, 2011 16:35:34 GMT -5
You are a funny guy stepvhen. Always right, you are. At least in your own mind. But nowhere else. No I'm not right I'm not even making an argument. I'm pointing towards the facts. I don't need to make an argument. You need to make one because you are clinging hard to your story. You need to argue and win to be the hero. I don't As I said, how can you say this is not good and exciting? I might be a dried out intelectual, who can only get pleasure from proving that he is superhumanly intelligent, but the reality is so simple. What are you talking about? Good? Please. It's a concept there's no good. What are you talking about. You're talking in absolutes as though this wasn't your own opinion. Which it is, and as such it's worthless and untrue to boot. If I recall correctly I took you to the very edge of your fantasy world and invited you to step over into reality. And what did you do? You ran. You ran away to hide. Your opinion doesn't matter. As I said to the other joker. I don't argue Thats it Angela thats it. Your clarity. Spot on. you are looking at the reality of this situation and not allowing your story/ego to get involved. |
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