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Post by michaelsees on Jan 1, 2011 19:09:36 GMT -5
I completely agree I called them out when they first posted here. The interesting thing was quite a few members actually bought into their crap when they first came here. I always been very sensitive to anything forming or formed as a cult and their whole site has "tells" all over it that it's very cultish. My only issue is they do no good at all but can and do quite a bit of harm to a sincere new seeker. Once anyone gets past their own ego these kinds of groups loose any kind of appeal they may had have. Michael I looked into RT. The place has no value whatsoever. None. False prophet. No one there has a clue. Most seekers don't. Admitting that is a good start. |
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oldow
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Post by oldow on Jan 1, 2011 23:54:09 GMT -5
Let me tell you something michaelsees.
You are very sensitive to anything that is forming as a cult, because you seem just generally to be sensitive to any appearance. Some things appear good, some don't, does not mean they are or are not.
The cults are not dangerous because they appear as cults. In fact this quality makes them more innocent, because they can be recognize quickly. The bad thing about cults is, that they hurt people.
Does rt hurt people? I don't know, you don't either of course. But I don't think there is any reason to think it does. I examined the place as closely as I was able to and the most significant pattern is that Ciaran, while he is by no means the best philosopher I read, is always better than those, who argue against him. The reason is of course very simple. He is honest.
I don't claim he is perfect by any means. But he is extraordinary. And sometimes it just is important to go into conflict to get things moving.
I mean, I have read so much selfindulgent shit over spiritual forums over the years, that is accepted just because it sounds good, that it is unbelievable. Saving the world? I don't know, but being the bad conscience of weak thinkers that consider themselves good? I am in 100%.
Your problem is that you try to twist the world in a shape that would be nice for the character that you believe you are in the center. It will not work.
Tell me, am I right? Who are you? Are you just?
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Post by m on Jan 2, 2011 5:54:47 GMT -5
It seems the barking crusade is still on  which does indeed look very much like a cult minded move. Being fair play, I was willing to go all the way to make things clear. I went on RT and ask for acces to the duel ground. Ciaran gave up within two three barking-mail, putting me on "spam". No coment. m Let me tell you something michaelsees. You are very sensitive to anything that is forming as a cult, because you seem just generally to be sensitive to any appearance. Some things appear good, some don't, does not mean they are or are not. The cults are not dangerous because they appear as cults. In fact this quality makes them more innocent, because they can be recognize quickly. The bad thing about cults is, that they hurt people. Does rt hurt people? I don't know, you don't either of course. But I don't think there is any reason to think it does. I examined the place as closely as I was able to and the most significant pattern is that Ciaran, while he is by no means the best philosopher I read, is always better than those, who argue against him. The reason is of course very simple. He is honest. I don't claim he is perfect by any means. But he is extraordinary. And sometimes it just is important to go into conflict to get things moving. I mean, I have read so much selfindulgent nuts over spiritual forums over the years, that is accepted just because it sounds good, that it is unbelievable. Saving the world? I don't know, but being the bad conscience of weak thinkers that consider themselves good? I am in 100%. Your problem is that you try to twist the world in a shape that would be nice for the character that you believe you are in the center. It will not work. Tell me, am I right? Who are you? Are you just? |
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Post by wynn on Jan 2, 2011 11:45:33 GMT -5
"Cult" is the wrong word. Just another group of lost sheep following a Shepard that is lost himself.
"Spirituality" can not be taught. "Helping others" is a false premise to begin with. "Know thyself" is the only path to liberation. "Thoughts" will not get you there.
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 2, 2011 12:30:38 GMT -5
Let me yell you something oldow.. Happy New Year used it well Michael (who admits I put my foot in my mouth sometimes! One thing my feet are always clean! Let me tell you something michaelsees. You are very sensitive to anything that is forming as a cult, because you seem just generally to be sensitive to any appearance. Some things appear good, some don't, does not mean they are or are not. The cults are not dangerous because they appear as cults. In fact this quality makes them more innocent, because they can be recognize quickly. The bad thing about cults is, that they hurt people. Does rt hurt people? I don't know, you don't either of course. But I don't think there is any reason to think it does. I examined the place as closely as I was able to and the most significant pattern is that Ciaran, while he is by no means the best philosopher I read, is always better than those, who argue against him. The reason is of course very simple. He is honest. I don't claim he is perfect by any means. But he is extraordinary. And sometimes it just is important to go into conflict to get things moving. I mean, I have read so much selfindulgent nuts over spiritual forums over the years, that is accepted just because it sounds good, that it is unbelievable. Saving the world? I don't know, but being the bad conscience of weak thinkers that consider themselves good? I am in 100%. Your problem is that you try to twist the world in a shape that would be nice for the character that you believe you are in the center. It will not work. Tell me, am I right? Who are you? Are you just? |
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oldow
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Post by oldow on Jan 2, 2011 15:36:59 GMT -5
Yeah wynn, I more or less agree, but the whole thing boils down to single consideration. If you know, what is desirable, no matter how difficult to share, are you going to just sit down doing nothing, or will you try to do something, even if it helped just one person?
And this is not that much a question of what effect is desirable, this is a question of where each path will lead you.
It is foolish, I agree and the benefits are doubtfull, but after I fought against them until ban, getting one person unconverted even, I thought about it a lot more and I had to admit, mo matter how foolish, Ciaran is doing a good work. He makes people think and reconsider. And you just can not claim with certainty that the benefits of the realization he provides are of no worth.
Is it completelly worthless to try to speak? Was there no words that helped you and inspired you? What about returning the favor?
If there was ever an argument suggesting that Ciaran does not do a good work, give me a link, or rephrase it for me please.
All arguments against are based just on this - he is foolish and once he will fall, because saving the world just is not possible and then we will laugh.
Those does not suggest that he in fact does anything bad. Those only suggest that you consider him an enemy, because he came to try to get you to do something which of course is unnaceptable.
If Ciaran is foolish, what that does make you? What are you doing and why? Those are important questions and I doubt it will be easy for you to find an answer.
Also he offending you means less than nothing. We are supposed to be over such motivations. Yet, that is something that is more than enything else certain, if he offended the glorious you, he cannot be doing the good work, right?
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 2, 2011 18:56:54 GMT -5
Actually cult is a proper word we are so use to the word being associated with something very negative when the word actually means is a body of believers so I stand by the word I used. However I do see no good reason for this group I been on their site, read the ebook and it's a complete waste. I went through the same process spending years and money on junk. The money never mattered but the time sure did.
These kind of things can have you working years only to find out their is no self.
It can be done in just a few mins if you know the right techniques. The no-self has no value really with most true seekers.
All the RT guys I seen are hypocrites and in a big way. Why?
They talk about things like saving the world bla bla bla but in defense you say something like your post above I quote
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"If Ciaran is foolish, what that does make you? What are you doing and why? Those are important questions and I doubt it will be easy for you to find an answer."
First important to who, that question can only be important if you have a agenda without that it's meaningless.
Secondly What I am doing with you and your group is working one on one as I see it on your group and that is how real change can happen it begins with you and another it does not go Macro like you guys pretend to . If you were real and useful in any sense of the word you would know this. However the idea to save someone or the world has no value their is no one there or world to save. This is where the cult part comes in a body of believers that believe they do not have a self and want to change the world by saving everyone! Sounds familiar it should.
Michael
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oldow
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Post by oldow on Jan 2, 2011 20:30:40 GMT -5
everybody has some path in life. You meet things, some good some bad.
It is in fact pretty difficult to decide, if Ciaran is one or the other. Is he a fool? Maybe. Is he immoral? I do not doubt you can get to that decision.
But why this decision? Again, is he happy encounter to others or does he harm? I had to conclude that all considered, he does a good job. Nothing else is important and nothing else I really wanted to debate here.
No one in the group claims they are going to change the world for sure. They say they are going to try. Naive? Maybe. Is it bad? I doubt it.
You want to say you are safe, because you do not have any agenda? Hardly. Everyone is part of the drama we call life. You want to claim that you carry no responsibility for what you say? I will not agree.
Tell me what is the reason why you don't like the thing. I claim that the function is rather simple.
We all get to situations, where we know we should act, but we do not. Once we encounter someone who in such situations in fact steps up to do something and we, reasonably, despise him. Because he endangers the integrity of the self.
Tell me, how I am wrong.
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 2, 2011 21:32:18 GMT -5
It's not so much that I dislike what you are creating though honestly it's more silly than false/waste of time at this point.
Which brings me to this point new seekers will be attracted to RT. What I do dislike is putting junk in the mind of the seekers. Why?
Because it's not true by any means and worst new seekers will get trap and waste a lot of time messing around with you guys. Why should I care because in truth it distills down to nothing but all things in the world and the world itself does that. However when a person awakens at least for myself I will say what I think to not say anything would be in conflict of my integrity.
Michael
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oldow
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Post by oldow on Jan 2, 2011 21:59:51 GMT -5
However when a person awakens at least for myself I will say what I think to not say anything would be in conflict of my integrity.
Fair enough, so what you say...
What I do dislike is putting junk in the mind of the seekers. Why?
Because it's not true by any means
Communication through internet is problematic, lots of times I understand something wrongly, we just miss the small signs that go with words, right?
But still, this is just a claim and I have not heard anything to back it up. Can you understand that from my point of view, it really seems that all you do is get smug and mighty because it is new and unusall and seems silly?
Because yeah, I know that seems silly. Unusual and naive things usually do. Does not make them bad.
But tell me, from your point of view of an enlightened man, what is not putting junk in the minds of seekers? Maybe some poetry and good novels. Some music. End of story. There is so much junk, it is incredible. Not in conflict with your integrity?
Can you understand, Michael, that while Ciaran might seem silly to you, you very much seem just plainly stupid? All selfrighteous without any attempt to give a good reason?
Maybe you are not. I am not the one to decide. But still, just those few words,
There is no you
Seems to work.
Seems lots of people do get something out of it.
Does it seem as something deserving nothing more than refusal with a wave of a hand, without any reason?
Because I just cannot find the reason that it is a junk. And trust me, I tried, so maybe you could help me out here.
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Post by michaelsees on Jan 3, 2011 0:39:49 GMT -5
Seriously I can tell you why it's junk/trash so can quite a few members here have also seen what I seen and called it a waste and trash.. The only difference is I much more "verbal" than them.
I can tell you why it's trash but all that will do is give you more to debate with.
Someday hopefully you will understand it's clear you are not there yet.
Any how I am officially done with this thread I said more than my peace.
Have a good year
Michael
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Post by karen on Jan 3, 2011 1:00:30 GMT -5
Very good. Let's end it with a song shall we?
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Post by souley on Jan 3, 2011 2:43:11 GMT -5
Very good. Let's end it with a song shall we Karma point |
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oldow
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Post by oldow on Jan 3, 2011 3:08:06 GMT -5
that is always a good idea
well, all was said except the only important thing than. I don't think that I was unfair oponent or anything and rt is not perfect, there are valid points to be raised, but well.
I would say I wonder why you even bother to come into debate forum while you don't like to debate, but that would not be fair, I know why that is.
Someday hopefully you will understand it's clear you are not there yet
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Post by m on Jan 3, 2011 4:33:53 GMT -5
Everything perfect as it is... even debate. Even if all labels can become traps ("Awareness", "prior to awareness"...and so many others we use in our posts) , the way of the "no you", "no me", "no I" is one of the most risky because ( when it "works"),it sends a lot of people in a "no...land" believing this is all there is, becoming kind of gost, speaking like robots... kind of spacing out... In this matter I find the ZD' "do the dishes!", much more right to the point... and "you" are to be "there" to "do" the dishes! A no-person cannot do anything! Nowhere! Never! So what ? Not a big deal of course! but if we accept the RT criteria of relieving pain, the "no you" game is a lost of time... and for some people a big big lost of time. m Seriously I can tell you why it's junk/trash so can quite a few members here have also seen what I seen and called it a waste and trash.. The only difference is I much more "verbal" than them. I can tell you why it's trash but all that will do is give you more to debate with. Someday hopefully you will understand it's clear you are not there yet. Any how I am officially done with this thread I said more than my peace. Have a good year Michael |
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which does indeed look very much like a cult minded move.
