Ruthless Truth

[maverick09]

peter said:

Well Ok, if you think what you're doing is going to make the world a better place, I respect your free will.

Thank you mate.

I'll respect you too if you care to join in on making the world a better place as well.

[angela]

@maverick - i hear your passion and i am grateful that is how it flows for you. honestly and truly. i do get the message, i really do.

i don't intuitively get the feel that everyone from your group is as... forthright. i really get the sense of nihilism threaded throughout a lot that i've read there. and just from my own experience, i know that the nihilism comes when you're not really living from a fully empty center.... but veered a hair to the left or right, into a space where instead of just *knowing* there is no self, you also *believe* it.

it's just how i roll, i tend toward the womanly/careful type of energy. although, to be fair, kali was a woman. she loved so hard, and with such skill, she could behead you while you were still smiling. everyone has their method, mate.

[maverick09]

Dec 30, 2010 14:29:33 GMT -5 angela said:

@maverick - i hear your passion and i am grateful that is how it flows for you. honestly and truly. i do get the message, i really do.

Hey Angela, thanks for the appreciation.

Everyone here are good awesome people who have great insights already, but if they could just leave their 'quest for truth' for a while and actually start helping people out before they say 'you know what.. i am going to the mountaintop to contemplate things' and not leave their fellow travellers who are entirely lost in this thing will I be grateful.

I really will be thankful the day if people really start giving a s.hit.

Seriously.

i know that the nihilism comes when you're not really living from a fully empty center.... but veered a hair to the left or right, into a space where instead of just *knowing* there is no self, you also *believe* it.

As I said before, people at RT, those that know this 'no you' thing.. its not a question of belief anymore... they just know now.

But you see, its not magic this 'no you' thing, people still have to earn bread, deal with things etc.... but this insight is very powerful indeed.

And it needs to be spread first before people inquire and talk poetry about 'awareness that is infinite' and stuff where they still feel separateness (illusion of self)

it's just how i roll, i tend toward the womanly/careful type of energy. although, to be fair, kali was a woman. she loved so hard, and with such skill, she could behead you while you were still smiling. everyone has their method, mate.

Angela, you're too feminine... that's actually great, i love that energy, and your loving and caring might help someone see things because they will actually listen to you rather than listen to someone who is harsh and outrightly rude.

This femininity in you is great... you just need to bring in some focus to it.. just a little focus and it will work..... because people will actually take your words to heart if you could really infuse your peace with some fire.

Yin and Yang - Kali, a perfect example really.

[karen]

Dec 30, 2010 12:52:47 GMT -5 maverick09 said:

booyah5 said:

But I'm beyond pestering all those disinterested souls around me about this. I actually use to do that when I was indeed a "noob".

If you are well beyond your stage of "noob" its time to give back something to humanity. And i am not encouraging that any one not interested in spirtuality etc should be forced to look at this, but for someone who is willing to enter this realm and seeks truth - this one sight is very helpful.

Don't betray us mate.... help those who can't help themselves... please.

Friend, let me tell you... I've had this image running through my head from square one about me helping people with this. But only AFTER I am finished. Why string a bunch of half baked seekers together? Why not dive deep and focus all your primary efforts onto that in your experience that never changes.

Seeing no self intellectually isn't a big deal. Like Adyashanti's mentioned before, why would one ask "Who am I?" if not for the fact that they looked inside and couldn't find anything?

[Peter]

Dec 30, 2010 13:01:35 GMT -5 maverick09 said:

I'll respect you too if you care to join in on making the world a better place as well.

That's some pretty conditional love you've got going on there.

"I'll respect you if you do what I want you to do"

what does that remind me of...?


See now, on the question of making the world a better place, take the example of the invasion of Iraq. Two million people protested against that war in the UK alone - the largest demonstration in the history of demonstrations - and it made not one whit of difference to the UK or US Governments. So assuming that those demonstrating people were seeing the situation clearly and were acting rationally, then what difference would it make if they were "Awake" or not? It's the people who are in control who need to be woken up, but somehow, I don't think they want to. Don't tell me we live in a Democracy, what a joke.

PS And happy birthday for tomorrow! 23, an auspicious number. And if that's not your real birthday that you've entered, well not to worry. If the Queen can have more than one birthday so can you

[maverick09]

peter said:

That's some pretty conditional love you've got going on there.

"I'll respect you if you do what I want you to do"

I never said - 'i'll respect you if you do what I want you to do'.

I said i'll respect you if you care to give a s.hit about humanity. If that seems to be too large a task for you - then in my eyes I don't respect you.

And mate look closely cuz you didn't for the first time - it isn't conditional love, its conditional respect.

Jesus probably loved everyone but respected only a few, and especially not the authority in charge during his times.

See now, on the question of making the world a better place, take the example of the invasion of Iraq. Two million people protested against that war in the UK alone - the largest demonstration in the history of demonstrations - and it made not one whit of difference to the UK or US Governments. So assuming that those demonstrating people were seeing the situation clearly and were acting rationally, then what difference would it make if they were "Awake" or not? It's the people who are in control who need to be woken up, but somehow, I don't think they want to. Don't tell me we live in a Democracy, what a joke.

That right there mate is your utter irrational justification for not doing a thing and reeks of an attitude of complacency.

Your reasons seem strong, you even have proof that 'nothing makes a difference'.. but hell... what kind of a living soul not try to do something that COULD (not even WOULD) make a difference. If someone's not ready to do something like that he is probably dead inside already.

PS And happy birthday for tomorrow! 23, an auspicious number. And if that's not your real birthday that you've entered, well not to worry. If the Queen can have more than one birthday so can you

Well, yeah. Its not my bday. But thanks anyway.

[maverick09]

booyah5 said:

Friend, let me tell you... I've had this image running through my head from square one about me helping people with this.

Great!

But only AFTER I am finished. Why string a bunch of half baked seekers together? Why not dive deep and focus all your primary efforts onto that in your experience that never changes.

Really mate?

This is your answer for not helping somebody who is struggling on his path because you yourself are not beyond all struggle yet?

Really?

And its not half baked seekers mate... it is not some RA RA session of absolute mystical and magical theory that is not grounded in truth. This 'no self' thing is true, and if you could just bring people to this gate, even while you yourself struggle... that's some real help right there. That's what being human really is.

Seeing no self intellectually isn't a big deal.

Its not theory mate... its not an intellectual agreement. Its something which is just true and people who see this really get to experience and understand what all the stuff people from down the ages have been talking about.

Like Adyashanti's mentioned before, why would one ask "Who am I?" if not for the fact that they looked inside and couldn't find anything?

I'll give you this vid for Adyashanti, and I am pretty sure people have struggled to get his message even though it is pretty simple.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQT6FWOmkOU

What percentage of people actually 'got' his message?

Take a guess.

I'm willing to bet not more than 0.5% of those.... because people still can't see the gate.

Isn't this what Adyashanti is talking about and wants people to know but they still aren't able to grasp it because the gate is too small??

How about bringing this to them? Won't that be 'help'??

[Peter]

Dec 31, 2010 9:42:08 GMT -5 maverick09 said:

And its not half baked seekers mate... it is not some RA RA session of absolute mystical and magical theory that is not grounded in truth.

Funny that you should mention Ra Ra sessions. Have you read the Ra (Law of One) Sessions? I got a lot out of them. Takes quite an open mind to get into them though; for many years I would just have dismissed what's written here as Utter Nonsense. Now I find them quite inspiring.

wiki.lawofone.info/index.php/Main_Page

[Portto]

Dec 31, 2010 9:42:08 GMT -5 maverick09 said:

How about bringing this to them?

Just as there is 'no you' there is 'no them' either...

[Peter]

Dec 31, 2010 9:31:16 GMT -5 maverick09 said:

I said i'll respect you if you care to give a s.hit about humanity. If that seems to be too large a task for you - then in my eyes I don't respect you.

I'm happy to report that I do care and put (some) time and energy into actually doing something for humanity. Not the same thing you're doing of course, but still it's intended to help and neither of us are getting paid for it - at least, I assume you're earning a living through some other means, as I am.

Dec 31, 2010 9:31:16 GMT -5 maverick09 said:

And mate look closely cuz you didn't for the first time - it isn't conditional love, its conditional respect.

Jesus probably loved everyone but respected only a few, and especially not the authority in charge during his times.

Do you see love and respect as being so different, that you could have one without the other Maverick? I don't.

Also a picky point, but the authorities in charge didn't have a particular problem with Jesus and I can't think of any instance of him not respecting them (eg "Render unto Caeser that which is Caeser's"), at least, that's what it says in the Good Book. Although right enough he did compare tax collectors to prostitutes, but he respected them too. It was the the priests who wanted him done in - the direct competition you might say.

Dec 31, 2010 9:31:16 GMT -5 maverick09 said:

That right there mate is your utter irrational justification for not doing a thing and reeks of an attitude of complacency.

Well I'm sure I could do more, quite true.
My point (and it's a point born of frustration) is that if 2 million voices can be ignored in the pursuit of peace, then how many voices would be needed - regardless of how spiritually evolved those voices might be?

Dec 31, 2010 9:31:16 GMT -5 maverick09 said:

Your reasons seem strong, you even have proof that 'nothing makes a difference'.. but hell... what kind of a living soul not try to do something that COULD (not even WOULD) make a difference. If someone's not ready to do something like that he is probably dead inside already.

Hey, I never said I had proof, Maverick. I presented an anecdote, nothing more. The question is, given that we all have a limited amount of time and energy, what is the most efficient way to make a difference? If two million (out of 60 million) people can be ignored, what would not be ignored? 30 million?

Bear in mind that our local tabloid readership (The Sun pro-war) outnumbers (to pick an alternative popular anti-war view) The Guardian by 21:1.

So if someone realised "No Self", do you think they'd stop reading what The Man wants them to read? Or is it more likely that they'll not have been reading it in the first place?

Taking control of the media - always been the quickest way to bring about change. Also worth reading The Protocols and mentally replace any reference to Jew with "Fat Cat" to see if it makes more sense.

[Peter]

Dec 31, 2010 10:29:16 GMT -5 Portto said:

Dec 31, 2010 9:42:08 GMT -5 maverick09 said:

How about bringing this to them?

Just as there is 'no you' there is 'no them' either...

Well someone must be filling in those ballot papers.

[karen]

I think we've jumped the shark here...

[Peter]

<Sigh> Did I grow the beard for nothing?!

[maverick09]

[quote author=peter board=discussion thread=1100 post=12584 time=1293811874
I'm happy to report that I do care and put (some) time and energy into actually doing something for humanity. Not the same thing you're doing of course, but still it's intended to help and neither of us are getting paid for it - at least, I assume you're earning a living through some other means, as I am.
[/quote]

That's good man. Respect.

Do you see love and respect as being so different, that you could have one without the other Maverick? I don't.

I do, Peter.

As far as I can tell, love is about seeing every human equal and loving them for their humanity. But respect comes with what a human being does with the choices he makes.

'Hate the sin, not the sinner' type thing.

Also a picky point, but the authorities in charge didn't have a particular problem with Jesus and I can't think of any instance of him not respecting them (eg "Render unto Caeser that which is Caeser's"), at least, that's what it says in the Good Book. Although right enough he did compare tax collectors to prostitutes, but he respected them too. It was the the priests who wanted him done in - the direct competition you might say.

Yeah exactly. But see, whats important is that he took a stance against someone/something because he didn't respect the choices they made. He knew they were wrong.

Infact Jesus also wasnt all peace and absence of violence etc.... he got mad angry at the temple too right?

Well I'm sure I could do more, quite true.
My point (and it's a point born of frustration) is that if 2 million voices can be ignored in the pursuit of peace, then how many voices would be needed - regardless of how spiritually evolved those voices might be?

I don't exactly how its gonna make a difference even if the voices are spiritually evolved, but look - the voices of Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tzu are still heard in every corners of the world and are respected more than any authority...... people heed these voices mate... they really do.

And I am not trying to compare any one of us to them, but if they were the EVEREST and the world listened to them, the world might listen to us also even if we are small mountains but we are a ten million in number.

Hey, I never said I had proof, Maverick. I presented an anecdote, nothing more. The question is, given that we all have a limited amount of time and energy, what is the most efficient way to make a difference? If two million (out of 60 million) people can be ignored, what would not be ignored? 30 million?

That's true mate, its disheartening to see good efforts by millions go to waste. It really is a crazy world we are living in.

But don't lose heart mate because millions have failed in the past. I surely know for a fact that if a handful of men have the heart they can engulf the whole world with their fire.

So if someone realised "No Self", do you think they'd stop reading what The Man wants them to read? Or is it more likely that they'll not have been reading it in the first place?

Taking control of the media - always been the quickest way to bring about change. Also worth reading The Protocols and mentally replace any reference to Jew with "Fat Cat" to see if it makes more sense.

Yes, but the openings in media and the control of it can only be successful if we get and spread the message so well that it catches upto them.

[wynn]

I looked into RT. The place has no value whatsoever. None. False prophet.

No one there has a clue. Most seekers don't. Admitting that is a good start.