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Post by michaelsees on Nov 26, 2010 17:14:54 GMT -5
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Post by enigma on Nov 26, 2010 18:01:34 GMT -5
Well, sure, but how does it relate to anthropology? Hehe.
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Post by m on Nov 27, 2010 6:12:07 GMT -5
Michaelsees: I love you. I thank for the really nice drawing. Do I need to be a "person" to enjoy "patterns, shapes, forms" and even "contents" ? Do I need to be a "person" to enjoy talking about all theses in this forum ? Is there anything prior to awareness and non-awareness ? Enigma:Well, sure, but how does it relate to anthropology? Hehe. I like your question m
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louij
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by louij on Nov 27, 2010 8:20:12 GMT -5
Could we be knocking on the door from the inside..... no the door is knocking on you inside..... watching lady gaga and the producer of avatar....... our imagination is part of a record of experiences..... the so called mental institutions are full of souls expressing.... that is it expressing. They are out of the frame of reference for most NORMAL PEOPLE, i am not normal at all........ the only pass time we have on this plane is to play...... we may do this without harming others, but most of us harm the self......... time is parallel, what some people THINK OF AS PAST LIFE is current simultaneous...... in these present time - frame of reference - children incarnated NOW are experiencing extreme trauma, on a natural level, with their peers because they are seeking velocity, so drugs are a huge comeon...... rememberance is not wiped any longer we - re...member a lot of stuff. i work with children particularly well, in getting them to paint, draw, describe or write their dream time.... it is an obvious revelation to me, that normal is passe.....hehheh the Jesus as he is portrayed in the written work the Bible... is a small portion of what he truly was..... he was not a peacemaker........ he was and is a truth walking.......... and did not die on - any cross.
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Post by robert on Nov 27, 2010 9:43:58 GMT -5
okay- this thing slid off of the track about 3 days ago. if i were any of you moderately interested in waking the heck up, i would stick to things that i can see and/or touch. if the person, from maharshi to jesus to god himself cannot walk up and shake your hand then it would probably be smart to leave them out of the conversation.
also all belief systems are beginning to look more and more like crowd control. i am blown away at the levels of self deception we are willing to participate in on a minute to minute basis, and when i see the depths to which we are willingly led to the great tread mills upon which we slave in the hopes of a good life after we have already died. oh yes look at that DIED. (and lets head this off at the pass this is not atheism because atheists are still concerned with god. they are just proselytizing in opposition to god.)
all of this comes down to making each and every second of life more and more important. when you wake up and realize that this is the only chance that you cabin, you peanut, you louij, you sky, you michael, you charlie,... are going to get to wake up and see what is standing right in front of your face. when i am tempted to look back and be seriously pissed (sorry) at the amount of time i wasted looking either forward or back for some future reward. well that my friends is hell, expectantly waiting for some thing that is not coming.
robert
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Post by zendancer on Nov 27, 2010 13:03:36 GMT -5
r: I understand where you're coming from, but I don't agree that this discussion has slid off track. It seems to be perfectly on track to me--LOL. Each of us is expressing our understanding as well as we can through words. Some of us are talking past each other. Some of us are in total agreement even though our words are different. Some of us are talking from deep within the illusion of consensual reality, some of us have had a glimpse of the real world and are trying to see more of it, and some of us have seen through the one who appears to be the see-er and are free of that illusion. All of this is the perfect manifestation of "what is" as it plays in emptiness.
Those who have escaped the illusion are all standing here with arms outstretched and fingers pointing at what is radically here and now--at the actual. Some people are looking where the fingers are pointing, but haven't yet seen what is in front of their eyes. Other people are looking at all of the different fingers (different sets of words) and thinking about how the words conflict with their understanding. This, too, is perfect.
In a sense, this is what is happening here:
A sage speaks to a student while pointing at what can be imagined as "a tree:" Look. Do you see what is in front of your eyes? Student: Yes, a tree. Sage: Look again. A "tree" is what you think or imagine. What do you see? Student (appearing mystified): Nothing? Sage: "Nothing" is what you think. What do you see with your eyes? Student (appearing more mystified): God? Sage: "God" is what you think. What do you see? Student (after a long silence): I don;t know. Sage: Excellent! That is true. You don't know, and now you know that you don't know. You now know that you are existentially ignorant. So, keep that state of silent not-knowing, but continue looking at what is in front of your eyes. If thoughts appear, gently shift your awareness back to what the eyes see. Stay present and continue looking.
A few students will appreciate what the sage has said and will do what the sage says.
Most students will quickly lose interest and their attention will return to their ideas about the world and their personal issues.
Some students will get irritated and want to argue with the sage, or, they will tell all of their friends that the sage is crazy, or, they will say that the sage should be doing something that they think is more important than silently pointing. Students in this category will not realize that the sage has no choice in what she does. She does what she does out of pure love. No matter what happens she will continue to silently point to the truth whether or not anyone looks where the finger is pointing. That is her job, and she is very simple-minded. If someone tries to argue with her, she will not get mad; she will simply point once more to the actual. She will never get distracted because she loves the actual and knows through direct experience the importance of knowing the actual and the joy of being the actual. She is willing to ignore or patiently deal with thousands of distractions in the off chance that one student will see where her finger is pointing and then look until the actual is seen.
This is, in Byron Katie's words, "the way of it." It is mysterious but perfect!
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Post by michaelsees on Nov 27, 2010 13:07:18 GMT -5
Dear Robert,
I will recommend a big large chill pill for you now as it sounds like you had a moment of frustrations as we all do time to time bro. I know you mean well but you need to be careful in making these kinds of assumptions. It does not become you. There is no such thing as having only so much time to wake up. This is just another illusion. You already must know this. Sometimes people who feel they got it speak as you just posted, but I tell you the truth a "person" that is truly awaken does not act a certain way. On the outer there may seem no change at all depending on the person personality. It's best that you take care of Robert and if you wish to name names then stay with Robert lest you become looked at as some kind of"awakening fundamentalist" I also have been "guilty" of this from time to time.
Remember all is perfect and ok. For myself this forum is like a coffee break for me. I can lite up a smoke and just chat among friends.
with love Michael
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Post by michaelsees on Nov 27, 2010 13:20:19 GMT -5
M Love you too!
Michael
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Post by michaelsees on Nov 27, 2010 18:01:35 GMT -5
Cabin,
Just curious what do you do with dreams then?
Many of my dreams are well define with nice colors and sometimes small kernels of truth. I am a good lucid dreamer which means I am aware that I am dreaming by waking myself up in the dream I become a witness. thanks Michael
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Post by robert on Nov 27, 2010 18:42:20 GMT -5
my friends i call 'em like i see 'em. and i have never been happier in my entire life.
robert
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Post by michaelsees on Nov 27, 2010 18:58:04 GMT -5
Maybe Robert but when you begin judging others and mentioning names you separate yourself as I know it all you you don't. Robert if you were at the place you believe yourself to be you simply would not do something like this. There is really no difference between what you posted vs fundamental born again Christians that say you are going to hell if you continue on your path. In truth Robert there is no difference here. As a matter of fact the more you go within the harder it is to say anything about a person but there are exceptions. Michael my friends i call 'em like i see 'em. and i have never been happier in my entire life. robert
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Post by enigma on Nov 27, 2010 22:37:06 GMT -5
I don't pretend to know what christian science says, but the body is innocent and the senses aren't creating illusion. The mind creates illusion as it interprets, and so maybe it's this interpretation they're trying to avoid. Dunno but I believe it's what Zen is talking about avoiding. Even optical illusions are in the interpretation.
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Post by enigma on Nov 27, 2010 22:52:01 GMT -5
Hi Michael I found myself going back twice to read Roberts post to see what all the fuss was about, and it was the third read when I noticed your name listed, and quite a bit of clarity magically showed up. So does it matter?
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Post by zendancer on Nov 27, 2010 22:57:51 GMT -5
Cabin: You wrote, "If you read over Zendancers post he says to go with the senses and get away from the mind but what he doesn't seem to realise is other teachings say the complete opposite, for example Christian Science says the material world is an illusion and the senses are illusionary....."
Please don't get attached to my words. Look where the words are pointing. What does CS mean by the statement "The material world is an illusion?" Do you understand? Zen Masters often say the same thing, but what is their meaning? Is it the same or different?
One Zen student in Japan, thinking that he understood this teaching, sat down on the tracks in front of the bullet train near Tokyo, convinced that the train was an illusion in an illusory world. Do I need to say that he got totally smushed? He got smushed because he didn't understand what the words were pointing to. If you think the material world is an illusion, then go hit your hand with a hammer. See if your pain is an illusion, but please don't try sitting on the tracks in front of an Amtrak locomotive. We would miss your postings on the board. Currently, you are writing about teachings that you don't understand, just like the Zen student who got smushed near Tokyo.
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Post by michaelsees on Nov 27, 2010 23:31:29 GMT -5
Nope of course I can careless I was only advising not to set yourself up like that as from personal experience it's not beneficial. Michael Hi Michael I found myself going back twice to read Roberts post to see what all the fuss was about, and it was the third read when I noticed your name listed, and quite a bit of clarity magically showed up. So does it matter?
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