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Post by michaelsees on Nov 27, 2010 23:37:02 GMT -5
Well if you wish to take that view "in reality there are no animals to get hurt" This is just pure intellectualism and it can be quite dangerous. Even though "in reality there is no such thing as a person, body or even mind" but you will still feel pain, feel sad, get confused etc. Michael Reality is animals do not get hurt and plants do not die. We must shift our consciousness to truth. We must get in reality.. the illusion can be dispelled, revealing the present spiritual reality. The only way to do this is to understand Gods nature, to become present with God. Through prayer and doing good deeds.
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Post by enigma on Nov 28, 2010 0:40:02 GMT -5
So what is wrong ?? Is it the senses that are actually misleading us? Or is it the mind ? Or is it both? Both some would say. When i look in nature and see an injured animal or dying plant, i know this is not reality, it is an illusion. So what is lying to me? The senses or the mind? Or both? What we see when we see anything bad is a counterfeit. Reality is animals do not get hurt and plants do not die. We must shift our consciousness to truth. We must get in reality.. the illusion can be dispelled, revealing the present spiritual reality. The only way to do this is to understand Gods nature, to become present with God. Through prayer and doing good deeds. Animals are born and die. Plants sprout from seeds, grow, and die. What makes you think that's not reallity? What is not reality is the idea that this is somehow bad or wrong or illusory or can't be happening in reality. This is the sort of illusion that comes from too much thinking about it. These CS quotes are saying the same thing: They are talking about illusion being created in the mind. They just don't differentiate between what the body senses and what the mind thinks about it.
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Post by skyblue on Nov 28, 2010 6:58:20 GMT -5
Now most nondualists (all?) would claim to hold that position. But very few actually live up to it.
How do you know this? Are you personally in touch with all nondualists? Your statements are generalized and extreme.
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Post by zendancer on Nov 28, 2010 7:30:58 GMT -5
Cabin: If you're happy with CS, and if it solves all of your problems, then that's wonderful. Enjoy your life.
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Post by m on Nov 28, 2010 9:08:56 GMT -5
Oupsss, I'am coming late on this one. although it's a big one for me. At this point i beg your feed back on my "understanding" (spirit-mind-heart-body and soul) :-)
REALITY IS WHAT IS APPEARENCES ARE NO MORE, NO LESS THAN APPEARANCES OF THE REALITY NOT APPEARENCE, NOT REALITY, ILLUSION IS ONLY ILLUSION
m
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Post by zendancer on Nov 28, 2010 9:36:19 GMT -5
Reality is "what is." Yes, but "what is" includes everything, even illusion.
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Post by robert on Nov 28, 2010 9:51:12 GMT -5
michael- i mentioned the names of people whose names came to mind first. peanut and i e-mail each other daily i would consider her a friend in discussions of this nature. and i can promise that if i were trying to be insulting everyone would be included. i consider myself an equal opportunity insulter. to anyone whose feelings were hurt by me i sincerely apologize.
i have come to a place where the footing seems less certain, and yet i know that it is closer to the truth . i always assumed that i would be awe-struck and wonder-filled, but when seen from the proper perspective it is literally the only outcome that this story, my story, could have had. i have work to do here, there are errant aspects of ego that are not going to just give up without a struggle. (he's been in charge too long.) this "thing" is standing right behind you whispering in your ear, just clear the mind and walk straight into what you most fear. " there are two mistakes one can make on the road to TRUTH, one is not going all the way, the other is not starting." buddha-
r.
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Post by m on Nov 28, 2010 9:51:57 GMT -5
Thank you ZD:
Indeed! Reality includes illusion... which is nothing but illusion. In a kind of funny thinking way, at times i wonder if illusion might not be what amazes me the most :-)
m
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Post by m on Nov 28, 2010 9:54:26 GMT -5
Robert, tell your friend this "Buddha" that I like what he said. m
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Post by robert on Nov 28, 2010 10:23:47 GMT -5
the real obstacle to progress is the constant bombardment of the mind with these ideas that only cloud the water. there is no clarity or even common sense in issues that have no bearing at all on truth. it is simply amazing to see the depths an ego any ego will go to to maintain the illusion of authority. it is a tremendous waste to allow ones limited live energy to simply wash down the drain. enough of mine has been wasted.
p.s. cabin people will stop responding to you if you continue in this vein.
r.
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Post by zendancer on Nov 28, 2010 10:33:50 GMT -5
Cabin: Again, don't get attached to teaching words. Look where the words are pointing. Every statement is both true and false at the same time and Jacobsen knows this. In his response to the woman, Jacobsen was trying to shake her loose from her conventional ideas about the world and wake her up to the Absolute.
This reminds me of the story about the Zen Master who was walking with his student when some geese flew overhead. The ZM asked, "Where have they gone?" The student replied, "They're already flown away." The ZM suddenly grabbed the student's nose and twisted it while shouting, "How could they possibly have gone anywhere?" His student was much riper than the woman Jacobsen was dealing with, and the ZM's words triggered a big cosmic consciousness experience. The ZM's words stopped his mind, opened up a circuit to the Absolute, and he suddenly saw the previously hidden world that the ZM lives in.
Look for what lies beyond words and ideas.
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Post by enigma on Nov 28, 2010 12:05:29 GMT -5
michael- i mentioned the names of people whose names came to mind first. Well, in that case, why wasn't I mentioned?? Am I not memorable enough?? Hmph!.....Well I never! tehe
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Post by enigma on Nov 28, 2010 12:25:42 GMT -5
Cabin, if your comments were in the form of questioning, or even challenging, a useful discussion might result, but they seem to take the form of accusations about something you don't seem to understand, and so i don't detect any openness in it. Maybe this is just your way of exploring, I dunno.
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Post by m on Nov 28, 2010 12:34:53 GMT -5
Why do I have the idea-sense.. that all of you are both right and wrong ? And that something important and not important is going on ? m
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Post by enigma on Nov 28, 2010 13:22:07 GMT -5
I don't know, but I always get that sense when I'm really confused. Hehe.
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