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Post by skyblue on Nov 25, 2010 16:30:33 GMT -5
"Another interesting development is I thought I would be more of hermit the farther down the path but the opposite is happening. I seem to be engaging more and more. Relationships are more fulfilling"
That's interesting because I am noticing the same thing happening with me.
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Post by michaelsees on Nov 25, 2010 17:33:00 GMT -5
"Could Rumi possibly be correct? Could we be knocking on the door from the inside?"
Yes is a way Rumi was spot on. Here's my take a little crazy but what's not.
Basically we have our brain which is in the head of most of us. Everything you see in the world, taste, touch , feel etc happens by use of the brain. If you do just a little rewire job on the brain you can make a person see their taste, see different colors by different smells, or if they touch or get touch you can taste a favorite food etc. The brain is a filter which is fed by the mind, made by the mind and exists for the mind. So naturally people that are wired in certain ways will love certain ideas, things etc that the mind gives and the brain senses. This is why you can say "botany" is much more enjoyable for you.
Here's the kicker their exist even something beyond the mind. To sense this, to see this, touch this, taste this and smell this well it's not automatic like smelling flowers or tasting ice cream at first. It takes some effort in stillness to begin opening up these senses. Now for most since it's not very apparent that this realm even exist then it's not that interesting. But for those that even had a small taste of this new world it becomes so consuming and wanted that anything else becomes dull.
Anyways only my opinion I'm sure your millage will very.
Well time for a nap I am OD on turkey.
Michael
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Post by michaelsees on Nov 25, 2010 18:22:36 GMT -5
Cabin,
Think about it. If you are a member of a auto mechanics forum and you spoke as you did here saying why limit auto mechanic lets talk about massage therapy, healing, spirituality, religion how do you think that would go over?
Sure you can spiritualize most anything but that's not why most of the members are here.
BTW You folks have anything similar to our thanksgiving day?
take care Michael
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Post by klaus on Nov 25, 2010 18:49:55 GMT -5
science, physics, geology, botany, archeology, cosmology, philosophy, ecology, biology, chemistry, religion All of the above are fascinating. Why limit spirituality to nonduality? cabin, I see words like science, physics, geology.... as limiting by definition. A prison if you like. If you get down to it we don't know what anything is, try as you might by defining it with a collection of words as those stated above. On the contrary a non-dual view of what these words define and therefore limit frees this mundane world into the limitless.
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louij
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by louij on Nov 25, 2010 19:35:32 GMT -5
this is end of days, when the spirit is taking back the power of source. at satsang sunday we had a letter from the master of the path of shabd, sound, and light. he has identified that the teacher has taken over and the student is being abused somewhat by the intellectual ... under...standing which is rampant in this now.
he has implemented new rules, a satsangi who has gone within, met her master in the radiant form, and who is now at his behest dealing with very close seekers to her, by giving them initiation in the name of her master..... is not to be recognised.
ching hai is said to be a non master.... let me tell you a truth, if and unless YOU ARE THE MASTER all this talk of non duality is just another pathway to MIS UNDERSTANDING.
we are given one gift, you to me, and i to you, in the human condition.... we have one promise from the source, that if we love without judgment the next portal will open.
so i understand this topic very seriously. if it contaminates a conversation and harms someone in soul, it is non teaching..... if you are the blessing on all levels, kiss the trees, to play in the brook in the water that is free that flows giving life force.
like Ian and his accident there is a huge bigger plan conducted by the greatest conductor, the essence.... be part of the music.
FOR ME IT IS SIMPLE DO NO HARM.....the poetry here is sufficient, the story of Ian and his walk is sufficient, the coming here and just telling your view IS THE TEACHING... how it is received, however, is a non event.
if you come here and bounce stuff that causes a break-through for your soul to pilot you, then ....... that is why we come here to .... en..lighten...the loud, the chaos, the hugely frightening happenings on this earthplane, like a seven year old raping his two year old sister.... that for me says it all, no matter how many of us strive for wisdom... the pocket of chaos exist.
for me, one of my tasks daily is to big good journey to a persian cat called frank..... that is the work, to kiss him daily and play with him while he seeks a space to hide and leave... love evolve louij
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louij
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by louij on Nov 25, 2010 19:39:08 GMT -5
let us debate, but not to the point of argument... let us respect, yes, even me, i need to back off..... but always let us walk in power of truth........ read stuart wilde..... redemption...... open the next portal, and prop the door open for a seeker hard on your heels.... adventuring into freedom.
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Post by robert on Nov 25, 2010 20:21:52 GMT -5
i spent years walking around the truth. for me non duality makes the most sense. why would i waste one more minute of one more day because someone's ego isn't getting enough attention? join a club if you are unhappy. r.
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Post by michaelsees on Nov 25, 2010 20:24:10 GMT -5
shabd yoga in my opinion is just another rip off of true spirituality. I will tell you why. I call myself a Master I can say some lies like most of them do. I will tell them that Darshan signed came to me on the inner and instructed me to start initiation. I would then have a small weekly meditation welcoming newcomers as you know if they are interested I would tell them they need to be on a vegetarian diet for 3 months and then take initiation. On initiation I will give them the 5 words jot niarjan, rarankar, ,Omkar, Sat Nam etc(these words have no power by themselves the real power is in auto-suggestion you could use words like pig, horse cat etc but Indian words just sound much cooler.. Then guess what the newly initiated chela would have around a 60% chance of hearing the inner sound and seeing light even though I made all this stuff up.
People are very impressible here is a actual test I have done. I put up a few classified ads. In the ads I made up all sorts of crazy stuff but believable to certain types of people. I made sure that the headline of my ad said FREE in capital letters. I used what is called The friends house-now for those that do not know what the Friends house is I will tell you. In just about every city there is a big house own by the Quakers with usually a very large room. If you have any spiritual event with no more than 20-30 people they give you the room to use free. So I had 23 folks that came. I sat there talking to them mostly answering questions because I can look I am Indian from India when I have a beard it was believable. At the end of the Q&A. I asked how many would like to receive initiation into my path called Ribak Yoga(Ribak is kabir spelled backwards. I told them it's very powerful and you will see light and sound. I dimmed the lights walked around each one put my hands on their heads and sat back down.
I had 15 people that for sure saw light and sound, I had all 23 say they experienced peace and never felt like this before. At the end I had to tell them the truth that I made all this up for my thesis at the University. Now here's the thing even though it was a farce to begin with I probably had 10 hardcore that could careless what I said because the knew the saw light and heard sound.
This is the "danger" you deal with with these so called masters. It's such a simple thing to do and these so called masters know it. Some just take money, some say they give it free but you can always donate and people do donate. There is only one reason the fake gurus come to the western world, they know the gullible western culture and mind. They would not survive a week in India as the Indians know all the tricks.
This is why nonduality is so powerful as they tell you straight out it's all you. You are your own guru and that puts a end to this nonsense. Not that there are not other true masters or teachers but the real ones you can probably count with the hands and feet of 20 people. The fakes you would not thousands of folks.
Peace Michael
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Post by enigma on Nov 25, 2010 20:32:15 GMT -5
As much as I love science (Engineer by trade and when I'm drunk I can fancy meself an amateur inventor) when science is brought up in the context of spirituality, there's no interest at all, since it's funda-mentally a distraction.
Any spiritual forum that bills itself as 'interesting' or entertainment is trying to sell you something, and from my perspective there are way more than enough 'spiritual' forums selling stuff that has nothing to do with anything true. Spiritual work is work, not play, and for the serious seeker it can get rousingly intense, and so it's wise to cultivate a shade of humor and hang onto that for dear life, but my advice, for whatever THAT is worth, is to avoid the irrelevant at all cost. The cost is measured in years and lifetimes of suffering. I, for one, am not here to be entertained nor to entertain. I'm not here to tiptoe lightly through anybody's sensibility tulips, and this week in particular, I don't give a flying pterodactyl about anybody's rules of proper discussion etiquette. The game plan is to die before you die, and how you hold your pinky as you do it is not especially meaningful.
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Post by enigma on Nov 25, 2010 20:57:06 GMT -5
shabd yoga in my opinion is just another rip off of true spirituality. I will tell you why. I call myself a Master I can say some lies like most of them do. I will tell them that Darshan signed came to me on the inner and instructed me to start initiation. I would then have a small weekly meditation welcoming newcomers as you know if they are interested I would tell them they need to be on a vegetarian diet for 3 months and then take initiation. On initiation I will give them the 5 words jot niarjan, rarankar, ,Omkar, Sat Nam etc(these words have no power by themselves the real power is in auto-suggestion you could use words like pig, horse cat etc but Indian words just sound much cooler.. Then guess what the newly initiated chela would have around a 60% chance of hearing the inner sound and seeing light even though I made all this stuff up. People are very impressible here is a actual test I have done. I put up a few classified ads. In the ads I made up all sorts of crazy stuff but believable to certain types of people. I made sure that the headline of my ad said FREE in capital letters. I used what is called The friends house-now for those that do not know what the Friends house is I will tell you. In just about every city there is a big house own by the Quakers with usually a very large room. If you have any spiritual event with no more than 20-30 people they give you the room to use free. So I had 23 folks that came. I sat there talking to them mostly answering questions because I can look I am Indian from India when I have a beard it was believable. At the end of the Q&A. I asked how many would like to receive initiation into my path called Ribak Yoga(Ribak is kabir spelled backwards. I told them it's very powerful and you will see light and sound. I dimmed the lights walked around each one put my hands on their heads and sat back down. I had 15 people that for sure saw light and sound, I had all 23 say they experienced peace and never felt like this before. At the end I had to tell them the truth that I made all this up for my thesis at the University. Now here's the thing even though it was a farce to begin with I probably had 10 hardcore that could careless what I said because the knew the saw light and heard sound. This is the "danger" you deal with with these so called masters. It's such a simple thing to do and these so called masters know it. Some just take money, some say they give it free but you can always donate and people do donate. There is only one reason the fake gurus come to the western world, they know the gullible western culture and mind. They would not survive a week in India as the Indians know all the tricks. This is why nonduality is so powerful as they tell you straight out it's all you. You are your own guru and that puts a end to this nonsense. Not that there are not other true masters or teachers but the real ones you can probably count with the hands and feet of 20 people. The fakes you would not thousands of folks. Peace Michael Derren Brown, for those who don't know him, is a 'conversational hypnosis' expert (among other things) and entertains in the UK. This is a segment in which he seeks the endorsement of a high profile Christian leader by perfoming instant conversions on a group of skeptics.
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Post by Portto on Nov 25, 2010 21:48:24 GMT -5
Hi Cabin,
You do have an interest in nonduality, but there's no need to hurry things up, or worry about it.
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Post by zendancer on Nov 25, 2010 21:55:10 GMT -5
Ironically, I have a BS degree in geology and did graduate research work with paramagnetic minerals, so I know a fair amount about that subject, but karst topography, the Bowen Reaction Series, or what forms the cleavage planes of calcite doesn't have a d**m thing to do with spirituality, and won't help anyone find the truth.
This entire thread reminds me a dialogue that I heard on the day that I attended my first class in architectural design. A student asked the professor, "When are you going to teach us the fundamentals of architectural drafting?" The professor looked at the student with considerable disdain and responded witheringly, "Why would either of us want to waste any time on that? You can learn drafting on your own; I'm here to talk about design."
This is a great forum for people who are interested in truth. If someone wants to learn about advances in scientific understanding, basket weaving, or how to cook a Thanksgiving meal, there are lots of other places to do those things. You can do those things in your sleep. Most people who come to this forum, however, are interested in waking up, and in comparison to waking up, everything else is pretty trivial. As Byron Katie might say, "I'm sorry, but that's just the way of it."
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Post by michaelsees on Nov 25, 2010 21:56:31 GMT -5
enigma, Thanks this is what 99% of so called masters do when they tell you that you will experience something. Do you know the promise at the end of the book of Mormon?It says to hold this book on your heart and if you feel the area becoming warmer that is the sign that the book is true and from god.
Cabin, Different visits. Ramana Maharshi would visits his inner world everyday. If it was not more interesting I doubt he would have sat like this all his life. Becoming awaken does not mean you do not do anything or go anywhere. I assure it's as far from being passive as night is to day.
Michael
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Post by michaelsees on Nov 26, 2010 0:12:30 GMT -5
Alright a whole book could be written answering this question so I will just give you a pointer to think about. For a moment pretend their is another world yet to be discovered by you. In this world their is no mind so words could never be used to explain what this world is. Now if you knew for sure that their was a lost world in your world and it was far closer than you would think and this world was far more unique than anything you will experience in the physical would you not wish to drop all your searching for artifacts and put on your Indiana Jones hat and go discover. So when you wake up at that moment everything I have written becomes confirm by your own self as only you can confirm it. Michael [ Waking up to what? Most users on this forum never explain this.
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Post by m on Nov 26, 2010 4:26:18 GMT -5
cabinintheforest on one side of my "coin", all the others "non-dual" people on the other side of my coin. What a beautiful and interesting coin it is for me, (dreamer among dreamers... I don't know for thoses who consider themselves "enlightened").
I can totaly relate to both "sides" and everything you all, cabininthe forest and all others, said (only, may be, wondering about certains linguistics that seemed to point to non-duality as a special thing among other specials thing, loosing by this all what it is) so I enjoy the whole discussion. m
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