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Post by teetown on Nov 20, 2010 10:40:50 GMT -5
I've been attempting to practice self inquiry like Ramana and Nisargadatta talked about for some time now. It is a strange thing. When I try to focus on my own sense of being, the I AMness, it seems to retreat from focus like a scared animal. It's impossible to hold it in focus for any length of time. Recently I realized this may be because this IAmness seems to be prior to the mind, thus focusing on it with the mind's attention doesn't really work, because it is beyond and prior to the mind.
So what to do? Relaxing into this presence seems to work better. Feeling it instead of trying to see it directly. It seems that it's always there in the background, like a peripheral vision kind of thing. If I try to focus on it, it seems to disappear but as soon as I relax my focus I see it is still there in the background and never left. Kind of like the "floaters" I sometimes get in my field of vision. You can never directly focus on these buggers because as soon as you move your eyes, they shift position relative to what you're looking at.
So it's impossible to focus on it directly, however sometimes this presence, this I AM sense, is much stronger than at other times and an opportunity to investigate it is presented.
Some feelings or thoughts associated with the presence: There's a sense of non-locality to it. Like it's here, but not really "here" in a space/time sense. It is universal. It is everywhere.
I dunno. This is strange stuff! Not sure I am making any sense. Am I on the right track here?
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Post by robert on Nov 20, 2010 14:56:15 GMT -5
t.- just, relax into the i am. too much focus will push it away as you have already noticed. i had to start using the i am as more of an all day long or as often as it entered my awareness exercise instead of trying to use it only at certain times. robert
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Post by enigma on Nov 21, 2010 0:57:37 GMT -5
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Post by teetown on Nov 21, 2010 2:50:23 GMT -5
E, thanks. How to go beyond it then? Is it possible? This seems to be about as deep as "i" can go into my own being...
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Post by enigma on Nov 21, 2010 3:53:23 GMT -5
E, thanks. How to go beyond it then? Is it possible? This seems to be about as deep as "i" can go into my own being... I hope I'm not nit picking, but you are already beyond it. You stare through the telescope of mind and spot a person and then imagine you are the person trying to go beyond to find your way back to the one looking through the telescope. It's not possible to get there because you're already looking from there. This is the subtlety that makes all paths dead ends and all practices a sham. What to do? Maybe the first thing is to stop walking the path and sit down on a rock for a bit. Accept that the whole thing is a bit more subtle than trying to find something or get somewhere. Now it's a bit more quiet and focused. Begin with the idea that what you have been looking for is what is looking now. You're the one looking through the mind telescope watching yourself sitting on a rock wondering what to do next. Even if this is not fully realized, the absurdity of the situation can be imagined, as well as the subtlety. It's not about going somewhere anymore. Now it's about noticing where you already are. Through the mind telescope, you ask, 'How do I do that?' Hehe. This is equally absurd. Everything that appears, appears to you. This includes the body you see, and the thoughts and feelings. Nothing you see can be you because whatever is seen, you must be there before it can appear to you. This also means you cannot see what you are. If you could, it would be merely another object appearing to you. What you are cannot be anything you see, and you cannot see what you are. This can be noticed from your imaginary position on the rock. Just noticing the subtlety of this may stop you in your tracks and make you lose interest in where the path leads, and this is good. The path doesn't go anywhere.
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Post by robert on Nov 21, 2010 10:28:31 GMT -5
there is actually one step after the i am is established. it is written in a book called, "consciousness and the absolute", i had read his work for years before i found it. e. is correct, as you are moving becoming more accustomed to the awareness do not begin by fixing locations such as, i am is here and everything else is over there, just as you said, feel it. but give the practice some time rushing will only slow you down, and trying to figure it out merely a waste of good attention. breathe and relax. r.
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Post by zendancer on Nov 21, 2010 12:14:24 GMT -5
"Stop and be still" means turn off the mind machinery. This makes no sense. How can we get where we want to go if we don't make any movement? This thought is the last creaking of the gears as the massive machinery slowly grinds to a halt. In the eerie silence that ensues a house of cards falls down without making a sound. In the midst of the wreckage heap a grin of recognition grows.
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Post by michaelsees on Nov 21, 2010 15:05:37 GMT -5
Excellent responses from Enigma, Robert and ZD. Since it's impossible to put into words we use pointers and these are very sharp pointers. For myself it always had to do with a "sense" and we are all born with this sense. In my opinion when we are very young maybe around 4 or 5 we live as humans in this sense but it's a real sense . I remember when I was around 8 or 9 being so young I had no idea at all what even a church was about yet alone anything else. However I was brought up by my parents reading a picture Bible to me and it was fun looking at all the animals as they walked up into Noah's ark. So by 9 my sole idea of God was a wonderful person that made all the animals and everything else. Here's what happened, around 9 I had a thought that did not go away and it always came when I was in bed going to sleep. The thought was if all this is made by God then who was before God? Now for years I would go to sleep every night with that thought. The thought was always there better to say a sense was always there and stayed with me a few years until girls became my nightly thought. I believe this sense that we all have is really "you remember who you are". So if God made everything then who made God? It's not the question that matters it's the sense. Have you ever tried looking at what a "sense is" someone says I have a sense of what you are talking about right now. Okay dive deeper into the sense itself and see what is there. I have a "sense" you already know
Michael
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Post by peanut on Nov 21, 2010 18:46:53 GMT -5
Thank you all...very helpful thread..
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Post by enigma on Nov 21, 2010 19:31:26 GMT -5
Excellent responses from Enigma, Robert and ZD. Since it's impossible to put into words we use pointers and these are very sharp pointers. For myself it always had to do with a "sense" and we are all born with this sense. In my opinion when we are very young maybe around 4 or 5 we live as humans in this sense but it's a real sense . I remember when I was around 8 or 9 being so young I had no idea at all what even a church was about yet alone anything else. However I was brought up by my parents reading a picture Bible to me and it was fun looking at all the animals as they walked up into Noah's ark. So by 9 my sole idea of God was a wonderful person that made all the animals and everything else. Here's what happened, around 9 I had a thought that did not go away and it always came when I was in bed going to sleep. The thought was if all this is made by God then who was before God? Now for years I would go to sleep every night with that thought. The thought was always there better to say a sense was always there and stayed with me a few years until girls became my nightly thought. I believe this sense that we all have is really "you remember who you are". So if God made everything then who made God? It's not the question that matters it's the sense. Have you ever tried looking at what a "sense is" someone says I have a sense of what you are talking about right now. Okay dive deeper into the sense itself and see what is there. I have a "sense" you already know Michael Yeah, I'm down with that, at least in a sense. When I look back to childhood (my first one) there was always a clear sense of 'meness' that wasn't about any definitions or experiences. That same sense was there as a teenager, and as an adult, and it never changed. The body and thoughts and life circumstances changed radically, but something never did. It's still here, and this is what I call the 'I Am'. It's the sense of existence that comes with being conscious. This, too, appears to 'I'.
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Post by michaelsees on Nov 21, 2010 20:18:37 GMT -5
Yes yes and then breaking the Iam Michael Yeah, I'm down with that, at least in a sense. When I look back to childhood (my first one) there was always a clear sense of 'meness' that wasn't about any definitions or experiences. That same sense was there as a teenager, and as an adult, and it never changed. The body and thoughts and life circumstances changed radically, but something never did. It's still here, and this is what I call the 'I Am'. It's the sense of existence that comes with being conscious. This, too, appears to 'I'.
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aaron
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by aaron on Nov 22, 2010 5:45:07 GMT -5
Really cool thread "everybody"!
The sense of I Am - ness is another experience within the dream. Now there's nothing wrong with imaginarily mistaking yourself as an imaginarily separate individual because it's not good or bad, it just is. Nor is there anything wrong with the experientialness of this, because it is also you.... This is all within the dream.
The reality of you, that in which all dreams seem to appear, is the formless essence of all movement, form, awareness and dreams.
Aaron
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Post by robert on Nov 22, 2010 14:55:02 GMT -5
i suppose that the challenge of working in an open forum is that every question is asked from a different level of understanding. this thread started with how to use the "i am" to begin a practice of self inquiry. for myself it was an excellent place to begin because the process is so simple. keep the idea that i am is only truth you can know with certainty, put simply i exist. the constant returning to this one thought is easy to maintain not complicated or difficult. but the "i am" is really only a bookmark, a way to establish, "location" amidst all that is happening in our seemingly complicated lives. after time establishing this benchmark we become somewhat comfortable, and can thus be given another lesson. this lesson being, now that you have grounded the thought "i am" mentally hear the i am and then look to where that thought came from. what is before the "i am"? it is very simple a seemingly nothing question and yet there is a strength in its simplicity because it begins to help have another "place" from which to move further in the removal process. the way we strip the unnecessary away leaving "nothing". but what is a student looking to take step 1 going to think when they read that step 1 is irrelevant before they have even taken it. instant confusion which "teacher" is correct. which one knows what they are talking about? the paradox being that they both do. but the challenge is how do we convey all of this to a student just trying to take step 1? then we come to the line beyond which words are more of a hinderance than help and the process begins to unravel.
thoughts? robert
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Post by teetown on Nov 22, 2010 16:01:10 GMT -5
Helpful posts from everyone. Thanks.
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Post by enigma on Nov 22, 2010 16:06:35 GMT -5
Sounds pretty good to this I Amness, Robert. Hehe.
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