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Post by lopezcabellero on Dec 3, 2019 3:05:16 GMT -5
You say tomato I say tomato. Let's call the whole thing off Let’s not and say we did.
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Post by lopezcabellero on Dec 3, 2019 3:09:57 GMT -5
Your definition of conscious thought seems like a lot of unconsciously driven stuff. To the extent mind talk includes self seeking, projection, self judgement, etc. - we might as well call that unconscious thought. This is a slippery slope of course, because no human is conscious of all the forces spawning thought intelligence, so there is a context in which all thinking is unconscious, I spose. I am sure we can all agree the issue of spiritual or emotional unconsciousness is directly linked to mind identification and psychic pollution. And so it’s probably a good idea to talk more about that. Absent the people-peep the Universe is a human humaning, and what I've read third-hand from what you've written of Jung, the "unconscious" takes on a different, neutral meaning from the one you're using it for in most of the rest of what you've written. When the core topic is being, this sort of meaning-flip is not uncommon. Jungs distinction between personal and collective unconscious is an excellent clarifying one. He mentions the collective unconscious can be a source of inspiration, but also mentions how people go stark raving mad during what seems to be an invasion from the collective unconscious, like schizos who are tormented by spirits. The bridge of course, is how personally unconscious or personally compartmentalized you are. People who are highly personally unconscious will have no clue they are actually puppets for dark forces. People who clear out at least some of their unconscious will become mediumistic to higher dimensional or vibrational energy, assuming they don’t use their will to shut down the gift, as most of us are trained to do at a young age.
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Post by lopezcabellero on Dec 3, 2019 3:26:46 GMT -5
Your definition of conscious thought seems like a lot of unconsciously driven stuff. To the extent mind talk includes self seeking, projection, self judgement, etc. - we might as well call that unconscious thought. This is a slippery slope of course, because no human is conscious of all the forces spawning thought intelligence, so there is a context in which all thinking is unconscious, I spose. I am sure we can all agree the issue of spiritual or emotional unconsciousness is directly linked to mind identification and psychic pollution. And so it’s probably a good idea to talk more about that.The unconscious has a natural function, of course; to hold all the information we don't need to think about consciously. It's ZD's 'body intelligence' as far as I'm concerned. Problem is it's also a convenient place to hide the stuff we find disagreeable. The solution involves honesty, integrity and not a little courage. The stuff we find disagreeable could also be labeled the stuff we compartmentalize, as far as energy is concerned. Jung would call that the personal unconscious. While I would say grief or pain is the primary energy that gets compartmentalized, it morphs into despair, which can be experienced as both shame, guilt, or a pervading feeling in the chest chakra that I don’t feel ok and all is not well. Going into that feeling can take courage, and may also seem highly counterintuitive to a mind conditioned to control. But it would also be the end of adding any new pain to what is already there. The quicker you start feeling your emotions, the less stuff you’re gonna have to work through .
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Post by satchitananda on Dec 3, 2019 3:36:19 GMT -5
The reason there is an attraction to thought free awareness is that it is bliss, because bliss consciousness or transcendental consciousness is your natural state prior to mind and all phenomena. It's not difficult to show that long-term practitioners report a significant loss of their personal fears as they become increasingly connected with the ground state of Being. What if your attraction to thought free awareness was actually an attraction of a spirit to your body? Meaning you are attracted to thought free awareness by fear of your conditioning and a spirit is cloaking your body mind because you aren’t processing that fear. Are you a Jehovah's Witness?
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Post by Reefs on Dec 3, 2019 3:51:49 GMT -5
The objective/outer world discussion with Gopal has been moved here.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2019 4:01:52 GMT -5
The objective/outer world discussion with Gopal has been moved here. Oh that's very nice. Its good to see that discussion separately. Thank you very much.
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Post by someNOTHING! on Dec 3, 2019 7:06:47 GMT -5
Always liked Reefs' shorthand for this: "identity poker". I’ve played a few hands in my day 😂 Yup, mind-based formless dimension has structure and/or residue. Burning and/or collapsing it all gets messy, and thoughtful peeps don’t wanna go there, so they dream up all kinds of flawful logic to keep the agenda in tact. They tend to think the messy stuff is too radical when it’s purddy much where it’s all going, regardless of whether one’s sitting in silence, thrashing about verbally, walking and observing, etc. Lil’ do they know the end of all illusions is happening anyway, so might as well be fully conscious of it. Interesting, the resistance...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2019 8:23:15 GMT -5
How do you "release" your emotions? Is it a process, a practice? Do you face southeast to get energy from the mother ship, like Laughy does? Did you do so in therapy? I appreciate you asking this. It’s not something the intellect is going to achieve through thinking, but rather something that happens through willingness to feel. As far as processing, this willingness implicitly was not present during the unconscious mind identified state of our lives. So, one must first notice the unwillingness to feel what’s going on in our experience. Emotions themselves become layered by our minds over time. The inability to process the loss of a loved one as a child or young adult may manifest later in life as resentment, inferiority, anger, insecurity, etc. By going into those feelings, not with the intellect, but through feeling what it’s like to feel insecure, vulnerable, and even resentful or angry, the onion can start to peel itself. Underneath that type of energy you will find the emotions in their rawest form, like pain or grief. Bare in mind this whole process is prevented by the facade, which is the identity we create unconsciously to avoid what we don’t want to feel. So step one would be facade dismantling, which I can talk about more. Sure. Talk more. I'm aware of the tendency to suppress feeling. I don't call my response "releasing," but rather making room. You're never going to get rid of anger, fear, grief. They are as natural as the wind. For me it's a realization that they are part of the experience, to be accepted, felt. In actuality my practice helps me ride these waves of feeling. I am less likely to turn my back on them because of it. Yet I'm interested in your experience. I like to experiment so I'm listening. Only if you can, use examples, include yourself in these. It sounds less clinical, not like you're hiiding behind that facade.
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Post by roydop on Dec 3, 2019 8:24:58 GMT -5
The reason there is an attraction to thought free awareness is that it is bliss, because bliss consciousness or transcendental consciousness is your natural state prior to mind and all phenomena. It's not difficult to show that long-term practitioners report a significant loss of their personal fears as they become increasingly connected with the ground state of Being. What if your attraction to thought free awareness was actually an attraction of a spirit to your body? Meaning you are attracted to thought free awareness by fear of your conditioning and a spirit is cloaking your body mind because you aren’t processing that fear. It's all you. If a malevolent "spirit" entered your consciousness it would speak with the same "in your head voice" as is always talking. Simply ignore that voice/thought as well and remain in Stillness/Source/Self. When complication and emotion arises, it is always just more thought. This is very simple. And incredibly difficult.
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Post by laughter on Dec 3, 2019 9:06:22 GMT -5
Absent the people-peep the Universe is a human humaning, and what I've read third-hand from what you've written of Jung, the "unconscious" takes on a different, neutral meaning from the one you're using it for in most of the rest of what you've written. When the core topic is being, this sort of meaning-flip is not uncommon. Jungs distinction between personal and collective unconscious is an excellent clarifying one. He mentions the collective unconscious can be a source of inspiration, but also mentions how people go stark raving mad during what seems to be an invasion from the collective unconscious, like schizos who are tormented by spirits. The bridge of course, is how personally unconscious or personally compartmentalized you are. People who are highly personally unconscious will have no clue they are actually puppets for dark forces. People who clear out at least some of their unconscious will become mediumistic to higher dimensional or vibrational energy, assuming they don’t use their will to shut down the gift, as most of us are trained to do at a young age. Have you read much about the Buddhist idea of "dependent (or interdependent) origination"? A quick google on that and "Jung" led to this (which gets to the point of why I've asked you the question): What you say about people labeled schizophrenic by the medical complex certainly tracks with my (limited) experience on the issue. Similar to E', I see a similarity in reflected meaning between ZD's term of "body intelligence" and these notions of a "collective unconscious" or interdependently originating nondual totality. Jung's treatment of the notion seems to me personalized, and I prefer the Buddhist version, which seems to me, to rather emphasize the totality. While I see the value in applying a conscious, logical and observational approach to these issues, I also perceive a flip side. There is a deeper, existential, and ultimately subjective meaning to be had by recognizing that the core issue here is ineffable. From that as a starting point, the method I'd recommend for exploring the underlying totality is very different, and I'd describe that as a Zen meditation, or, at least, a Zen-inspired and Zen-influenced meditation.
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Post by laughter on Dec 3, 2019 9:11:09 GMT -5
What if your attraction to thought free awareness was actually an attraction of a spirit to your body? Meaning you are attracted to thought free awareness by fear of your conditioning and a spirit is cloaking your body mind because you aren’t processing that fear. It's all you. If a malevolent "spirit" entered your consciousness it would speak with the same "in your head voice" as is always talking. Simply ignore that voice/thought as well and remain in Stillness/Source/Self. When complication and emotion arises, it is always just more thought. This is very simple. And incredibly difficult. Yes, I don't disagree with that. But, there can be value in coming to understand the relative chain of apparent cause and effect that leads to any given emotion, especially negative emotions: the insight can lead to an immediate cessation with no further repetition of the pattern.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2019 11:26:14 GMT -5
What if your attraction to thought free awareness was actually an attraction of a spirit to your body? Meaning you are attracted to thought free awareness by fear of your conditioning and a spirit is cloaking your body mind because you aren’t processing that fear. It's all you. If a malevolent "spirit" entered your consciousness it would speak with the same "in your head voice" as is always talking. Simply ignore that voice/thought as well and remain in Stillness/Source/Self. When complication and emotion arises, it is always just more thought. This is very simple. And incredibly difficult. I don't think emotions are thoughts. They are bodily reactions to thoughts or events and many times they trigger thought chains to avoid them. Try to block or resist fear and it only gets worse. I'm not enlightened or Self Realized so I can't speeak from experience. Though I do experience times when the mind is quiet. I'm in the moment. I am thought free, but the emotions are still there. If a loose pit bull comes after me my heart races and my throat tightens and the legs move really really fast. What one calls fear happens. Yet somehow it's okay. Until the mind steps in. What if it happens again? How can I stop this from ever happening again? What if the neighbors heard me scream? What will they think of me? There's nothing wrong with the dog, it's the darn humans. They're probably from Texas.
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Post by lopezcabellero on Dec 4, 2019 0:56:27 GMT -5
What if your attraction to thought free awareness was actually an attraction of a spirit to your body? Meaning you are attracted to thought free awareness by fear of your conditioning and a spirit is cloaking your body mind because you aren’t processing that fear. Are you a Jehovah's Witness? No
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Post by lopezcabellero on Dec 4, 2019 0:59:31 GMT -5
I’ve played a few hands in my day 😂 Yup, mind-based formless dimension has structure and/or residue. Burning and/or collapsing it all gets messy, and thoughtful peeps don’t wanna go there, so they dream up all kinds of flawful logic to keep the agenda in tact. They tend to think the messy stuff is too radical when it’s purddy much where it’s all going, regardless of whether one’s sitting in silence, thrashing about verbally, walking and observing, etc. Lil’ do they know the end of all illusions is happening anyway, so might as well be fully conscious of it. Interesting, the resistance... Can you explain what you mean by a mind based formless dimension? Do you mean what our minds do with the idea of being the formless witness?
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Post by satchitananda on Dec 4, 2019 1:03:39 GMT -5
Are you a Jehovah's Witness? No I just wondered because I once got doorstopped by a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses who spoke similar nonsense as you do. When I mentioned meditation they said it was dangerous as it could open the door to being possessed by demons. I sent them quickly on their way.
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