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Post by maggie on Feb 3, 2010 13:55:25 GMT -5
Hey Z.D. I am so glad to have read your post on page five, catching up on some of the posts. This was regarding the looking and listening. This started to happen "spontaneously" just before I found this site. I live in a park like setting, ponderosa pine, oak and manzanita just outside my window. A nice stream not a 100 yards away. I was just looking and the scene went still and silence enveloped me, the chatter went "away", okay the other thing thats been happening lately again without me "knowing", what it was, is the volume of sounds goes up and down. Sometimes I hear this "white", noise so intense it drowns out other sound. I just read you called it seashell noise, and it resonates! Okay now I read about focusing while driving on sound, sight close and far, this is the most amazing discovery, as this is what is happening, also the hints and pointer are very clear. This seems to really be working here. I can only be grateful for the image of a camera and not having any thought about what it sees. This is #@$% crazy and sane at the same time. THANK YOU FOR POSTING. I hand copied the last 2 paragraphs to remind this thing, to apply it. Maggie
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Post by jimmytantric on Feb 3, 2010 19:20:12 GMT -5
Really great posts.It's always interesting to see/read ITSELF talk to ITSELF! BTW anyone interested in reading words trying to describe IT-might wish to check out the poem Hsin Hsin Ming, By Seng-ts'an - You will not get a much clearer perception via words.Have fun and Die ;D PS- you can find a good translation @ mendosa.com/way.html
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Post by lightmystic on Feb 4, 2010 11:20:31 GMT -5
Thanks jimmy, I enjoyed that.
Here's the poem below for those interested:
Verses on the Faith Mind by The 3rd Zen Patriarch, Sengstau
The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. When love and hate are both absent everything becomes clear and undisguised. Make the smallest distinction, however, and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart.
If you wish to see the truth then hold no opinions for or against anything. To set up what you like against what you dislike is the disease of the mind.
When the deep meaning of things is not understood the mind's essential peace is disturbed to no avail.
The Way is perfect like vast space when nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess.
Indeed, it is due to our choosing to accept or reject that we do not see the true nature of things.
Live neither in the entanglements of outer things nor in inner feelings of emptiness.
Be serene in the oneness of things and such erroneous views will disappear by themselves.
When you try to stop activity to achieve passivity your very effort fills you with activity.
As long as you remain in one extreme or the other you will never know Oneness.
Those who do not live in the single Way fail in both activity and passivity, assertion and denial.
To deny the reality of things is to miss their reality; to assert the emptiness of things is to miss their reality.
The more you talk and think about it, the further astray you wander from the truth.
Stop talking and thinking, and there is nothing you will not be able to know.
To return to the root is to find the meaning, but to pursue appearances is to miss the source.
At the moment of inner enlightenment there is a going beyond appearance and emptiness.
The changes that appear to occur in the empty world we call real only because of our ignorance.
Do not search for the truth; only cease to cherish opinions.
Do not remain in the dualistic state -- avoid such pursuits carefully.
If there is even a trace of this and that, of right and wrong, the Mind-essence will be lost in confusion.
Although all dualities come from the One, do not be attached even to this One.
When the mind exists undisturbed in the Way, nothing in the world can offend, and when such a thing can no longer offend, it ceases to exist in the old way.
When no discriminating thoughts arise, the old mind ceases to exist.
When thought objects vanish, the thinking-subject vanishes, as when the mind vanishes, objects vanish.
Things are objects because of the subject (mind); the mind (subject) is such because of things (object).
Understand the relativity of these two and the basic reality: the unity of emptiness.
In this emptiness the two are indistinguishable and each contains in itself the whole world.
If you do not discriminate between coarse and fine you will not be tempted to prejudice and opinion.
To live in the Great Way is neither easy nor difficult, but those with limited views are fearful and irresolute; the faster they hurry, the slower they go, and clinging (attachment) cannot be limited; even to be attached to the idea of enlightenment is to go astray.
Just let things be in their own way and there will be neither coming nor going.
Obey the nature of things (your own nature), and you will walk freely and undisturbed.
When thought is in bondage the truth is hidden, for everything is murky and unclear, and the burdensome practice of judging brings annoyance and weariness.
What benefits can be derived from distinctions and separations?
If you wish to move in the One Way do not dislike even the world of senses and ideas.
Indeed, to accept them fully is identical with true Enlightenment.
The wise man strives to no goals but the foolish man fetters himself.
There is one Dharma, not many; distinctions arise from the clinging needs of the ignorant.
To seek Mind with the (discriminating) mind is the greatest of all mistakes.
Rest and unrest derive from illusion; with enlightenment there is no liking and disliking.
All dualities come from ignorant inference. They are like dreams or flowers in air: foolish to try to grasp them.
Gain and loss, right and wrong: such thoughts must finally be abolished at once.
If the eye never sleeps, all dreams will naturally cease.
If the mind makes no discriminations, the ten thousand things are as they are, of single essence.
To understand the mystery of this One-essence is to be released from all entanglements.
When all things are seen equally the timeless Self-essence is reached.
No comparisons or analogies are possible in this causeless, relationless state.
Consider movement stationary and the stationary in motion, both movement and rest disappear.
When such dualities cease to exist Oneness itself cannot exist.
To this ultimate finality no law or description applies.
For the unified mind in accord with the Way all self-centered striving ceases.
Doubts and irresolutions vanish and life in true faith is possible.
With a single stroke we are freed from bondage; nothing clings to us and we hold to nothing.
All is empty, clear, self-illuminating, with no exertion of the mind's power.
Here thought, feeling, knowledge, and imagination are of no value.
In this world of suchness there is neither self nor other-than-self.
To come directly into harmony with this reality just simply say when doubt arises, 'Not two.'
In this 'not two' nothing is separate, nothing is excluded.
No matter when or where, enlightenment means entering this truth.
And this truth is beyond extension or diminution in time or space; in it a single thought is ten thousand years.
Emptiness here, Emptiness there, but the infinite universe stands always before your eyes.
Infinitely large and infinitely small; no difference, for definitions have vanished and no boundaries are seen.
So too with Being and Non-Being.
Don't waste time with doubts and arguments that have nothing to do with this.
One thing, all things: move among and intermingle, without distinction.
To live in this realization is to be without anxiety about non-perfection.
To live in this faith is the road to non-duality, because the non-dual is one with trusting mind.
Words!
The Way is beyond language, for in it there is no yesterday, no tomorrow, no today.
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Post by maggie on Feb 4, 2010 11:46:53 GMT -5
Hi Jimmy Good poke....I deserved it and its well taken. Appreciated the reading too, thanks. Also feel a need to be honest with whatever is for now..... Maggie
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Post by GuruSid on Feb 22, 2010 20:39:58 GMT -5
;D Hi Klaus, All your points are valid. The existential terror is the most important. In my experience this is the best indicator as to our progress on the path. Standing on top of tall buildings or close to cliff edges is interesting or being in other perceived life threatening situations. The reflexive feelings of self preservation and the strength of them seem to be inversely proportional to ones level of wakeful/mindfulness. The thing is when once experiencing an NDE they were entirely absent... L, Sid.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2011 13:24:59 GMT -5
Hey Klaus, Well, the point I was making was that you have to be honest with your experience. The actual desire to be open and honest about your experience, no matter how subtle or how expanded it is leads to recognition of what is going on. You can fake it to the world, but you cannot fake it to yourself. In the end, either there is honesty or there isn't. Honesty gets you there, dishonesty gets in the way. So if your experience of is of That, even if it's subtle, then the honesty about that moves you forward. If you don't know, then you can keep looking into until you do. But the admission that you don't know (if that is, in fact the case) is the honesty that lets you keep looking until you do know, and so on. The earlier experiences I had, while very mystical, were not it. And reading many different spiritual books and meeting with many different masters confirmed that. When I got it, bouncing it against others who got it helped it solidify and make the mind happy so it could relax and let go. Once the physical change happens, then it's only a matter of time until the mind lets go, but having intellectual knowledge helps recognize what one is seeing and helps the mind relax into the Nothingness sooner and more comfortably and easily. The final change that ended individuality was very life altering. It needed no external verification, although verification was appreciated. If you read enough about it you get a sense of it. But in the end, the question is whether it's nondual, and whether it's abiding. Understanding what those terms mean fully, and then seeing honestly whether they apply makes it a rather easy test. Too simple if you ask me, but that's what it is. There is certainly deeper understanding and more after that, but it is more just commentary and deeper knowledge/insight into the same thing. For me, after that point, all new knowledge and such expanded the detail of the knowingness already there instead of replacing it as "false knowledge" as prior to the shift. Does that answer your question? Lightmystic, These experiences you've had and are having without being predisposed to spiritual literature (left to your own evaluations of them) how can you be sure you're enlightenment experiences are valid other than having them verified in spiritual literature. It seems like it's circular. this is another awesome post from an awesome thread just bringing a little history back to the present, for the moment!
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Post by michaelsees on Mar 18, 2011 15:53:44 GMT -5
yup Lightmystic is great and normally spot When I had my own Forum he would post everyday. I see he left this Forum long time ago but he was still posting on my forum. I wonder what it was that made him go away? Maxie are you getting bored with the present moment?
Michael
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Post by sharon on Mar 18, 2011 17:28:51 GMT -5
Some are interested in time ~ Some are interested in characters ~ Some are interested in arrivals and departures ~ And some are ~
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Post by sharon on Mar 18, 2011 19:00:47 GMT -5
And then some may sit in a bath full of beans with a Golden Retriever ... for Comic Relief
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2011 20:27:38 GMT -5
yup Lightmystic is great and normally spot When I had my own Forum he would post everyday. I see he left this Forum long time ago but he was still posting on my forum. I wonder what it was that made him go away? Maxie are you getting bored with the present moment? Michael bored? impossible. sounds like LM liked your forum better? maybe now that you've taken up residence here he'll come back!
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