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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 13:47:36 GMT -5
Haven't you used Law of attraction to create something in your life? Of course, intention creates the reality without fail, I am not going to say I could change the rotation of earth in opposite direction using Law of attraction or I am not going to say I could defy the gravity power of earth using Law of attraction, but we could create our experience inevitably with others.But this creations moves between it's polarity. Quite obviously it doesn't. This really surprise me!!. Haven't you used Reality Creation technique(Affirmation or Visualization)? It surely creates, It never fails in my experience. If you say intention has already been a manifestation, I don't have problem, I would say that's the preexisting flow and it includes the fulfillment too.
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Post by enigma on Dec 25, 2014 11:59:46 GMT -5
You have this idea that the next thought is created from the present thought.You can't see thought arising spontaneously, so you're left with the conundrum of how thought arises in the absence of thought. Even in the waking state, you're not slave to your previous thought.
What I call Intelligence is what some call God, so you're being a bit liberal with the boundaries you place on it. It's not my idea, but it's yours.Isn't it? Haven't you said that creation continues within creation? Dream continues within Dream? I am not slave to the previous thought, you meant to say thought need not to follow the previous thought? spontaneous expression may continue from somewhere else rather than continuing from the previous thought? But still you haven't answered my question, when you are coming back to waking state how did you awareness knows to generate the bed room appearance? why not it creates the appearance of something else? what is the one which keeps the track?Creation is both collective and individuated.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2014 13:03:44 GMT -5
It's not my idea, but it's yours.Isn't it? Haven't you said that creation continues within creation? Dream continues within Dream? I am not slave to the previous thought, you meant to say thought need not to follow the previous thought? spontaneous expression may continue from somewhere else rather than continuing from the previous thought? But still you haven't answered my question, when you are coming back to waking state how did you awareness knows to generate the bed room appearance? why not it creates the appearance of something else? what is the one which keeps the track?Creation is both collective and individuated. Yes it is, but how does this answer to my above question? And how about answering to this question as well? This really surprise me!!. Haven't you used Reality Creation technique(Affirmation or Visualization)? It surely creates, It never fails in my experience. If you say intention has already been a manifestation, I don't have problem, I would say that's the preexisting flow and it includes the fulfillment too. Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/3865?page=40#ixzz3MvyFAAaE
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Post by enigma on Dec 25, 2014 13:20:39 GMT -5
Creation is both collective and individuated. Yes it is, but how does this answer to my above question? We could say that which "keeps track" is awareness itself. Yes, this is the omniscient personal God that is talked about in Christianity, but it's just a way of talking about it. I'm having trouble answering your question because you think and analyze too much, and 'look' and listen too little. If you wish to be right about it, then there are a few of us who will grant your wish. How about you just intend that I answer it, which according to you works without fail?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 25, 2014 15:20:05 GMT -5
Yes it is, but how does this answer to my above question? We could say that which "keeps track" is awareness itself. Yes, this is the omniscient personal God that is talked about in Christianity, but it's just a way of talking about it. I'm having trouble answering your question because you think and analyze too much, and 'look' and listen too little. If you wish to be right about it, then there are a few of us who will grant your wish. How about you just intend that I answer it, which according to you works without fail? gopal can't understand you like any person off the street couldn't understand your "cosmology". However, you two should be able to understand each other perfectly, you both believe the same thing but only call it by different names. For E, everything is a dream in nonduality. For gopal, everything happens at the will of God. No difference.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2014 0:35:04 GMT -5
Yes it is, but how does this answer to my above question? We could say that which "keeps track" is awareness itself. Yes, this is the omniscient personal God that is talked about in Christianity, but it's just a way of talking about it. I'm having trouble answering your question because you think and analyze too much, and 'look' and listen too little. If you wish to be right about it, then there are a few of us who will grant your wish. How about you just intend that I answer it, which according to you works without fail? I am always listening you, I admitted many of your truth of yours, you yourself know about that. But when I found something logical fallacy , I couldn't admit with you. Ok, take your line "We could say that which "keeps track" is awareness itself."
Keeping the track happens in thought, Isn't it? but your awareness left with no thought and more than that it perceives nothing. That being said,whence it comes back to the correct thought(bed room appearance) of where it left? See how you are going round and round to prove the non existence thing rather than admitting the fact that outer world stability is maintained by inner level of mind?
May I know have you ever used Reality Creation technique to create something? You used but you always failed to create something? May i know which reality creation technique you used? It's affirmation or visualization?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2014 4:26:39 GMT -5
We could say that which "keeps track" is awareness itself. Yes, this is the omniscient personal God that is talked about in Christianity, but it's just a way of talking about it. I'm having trouble answering your question because you think and analyze too much, and 'look' and listen too little. If you wish to be right about it, then there are a few of us who will grant your wish. How about you just intend that I answer it, which according to you works without fail? gopal can't understand you like any person off the street couldn't understand your "cosmology". However, you two should be able to understand each other perfectly, you both believe the same thing but only call it by different names. For E, everything is a dream in nonduality. For gopal, everything happens at the will of God. No difference.There is a strong difference between me and Enigma, I believe what we call outer world focus is very consistent which means, If you take your pen from the table, it would not be available to another person, outer world doesn't change like inner world. Inner world and outer world both appears in our consciousness, but what I would like to call outer world focus is shared one. More closely put, If some ola found and something has been has written about you, then I would believe somebody must have written and kept it over there thereby I could read or somebody could read, but what Enigma believes is, that ola which is written about you is being created right now in this movement, that also means this need not to be written by some one, It just appears. Another difference is, America was non-existence before somebody perceives America according to Enigma, but to me, America was existence though nobody is there is perceive, but the question comes automatically where it exists? Inner level of consciousness maintain this, This inner consciousness gives us the common background where you and I could share. Enigma misses the subconscious part of our consciousness.
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Post by tzujanli on Dec 26, 2014 9:17:04 GMT -5
It's not my idea, but it's yours.Isn't it? Haven't you said that creation continues within creation? Dream continues within Dream? I am not slave to the previous thought, you meant to say thought need not to follow the previous thought? spontaneous expression may continue from somewhere else rather than continuing from the previous thought? But still you haven't answered my question, when you are coming back to waking state how did you awareness knows to generate the bed room appearance? why not it creates the appearance of something else? what is the one which keeps the track?Creation is both collective and individuated. Part and whole, one and many.. welcome to the realization of actuality..
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Post by enigma on Dec 26, 2014 11:45:08 GMT -5
Creation is both collective and individuated. Part and whole, one and many.. welcome to the realization of actuality.. I don't have an issue with the integrated nature of creation. It appears as integrated because it is one. What I have an issue with is the idea that it is constituted of separate parts. Individuated appearances are not separate parts. That's also the solution to Gopal's dilemma of how everything is 'kept track' of. When everything is completely integrated as a singular movement, then there can be no logistical problems to work out. No need to set up events in the past that can bring about some outcome in the future. No need to keep track of the individual's life so that it can be recreated in the morning. If there is nothing separate to begin with, there is no need for planning or control. There is no cause outside of that singular, radically integrated movement. If the intention to manifest, and the manifestation, both happen, it is because they are different appearances in the same movement. It is not because a separate part caused something to happen.
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Post by tzujanli on Dec 26, 2014 12:18:30 GMT -5
Part and whole, one and many.. welcome to the realization of actuality.. I don't have an issue with the integrated nature of creation. It appears as integrated because it is one. What I have an issue with is the idea that it is constituted of separate parts. Individuated appearances are not separate parts. That's also the solution to Gopal's dilemma of how everything is 'kept track' of. When everything is completely integrated as a singular movement, then there can be no logistical problems to work out. No need to set up events in the past that can bring about some outcome in the future. No need to keep track of the individual's life so that it can be recreated in the morning. If there is nothing separate to begin with, there is no need for planning or control. There is no cause outside of that singular, radically integrated movement. If the intention to manifest, and the manifestation, both happen, it is because they are different appearances in the same movement. It is not because a separate part caused something to happen. Our understandings differ.. your understanding of 'appearances' and my definition of separate parts may refer to the same experience.. i suspect that your rejection of separate parts and oneness existing simultaneously is based on the conditioning of belief system you find favorable.. The bolded portion of your post doesn't account for the following advice, which sets up a future reward for following your advice:
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Post by enigma on Dec 26, 2014 12:49:06 GMT -5
I don't have an issue with the integrated nature of creation. It appears as integrated because it is one. What I have an issue with is the idea that it is constituted of separate parts. Individuated appearances are not separate parts. That's also the solution to Gopal's dilemma of how everything is 'kept track' of. When everything is completely integrated as a singular movement, then there can be no logistical problems to work out. No need to set up events in the past that can bring about some outcome in the future. No need to keep track of the individual's life so that it can be recreated in the morning. If there is nothing separate to begin with, there is no need for planning or control. There is no cause outside of that singular, radically integrated movement. If the intention to manifest, and the manifestation, both happen, it is because they are different appearances in the same movement. It is not because a separate part caused something to happen. Our understandings differ.. your understanding of 'appearances' and my definition of separate parts may refer to the same experience.. i suspect that your rejection of separate parts and oneness existing simultaneously is based on the conditioning of belief system you find favorable.. Actually, it's the still mind clarity of the realization of oneness. There's no contradiction. There is a natural unfolding of creation from one moment to the next, along with the illusory appearance of cause/effect occurring within that unfolding. As with the intention to manifest, the encouragement to be curious is also part of that spontaneous unfolding. The encouragement is one part of that singular movement, and if there is one encouraged, that is another part of that singular movement. I say there's no need to set up a future outcome because present moment creation is all inclusive. There's nothing that cannot happen in this present moment.
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Post by tzujanli on Dec 26, 2014 13:53:21 GMT -5
Our understandings differ.. your understanding of 'appearances' and my definition of separate parts may refer to the same experience.. i suspect that your rejection of separate parts and oneness existing simultaneously is based on the conditioning of belief system you find favorable.. Actually, it's the still mind clarity of the realization of oneness. There's no contradiction. There is a natural unfolding of creation from one moment to the next, along with the illusory appearance of cause/effect occurring within that unfolding. As with the intention to manifest, the encouragement to be curious is also part of that spontaneous unfolding. The encouragement is one part of that singular movement, and if there is one encouraged, that is another part of that singular movement. I say there's no need to set up a future outcome because present moment creation is all inclusive. There's nothing that cannot happen in this present moment.Have you ever ordered something that didn't appear in the instant of its ordering, have you never made travel plans, or purchased insurance?..
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Post by enigma on Dec 26, 2014 14:29:47 GMT -5
Actually, it's the still mind clarity of the realization of oneness. There's no contradiction. There is a natural unfolding of creation from one moment to the next, along with the illusory appearance of cause/effect occurring within that unfolding. As with the intention to manifest, the encouragement to be curious is also part of that spontaneous unfolding. The encouragement is one part of that singular movement, and if there is one encouraged, that is another part of that singular movement. I say there's no need to set up a future outcome because present moment creation is all inclusive. There's nothing that cannot happen in this present moment.Have you ever ordered something that didn't appear in the instant of its ordering, have you never made travel plans, or purchased insurance?.. Sure. What's yer point?
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Post by tzujanli on Dec 26, 2014 14:34:59 GMT -5
Have you ever ordered something that didn't appear in the instant of its ordering, have you never made travel plans, or purchased insurance?.. Sure. What's yer point? Those activities are performed based on a future happening..
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Post by enigma on Dec 26, 2014 15:29:18 GMT -5
Those activities are performed based on a future happening.. What I said is "There's nothing that cannot happen in this present moment." It refers to infinite potential, which is present precisely because creation doesn't depend upon the created to act as a cause for another creation. IOW, the universe is created and recreated in each moment, and so nothing actually depends on what came before. Continuity is maintained, but does not imply a previous cause. Planning happens as part of the unfolding, but no logistics are actually required. Gravity works the same way moment to moment because it is created the same way moment to moment, but it doesn't have to be. In the next moment it could go away without any apparent cause. Mind doesn't like radical change and unpredictable randomness, and so structure becomes part of the happening.(creation forms from within creation) So it's likely things will go on much the way they have, with slow and steady change to provide constant experience that doesn't destabilize our paradigms too much, but it doesn't have to happen that way. The potential for change is unbounded in this moment, which is what it means to say God is omnipotent.
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