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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2013 10:55:56 GMT -5
Is it just Steve you're wanting to answer?
I don't know what the 112 sutras are or a headless way (lol, it headless does conjure up a funny image though). But I find it beneficial to experience life from different angles.. so I might step into a situation to see what it feels like from an emotional viewpoint, but also step back from the emotion of a situation at regular intervals to look at what is actually happening.
I say it's beneficial, because I like to experience life emotionally, but (to coin a phrase) I don't like to get lost in the 'fog' of life, I like to see it from the eyes of spirit too.
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Post by silver on Nov 23, 2013 11:40:20 GMT -5
Some here recommend stepping back. Steve says this too. I'm not sure I understand what they mean by "stepping back". Also I can't find it in the 112 sutras. According to Steve there are only the 112 sutras and the headless way. So is stepping back something new or what? Thanks I wuz gonna answer last nite, but it was too late, eyes drooping.... Hiya freejoy, Usually stepping back means you start to realize you're too close-in to a situation that is proving difficult for you to deal with, and when a person steps back mentally / emotionally, they're able to see the situation with more objectivity, and that's pretty much it.
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Post by laughter on Nov 23, 2013 11:59:29 GMT -5
Some here recommend stepping back. Steve says this too. I'm not sure I understand what they mean by "stepping back". Also I can't find it in the 112 sutras. According to Steve there are only the 112 sutras and the headless way. So is stepping back something new or what? Thanks I wuz gonna answer last nite, but it was too late, eyes drooping.... Hiya freejoy, Usually stepping back means you start to realize you're too close-in to a situation that is proving difficult for you to deal with, and when a person steps back mentally / emotionally, they're able to see the situation with more objectivity, and that's pretty much it. Well said Silver, that's what I've taken it to mean, in a common, humanistic sense, and in that context, it's certainly well within my experience. But FJ might also be referring to is stepping back from spiritual seeking. One of the presenters ( Dr. Hall) at the 2012 SIG that ZD presented at has an interesting story along those lines. The synopsis is that he meditated and practiced Zen for decades and then just set it all aside for another decade and then in one instant, one day, suddenly he had a spiritual realization that put all the seeking into context once and for all.
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Post by laughter on Nov 23, 2013 13:26:13 GMT -5
I wuz gonna answer last nite, but it was too late, eyes drooping.... Hiya freejoy, Usually stepping back means you start to realize you're too close-in to a situation that is proving difficult for you to deal with, and when a person steps back mentally / emotionally, they're able to see the situation with more objectivity, and that's pretty much it. It sounds like what your saying is maybe like observe "whatever" like it's not you or like it's a movie, so you don't get caught up in emotion. If so I understand that but what Steve and I can't remember who the other poster was but "backing up" or "stepping back". I believe they are talking about during meditation. I was going to start meditating for a couple hours everyday. To see what happens, plus meditating is good for you even if you don't get enlightened. I tried the backing up, but I don't think I understand.
I'm sure Steve is probably in samaidi somewhere seeing how everything is just so beautiful and prefect. Meditation. Good!
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Post by zendancer on Nov 23, 2013 16:20:40 GMT -5
Freejoy: Who you REALLY are is the watcher BEHIND everything that's happening. "Stepping back" means to psychologically step back behind what appears to be happening, or behind who you think you are, or behind what you think you see or feel, and be THAT which you already are--the watcher.
Psychologically keep "stepping back" until everything is in "front" of you--thoughts, feelings, impulses, the body, the world, etc. Then ask, "What is it that is aware of everything out 'in front'?" Who, or what, is the witness?
Google "Mooji anybody can be nobody." He's pointing to the same thing in a different way. It's a way of going behind the mind, so to speak, and getting free of the usual stuff that occupies one's attention.
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Post by zendancer on Nov 23, 2013 17:46:15 GMT -5
Freejoy: Who you REALLY are is the watcher BEHIND everything that's happening. "Stepping back" means to psychologically step back behind what appears to be happening, or behind who you think you are, or behind what you think you see or feel, and be THAT which you already are--the watcher. Psychologically keep "stepping back" until everything is in "front" of you--thoughts, feelings, impulses, the body, the world, etc. Then ask, "What is it that is aware of everything out 'in front'?" Who, or what, is the witness? Google "Mooji anybody can be nobody." He's pointing to the same thing in a different way. It's a way of going behind the mind, so to speak, and getting free of the usual stuff that occupies one's attention. This makes me so fu*king angery. Not at you but at myself. Something is aware of anger and the ownership of anger. Step back and take a look. Is the awareness of anger angry? Is awareness angry? What sees anger but remains unaffected by anger? That which sees anger must be prior to anger because anger is "in front."
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Post by laughter on Nov 23, 2013 17:50:46 GMT -5
Freejoy: Who you REALLY are is the watcher BEHIND everything that's happening. "Stepping back" means to psychologically step back behind what appears to be happening, or behind who you think you are, or behind what you think you see or feel, and be THAT which you already are--the watcher. Psychologically keep "stepping back" until everything is in "front" of you--thoughts, feelings, impulses, the body, the world, etc. Then ask, "What is it that is aware of everything out 'in front'?" Who, or what, is the witness? Google "Mooji anybody can be nobody." He's pointing to the same thing in a different way. It's a way of going behind the mind, so to speak, and getting free of the usual stuff that occupies one's attention. This makes me so fu*king angery. Not at you but at myself.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2013 20:40:41 GMT -5
This makes me so fu*king angery. Not at you but at myself. Something is aware of anger and the ownership of anger. Step back and take a look. Is the awareness of anger angry? Is awareness angry? What sees anger but remains unaffected by anger? That which sees anger must be prior to anger because anger is "in front." ^Thats^ the measure of it Joe....step back into basic awareness in such a way that everything that you are aware 'of' is 'out in front'.... You are in a room with people and objects in it, you are aware of the room, it is 'out in front' of your awareness, but you are not aware of your own existence, because you are absorbed by it, you are absorbed in your own existence just as you get absorbed in the story of a movey......step back, and put your existance out in front of your awareness as well.... Keep stepping back into yourself until everything internal and external is 'out in front'....keep stepping back until there is no place or thing to 'step back' into, because everything is out in front. And when EVERYTHING is out in front, make no divisions or definitions between objects, movements, or experiences....let everything that is 'out in front' be one singular experience that includes your body, mind, and sensory perceptions....all one thing...the room, the people, you, the objects, the happenings, the movements..all one thing, that is 'out in front'. If you are experiencing it, step back behind it... Step back, and observe your own existence as a part of the continuum of All percievable existence.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2013 21:17:09 GMT -5
Something is aware of anger and the ownership of anger. Step back and take a look. Is the awareness of anger angry? Is awareness angry? What sees anger but remains unaffected by anger? That which sees anger must be prior to anger because anger is "in front." The problem is is there is a problem. There was no problem there until I delt with enlightened people. They were suppose to fix the problems not create more problems that possibly cannot be repaired unless I die and get reborn. I know awareness is aware of the anger. In my experiance awareness wasn't there until I was born because I don't remember being aware of anything until I was alive and there was a body. When the body dies awareness will not be aware because there will not be anything left to be aware of. Even in the deepest sleep, there is awareness....why do you think a loud noise will 'wake' you from the deepest sleep? Without Awareness, nothing could disturb you in deep sleep, nothing whatsoever could get your attention. Awareness is always there, even in deep sleep, because it is your most essential nature, and it is eternal. The real issue is one of self identifying with a very limited view of your totality. You are identifying with a temporary and transient bodymind. Another way of saying it, is that you are identifying with what you are doing, and not what you are. What you are doing is not eternal, what you are is. So long as you identify with what you are doing, and are living in attachment to what you are doing, you will have some aspect of fear and suffering, and anger is only an extension of fear. The reason that meditation in all its various forms is prescribed by so many that gnosis their true nature, and remain centered in it, is because 'proper' meditation, in all its various forms, increases alertness/wakefulness, centers one in what they are, and not what they are doing, and by-and-by loosens the identification with the narrowed perception of the self. Your body/mind/identity is what you are doing and knowing, what you ARE is Awareness, Spacious, Open, Eternal.....Omnipresent. (You are also what you are doing, but identifying soley with what you are doing as the totality of 'you', and clinging to that temporary manifestation, is the source of suffering, but thats another conversation for another day) For now, meditate until you are strongly aware of your own awareness, and the nature of your awareness, and keep meditating for the rest of the manifestation of this bodymind. Meditation is the means by which you expand your conciousness with alertness, in order to become concious of your full nature, and not be so self identified with such a narrow awareness of your self.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2013 21:41:52 GMT -5
Some here recommend stepping back. Steve says this too. I'm not sure I understand what they mean by "stepping back". Also I can't find it in the 112 sutras. According to Steve there are only the 112 sutras and the headless way. So is stepping back something new or what? Thanks 89. Beloved, at this moment let mind, knowing, breath, form, be included. 100. The appreciation of objects and subjects is the same for an enlightened as for an unenlightened person. The former has one greatness: He/She remains in the subjective mood, not lost in things. 112. Enter space, supportless, eternal, still. There are others, but these are the primary 'stepping back' techniques of the 112 Sutras.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2013 22:09:33 GMT -5
Steve, what kind of time frame are we looking at here? The rest of my life? What is the use of getting enlightened the day before one dies? Why does it take so long? Time is irrelevant....only RIGHT NOW matters. Whats going on RIGHT NOW? If you really must think in terms of time, then think on this....even if it takes 40 years, the end of the 40 years will never come if you do not begin now....so no matter how you slice it, 'how long' doesn't matter, only what IS right now does. It may comfort you to know, that the more conscious you become, the less that Time and Effort will concern you. :-)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2013 22:41:23 GMT -5
Anyway who says enlightenment is so good? Hell, the enlightened people still playing lotto. The Magic that you are hoping for is found in Silence, and not knowing.
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Post by laughter on Nov 23, 2013 23:51:57 GMT -5
Realization can happen in this very moment, so be alert, so you don't miss it ;-) I hope I don't miss it!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 3:24:41 GMT -5
Is it just Steve you're wanting to answer? I don't know what the 112 sutras are or a headless way (lol, it headless does conjure up a funny image though). But I find it beneficial to experience life from different angles.. so I might step into a situation to see what it feels like from an emotional viewpoint, but also step back from the emotion of a situation at regular intervals to look at what is actually happening. I say it's beneficial, because I like to experience life emotionally, but (to coin a phrase) I don't like to get lost in the 'fog' of life, I like to see it from the eyes of spirit too. No, anyone can reply. I found a couple links: Headless Way Vigyan Bhairav TantraDo you see any difference between emotions amnd feelings? Yes. Although we feel emotion, we don't necessarily have to be emotional to feel. Feeling also refers to sensation, physical, mental and spiritual. When I meditate, I feel the cells in my body open, I like the physical/mental/emotional self drops away and then I just am nothing/everything. I'm using meditation experience as an example, because I figure many people here might relate to those feelings. Yet, when not in a fully meditative state, one can be tuned in to the differentiation between feeling and emotion or what is physical, mental, emotional, spiritual etc. Hope that explanation makes sense. (I will have to read the links when I have more time )
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 24, 2013 7:17:22 GMT -5
Steve, what kind of time frame are we looking at here? The rest of my life? What is the use of getting enlightened the day before one dies? Why does it take so long? It takes so long because what they're selling you is not enlightenment at all. Instead they're just selling you some random spiritual experience. Liberation/elightenment/realization/whatever has to be instanteneous, it has to be absolutely for free and it has to last forever, only then does it have value. If enlightenment is dependent on you having to maintain a certain mindstate and attitude then it's not the real thing at all. Only unconditional enlightenment is real enlightenment. Conditional enlightenment is not enlightenment at all. You must ask yourself what do you truly want. Do you want just another experience? Then go to all these snake-oil salesmen, this forum is full of them, and they looove telling their story and they looove having someone to play the perverted master/student game with. Or do you want the truth? Just be very clear about what you want.
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