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Post by andrew on Nov 27, 2013 13:02:58 GMT -5
How about you answer the question I asked instead. I didn't see you ask me a question. Got a link? In the meantime you can answer this: 1) Are you an adult? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 2) Are you of sound mind? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 3) Do you come here to the forum and read/post of your own accord? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 4) Do you realize that you are in the unmoderated section? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 5) Do you realize that currently you spend most of your time in the unmoderated section? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 6) Are you familiar with the rules of the unmoderated section? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 7) Do you take responsibility for your actions? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. The question is, in the event of harm being cause through (your) mocking, do you take responsibility for your role in causing that harm?
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Post by andrew on Nov 27, 2013 13:03:31 GMT -5
The subject is mocking. I don't think passive aggression and backhanded maneuvering is fine. If I do that, I acknowledge that ego is playing itself out, and if I cause harm through it, I'm sorry. Now, what about mocking? Your subject is an association fallacy, i.e. the nazi card, my friend. Three times in a row already. The subject of mocking is the one in the O.P.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2013 14:48:13 GMT -5
My question to those here who are defending the rightness of mocking; Why is it so important for you to mock? Sounds like another logical fallacy. You are right. I am coming from a place of assuming it is important. You seem to be telling me then, it's not...? considering the risks and downside then, why do it?
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Post by lolly on Nov 27, 2013 18:57:11 GMT -5
Okay, here's what's going on at the moment: Andy spends most of his time in the unmoderated section complaining about what's happening in the unmoderated section. When asked why? He basically says, after a lot of dodging questions for specifics, that he has actually no problem with what's going on in the unmoderated section. Makes sense? Agreed. I have witnessed severe incidents of highly inappropriate mockery in the past. My question to those here who are defending the rightness of mocking; Why is it so important for you to mock? And for you in particular Reefs: Do you ever have a moment of introspection where you look at the way you interact with other here? If you were to encounter someone with similar social skills and ways of interaction that you regularly demonstrate here, how would you regard them? I ask it that way, as you seem to be chock full of opinions about others, but not so much in the way of insight about yourself. Perhaps if you can imagine someone who interacted with you in the same way you so often interact with others here, you'll see what some of us are talking about. In a post in another thread, you suggested that I regularly engage in food fights on this forum and suggested that this is a negative thing. Again, if you judge my behavior on this forum as being 'negative' how do you view your own? I've noticed you are very good at asking questions of others, and demanding answers, but not so good at answering questions directed at you. Why is that?
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2013 19:03:01 GMT -5
I have no problem with that. But equally, do you take responsibility for mental and emotional (and physical) harm that you could potentially cause through mocking? Okay, since you are unable to drop this. Let me ask you: 1) Are you an adult? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 2) Are you of sound mind? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 3) Do you come here to the forum and read/post of your own accord? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 4) Do you realize that you are in the unmoderated section? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 5) Do you realize that currently you spend most of your time in the unmoderated section? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 6) Are you familiar with the rules of the unmoderated section? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 7) Do you take responsibility for your actions? [ ] Yes. [ ] No.
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2013 19:12:30 GMT -5
Well you see here you want to try to strike up a serious conversation again. What exactly is my incentive? Have you ever seen the "Charlie Brown" cartoons? Your incentive? I don't know. I can't offer you one. It would perhaps depend on your initial purpose for the thread/O.P and I don't know what that was. < > You mistake a question about what you see for a request for a handout. </ >
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2013 19:15:37 GMT -5
You do understand that here you're implicitly endorsing a fire with fire model, right? My question was a bit more compartmentalized than that though. I was simply curious as to whether you could discern that your reply to Silver could have been construed as mocking. It seems that you've answered "yeah ... but ... you deserved it...". Not that I wouldn't agree with that btw ... but what interests me at this point is whether you recognize the pattern when you're the source of it. It'd be a stretch to read mockery into my response to Silver, and I see no indicators of it whatsoever. < > You're contradicting yourself here, and in that you answer the question about whether or not you're able to see the pattern when you source it. </ >
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2013 20:09:13 GMT -5
Okay, here's what's going on at the moment: Andy spends most of his time in the unmoderated section complaining about what's happening in the unmoderated section. When asked why? He basically says, after a lot of dodging questions for specifics, that he has actually no problem with what's going on in the unmoderated section. Makes sense? Can you see that there is a difference between actively trying to stop something from happening, (to put an end to mocking in the unmoderated section) and simply stating an opinion about the potential dangers of mocking? Like Andrew, I very much agree that the extreme and mean-spirited mocking that sometimes goes on here, is indeed reckless and could result in more harm than merely just being annoying or irritating to the one being mocked. You join Andy and lolly on the bandwagon in repeating the meme that there were these past instances of reckless, potentially harmful, extreme and mean-spirited mocking that's gone on before here at ST.org. Each of you make an emotional appeal based on the fear of potential harm. This is classic propaganda. Now Andy and lolly: as I've already addressed this issue with you in quite some depth, and it's quite obvious that your repetition of the meme is a form of mockery that anyone can plainly see, if you respond in this sub-dialog between myself and figs, I'm going to just ignore it and move it to the "mockery allowed" thread. Now figgles, here's the thing: can you give me one specific example of this? Where are the demons? What crimes did they perpetrate, specifically? What threads did it happen in? Who did it? Who was the member that was subject to the potential harm? Before you answer, notice that despite going to rather extreme lengths to maintain a straight face in this discussion and take the perspectives of those who've expressed a similar apparent concern seriously and with respect, the answer to this question of has always been in the form of vague innuendo. The repetitive assertion of the idea while providing no foundation only perpetuates a meme of victimhood and victimizer(s), as does the repetitive demand for discussion offered insincerely in an apparent attempt to elicit negative content in response. In my view, this is a form of mockery. To be clear: as an adult with a healthy awareness of the distinction between self and self-image, the effect of this on me is limited to annoyance -- there is no victim available to the propagandists here.
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Post by Reefs on Nov 27, 2013 20:09:44 GMT -5
I didn't see you ask me a question. Got a link? In the meantime you can answer this: 1) Are you an adult? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 2) Are you of sound mind? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 3) Do you come here to the forum and read/post of your own accord? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 4) Do you realize that you are in the unmoderated section? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 5) Do you realize that currently you spend most of your time in the unmoderated section? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 6) Are you familiar with the rules of the unmoderated section? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 7) Do you take responsibility for your actions? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. The question is, in the event of harm being cause through (your) mocking, do you take responsibility for your role in causing that harm? Where did you ask me this question? Link please! In the meantime you can answer these questions: 1) Are you an adult? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 2) Are you of sound mind? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 3) Do you come here to the forum and read/post of your own accord? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 4) Do you realize that you are in the unmoderated section? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 5) Do you realize that currently you spend most of your time in the unmoderated section? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 6) Are you familiar with the rules of the unmoderated section? [ ] Yes. [ ] No. 7) Do you take responsibility for your actions? [ ] Yes. [ ] No.
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Post by Reefs on Nov 27, 2013 20:15:15 GMT -5
It'd be a stretch to read mockery into my response to Silver, and I see no indicators of it whatsoever. < > You're contradicting yourself here, and in that you answer the question about whether or not you're able to see the pattern when you source it. </ > Does this mean that Lolly doesn't actually understand communication?
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2013 20:19:53 GMT -5
< > You're contradicting yourself here, and in that you answer the question about whether or not you're able to see the pattern when you source it. </ > Does this mean that Lolly doesn't actually understand communication? Not so much about intellect really.
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2013 20:26:52 GMT -5
My question to those here who are defending the rightness of mocking; Why is it so important for you to mock? Sounds like another logical fallacy. It is sooooo glaringly obvious why fallacy is all that's available to the propagandists on this idea of the reckless and harmful ST mockers ... otherwise, the question goes "well, where were you when this was going on? what did you do to try to stop it? to mitigate the damage?"
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2013 21:05:50 GMT -5
You join Andy and lolly on the bandwagon in repeating the meme that there were these past instances of reckless, potentially harmful, extreme and mean-spirited mocking that's gone on before here at ST.org. Each of you make an emotional appeal based on the fear of potential harm. This is classic propaganda. As far as I'm concerned the potential harm is one issue, there are lesser issues though. Mocking someone who disagrees is disrespectful and poor sport behavior...it's just not necessary to good discussion and understanding. It's an impediment to it. Again, if someone says 'please stop doing that' and it's within your power to easily stop doing that, why not?
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Post by silver on Nov 27, 2013 21:12:23 GMT -5
You join Andy and lolly on the bandwagon in repeating the meme that there were these past instances of reckless, potentially harmful, extreme and mean-spirited mocking that's gone on before here at ST.org. Each of you make an emotional appeal based on the fear of potential harm. This is classic propaganda. As far as I'm concerned the potential harm is one issue, there are lesser issues though. Mocking someone who disagrees is disrespectful and poor sport behavior...it's just not necessary to good discussion and understanding. It's an impediment to it. Again, if someone says 'please stop doing that' and it's within your power to easily stop doing that, why not? Hi Figs, In general, I agree with you on that. The whole reason for the split forum was about this very thing...if Andy or anybody else wants to discuss x, y or z without all the pie-throwing and bunny-bopping, heh, they should make sure they engage on the other side. The unmod section is no holds barred, so there's that. I know -- I'm thinking I got a bit of a sea change goin' on here within my own self about this stuff. Even though I've found the 'mocking' distasteful to a certain degree and without any decorum whatsoever, I am starting to see and acknowledge a certain rather significant value in it. I have a lot of trouble understanding the conversations much of the time, but I guess I understand a good food fight and that sorta thing.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2013 21:25:44 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned the potential harm is one issue, there are lesser issues though. Mocking someone who disagrees is disrespectful and poor sport behavior...it's just not necessary to good discussion and understanding. It's an impediment to it. Again, if someone says 'please stop doing that' and it's within your power to easily stop doing that, why not? Hi Figs, In general, I agree with you on that. The whole reason for the split forum was about this very thing...if Andy or anybody else wants to discuss x, y or z without all the pie-throwing and bunny-bopping, heh, they should make sure they engage on the other side. The unmod section is no holds barred, so there's that. I know -- I'm thinking I got a bit of a sea change goin' on here within my own self about this stuff. Even though I've found the 'mocking' by and large distasteful to a certain degree and without any decorum whatsoever, I am starting to see and acknowledge a certain rather significant value in it. I have a lot of trouble understanding the conversations much of the time, but I guess I understand a good food fight and that sorta thing. Yes, I understand what you're saying Silver...about moderated section vs. unmoderated. It was more of a hypothetical really, (if someone asks...why not just stop).... as I don't see that Andrew is actually attempting to stop anyone from doing anything, just more talking about his opinion about mocking. It's the seeming lack of introspection, or even the willingness to look into the basis of the mocking, on the part of the mockers that I'm struggling to understand. But no, I'm not on a crusade to stamp out mocking here, more just trying to fulfill my own desire to understand why some so staunchly defend their right to mock.
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