|
Post by laughter on Nov 21, 2013 23:07:51 GMT -5
So this topic of mockery came up in The Great Debate, and it's not as if we haven't had this meta-discussion around here like a dozen times already, but perhaps the issue is ripe once more. We all project an image onto the screen in front to the other members here, every one of us. It can never ever be anything more than a card-board cut-out of us, no matter how much of ourselves we share, no matter how fine a relief we paint of the self-portrait, it's not even a single flesh-and-blood meeting ... which just gives an image with even finer detail anyway. I'm sorry but when someone puts up an image that is one that projects seriousness and sobriety ... it's funny. The point was made to me that the ridicule might be hurtful and psychologically damaging, and that's not a laughing matter, but I don't see any examples here where someone has projected an image of vulnerability or fragility and has been subjected to ridicule. As a matter of fact, I'll say right now that as moderator that if that case arises I won't hesitate to act ... but I've never seen anything even close to that here, as this isn't the sort of milieu that attracts those seeking therapy. Yes, this is the Unmoderated section, but I'll bend the rules to suspend one and only one activity from this thread: mocking. While it's always possible that a parallel version of the thread might pop up, I'll not be the one to fire the first shot. Other than that, it's open season, no limits just as any other Unmoderated thread. Thanks for reading.
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Nov 21, 2013 23:13:43 GMT -5
Your overt mocking isn't usually done directly, your indirect mocking tends to be more covert, for example through use of symbols. Didn't not want to give you the opportunity to continue this facet of the Great Debate, your objection to mockery. Yes, I do use symbols sometimes. What do you think the symbols that were used were trying to convey?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 1:56:28 GMT -5
When I look at the screen I reflect on my immediate view, but I also will step back and contemplate differing perspectives. I have conversations so that others can inspire me to go outside the box of my immediate perspective - to walk around it, and explore it from different angles.
The reflective question for you laughter, might be, why do you react to others with mockery? What point within yourself drives that ad what do you get back from it?
I can't answer those questions for you. But if I was mocking somebody, I would be blocking the different perspective that they offered. There are times when I've looked at that perspective and see something ridiculous in it. But to have a default setting as mocking would surely make me blind to any new perspectives.
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Nov 22, 2013 6:04:49 GMT -5
So this topic of mockery came up in The Great Debate, and it's not as if we haven't had this meta-discussion around here like a dozen times already, but perhaps the issue is ripe once more. We all project an image onto the screen in front to the other members here, every one of us. It can never ever be anything more than a card-board cut-out of us, no matter how much of ourselves we share, no matter how fine a relief we paint of the self-portrait, it's not even a single flesh-and-blood meeting ... which just gives an image with even finer detail anyway. I'm sorry but when someone puts up an image that is one that projects seriousness and sobriety ... it's funny. The point was made to me that the ridicule might be hurtful and psychologically damaging, and that's not a laughing matter, but I don't see any examples here where someone has projected an image of vulnerability or fragility and has been subjected to ridicule. As a matter of fact, I'll say right now that as moderator that if that case arises I won't hesitate to act ... but I've never seen anything even close to that here, as this isn't the sort of milieu that attracts those seeking therapy. Yes, this is the Unmoderated section, but I'll bend the rules to suspend one and only one activity from this thread: mocking. While it's always possible that a parallel version of the thread might pop up, I'll not be the one to fire the first shot. Other than that, it's open season, no limits just as any other Unmoderated thread. Thanks for reading. When you mock, deride and abuse you make an assessment that the one being mocked, derided and abused can take it. You might be wrong. It may LOOK like someone is able to handle it, but you don't know that. Someone may say they can take it, but you don't know that. This is an internet forum, and what we see and know of each other is limited. I see the game you are playing as naive and potentially dangerous. Maybe you feel you have to live up to your name by creating humour in the form of mocking....I don't know.
|
|
|
Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 22, 2013 7:14:00 GMT -5
Laughter, I have asked you many times to please stop mocking me, to stop making your jokes in reply to my posts, obscure references to god-knows-what, funny pictures, etc. You never respected my requests. I am very disappointed about that. I don't understand why you can't just respect my request. I even asked you once to at least tell me why you won't respect my request. You didn't answer.
It is very easy to stop mocking people, but first you have to get control over your ego. I think especially as a moderator you should at least try.
|
|
|
Post by quinn on Nov 22, 2013 8:21:56 GMT -5
Mockery is an attack on a person's self-image. Some people are very wrapped up in their identities, some not so much - and that accounts for the level of intensity of the response and can get into dangerous territory. Personally, I don't see any reason for mockery. Light teasing between people who know each other very well is one thing. Mockery on an anonymous forum is quite another. What I really don't get is this: If one truly sees, with crystal clarity, the oneness of all, then how is human dualistic confusion any less precious than anything else? It deserves respect - and the more dense the confusion, the more respect needed. I tend to make the assumption that most of the people on this forum are interested in opening up to that confusion and looking at it (maybe a wrong assumption). So 'poking', to me, really means being pointedly out-front in our observations. And open to the idea that our observations could be wrong. None of this needs to be done disrespectfully, although sometimes it gets taken that way anyway. Don't have much use for sarcasm either.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 9:28:47 GMT -5
mock : To treat with ridicule or contempt; deride. : To frustrate the hopes of; disappoint.
tease : To annoy or pester; vex. : To make fun of; mock playfully. : To urge persistently; coax:
confront : to present or face (with something), esp in order to accuse or criticize : to bring together for examination or comparison.
imagination : The formation of a mental image of something that is neither perceived as real nor present to the senses. : The ability to confront and deal with reality by using the creative power of the mind; resourcefulness : A traditional or widely held belief or opinion. : An unrealistic idea or notion; a fancy.
bonus word: ;-)
sarcasm : A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound. : A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Nov 22, 2013 9:29:18 GMT -5
Mockery is an attack on a person's self-image. Some people are very wrapped up in their identities, some not so much - and that accounts for the level of intensity of the response and can get into dangerous territory. Personally, I don't see any reason for mockery. Light teasing between people who know each other very well is one thing. Mockery on an anonymous forum is quite another. What I really don't get is this: If one truly sees, with crystal clarity, the oneness of all, then how is human dualistic confusion any less precious than anything else? It deserves respect - and the more dense the confusion, the more respect needed. I tend to make the assumption that most of the people on this forum are interested in opening up to that confusion and looking at it (maybe a wrong assumption). So 'poking', to me, really means being pointedly out-front in our observations. And open to the idea that our observations could be wrong. None of this needs to be done disrespectfully, although sometimes it gets taken that way anyway. Don't have much use for sarcasm either. What is it that deserves respect?
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Nov 22, 2013 9:31:27 GMT -5
Laughter, I have asked you many times to please stop mocking me, to stop making your jokes in reply to my posts, obscure references to god-knows-what, funny pictures, etc. You never respected my requests. I am very disappointed about that. I don't understand why you can't just respect my request. I even asked you once to at least tell me why you won't respect my request. You didn't answer. It is very easy to stop mocking people, but first you have to get control over your ego. I think especially as a moderator you should at least try. ok. read that. Most of your specific complaints lately though, have been about the references to Idiocracy ... sorry man but if you're gonna be Joe Bauers ... well ... you know ...
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Nov 22, 2013 9:52:24 GMT -5
So this topic of mockery came up in The Great Debate, and it's not as if we haven't had this meta-discussion around here like a dozen times already, but perhaps the issue is ripe once more. We all project an image onto the screen in front to the other members here, every one of us. It can never ever be anything more than a card-board cut-out of us, no matter how much of ourselves we share, no matter how fine a relief we paint of the self-portrait, it's not even a single flesh-and-blood meeting ... which just gives an image with even finer detail anyway. I'm sorry but when someone puts up an image that is one that projects seriousness and sobriety ... it's funny. The point was made to me that the ridicule might be hurtful and psychologically damaging, and that's not a laughing matter, but I don't see any examples here where someone has projected an image of vulnerability or fragility and has been subjected to ridicule. As a matter of fact, I'll say right now that as moderator that if that case arises I won't hesitate to act ... but I've never seen anything even close to that here, as this isn't the sort of milieu that attracts those seeking therapy. Yes, this is the Unmoderated section, but I'll bend the rules to suspend one and only one activity from this thread: mocking. While it's always possible that a parallel version of the thread might pop up, I'll not be the one to fire the first shot. Other than that, it's open season, no limits just as any other Unmoderated thread. Thanks for reading. When you mock, deride and abuse you make an assessment that the one being mocked, derided and abused can take it. You might be wrong. It may LOOK like someone is able to handle it, but you don't know that. Someone may say they can take it, but you don't know that. This is an internet forum, and what we see and know of each other is limited. I see the game you are playing as naive and potentially dangerous. Maybe you feel you have to live up to your name by creating humour in the form of mocking....I don't know. This comes down to a question of the experience available to the user. In my estimation, most of the venues on the internet for discussion involve some seriously amygdala-challenged individuals, as described nicely by this guy here, and provide no constraints on that. The venues for discussion that revolve around spirituality, such as the one I linked to there, and say, SF, tend to shelter the user and close that off completely. It's true what you say that one can never know for certain the mental health profile of the one that they're corresponding with, and I've overheard E' mentioning that he likes to observe for a period of time before engaging, but of course, all that can ever be observed is a front. Thing is, that if someone is presenting a front that heightens the potential for ridicule, there's no way that they're going to be free of it on the internet at large. Should there be an expectation that a self-image revolving around spirituality should be free from disparagement and ridicule? Well, there are plenty of spaces for that, and now with the NAT concept, we even have that here at ST.org. Thing is, that there is a common theme in the works of the spiritual Teachers that Shawn chose to review on spiritualteachers.org: questioning conceptual structure. In my opinion, if you make the site ridicule-proof for the most vulnerable among the population then you deprive everyone else of the opportunity for a unique user experience. The fact is that sometimes, those spirituality-based conceptual structures are entangled with the self-image presented, and in that case any questioning that avoids the self-image avoids those structures.
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Nov 22, 2013 9:55:28 GMT -5
mock : To treat with ridicule or contempt; deride. : To frustrate the hopes of; disappoint. tease : To annoy or pester; vex. : To make fun of; mock playfully. : To urge persistently; coax: confront : to present or face (with something), esp in order to accuse or criticize : to bring together for examination or comparison. imagination : The formation of a mental image of something that is neither perceived as real nor present to the senses. : The ability to confront and deal with reality by using the creative power of the mind; resourcefulness : A traditional or widely held belief or opinion. : An unrealistic idea or notion; a fancy. bonus word: ;-) sarcasm : A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound. : A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule. (** glances at subject line of the thread **) (** self-moderates near mutttley-snicker **)
|
|
|
Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 22, 2013 10:15:32 GMT -5
ok. read that. Most of your specific complaints lately though, have been about the references to Idiocracy ... sorry man but if you're gonna be Joe Bauers ... well ... you know ... Silly non-sequitur. The truth is that your behaviour is based on despicable motives, you're just trying to boost and defend your ego at the expense of others. I am the undisputed champion of trolling, I know the motives exactly. You can't fool me. I have no idea what movie your picture is from, but just because you're using a picture from that movie does that mean that I'm entitled to constantly make jokes about you made from references to that movie? You're argument is basically that it's my own fault if you make jokes about me? Crazy. Do you think this forum is a jungle or something? Usually it's when I'm in some serious discussion, with someone else or you, and then out of nowhere you come and make some idiotic joke. I don't care if I call myself Joe Bauers or whatever, your joke simply has nothing to do with the discussion. I also have asked you to simply not reply to me in the form of jokes. How hard can it be to respect that? I absolutely hate it when people make jokes about me, especially jokes that I don't understand, you knowingly and repeatedly give me a bad experience, just stop doing that.
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Nov 22, 2013 10:21:05 GMT -5
ok. read that. Most of your specific complaints lately though, have been about the references to Idiocracy ... sorry man but if you're gonna be Joe Bauers ... well ... you know ... Silly non-sequitur. The truth is that your behaviour is based on despicable motives, you're just trying to boost and defend your ego at the expense of others. I am the undisputed champion of trolling, I know the motives exactly. You can't fool me. I have no idea what movie your picture is from, but just because you're using a picture from that movie does that mean that I'm entitled to constantly make jokes about you made from references to that movie? You're argument is basically that it's my own fault if you make jokes about me? Crazy. Do you think this forum is a jungle or something? Usually it's when I'm in some serious discussion, with someone else or you, and then out of nowhere you come and make some idiotic joke. I don't care if I call myself Joe Bauers or whatever, your joke simply has nothing to do with the discussion. I also have asked you to simply not reply to me in the form of jokes. How hard can it be to respect that? I absolutely hate it when people make jokes about me, especially jokes that I don't understand, you knowingly and repeatedly give me a bad experience, just stop doing that.
|
|
|
Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 22, 2013 10:23:50 GMT -5
Obvious mockery again. Didn't you say "no mockery allowed"? What part don't you believe me? I absolutely hate it when I'm being mocked. And there you're doing it again. What is wrong with you? You think I'm just trying to imitate Kaufman all the time?
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Nov 22, 2013 10:33:30 GMT -5
When I look at the screen I reflect on my immediate view, but I also will step back and contemplate differing perspectives. I have conversations so that others can inspire me to go outside the box of my immediate perspective - to walk around it, and explore it from different angles. The reflective question for you laughter, might be, why do you react to others with mockery? What point within yourself drives that ad what do you get back from it? I can't answer those questions for you. But if I was mocking somebody, I would be blocking the different perspective that they offered. There are times when I've looked at that perspective and see something ridiculous in it. But to have a default setting as mocking would surely make me blind to any new perspectives. Generally speaking it's when something I read seems to me to be so obviously stuck in a conceptual position, and usually one that is overtly related to self-image, as to find it very very funny. There's nothing to come back from it as by the time the mockery is up the mirth has come and gone.
|
|