|
Post by enigma on Nov 13, 2013 15:16:12 GMT -5
Your saying that the words being used are not to your satisfaction as far as descriptions are concerned. But the fact is there doesn't exist any description that can describe what is being talked about here. There is only This...only what is happening, and there is no possibility of the essence of This being described, grasped or known. The problem is that me attempts to grasp This with awareness, and that action instantly separates and objectifies This, making into two that which is wonderfully floating, effervescent and ungraspable. trf, your sig line: "NOTHING matters, THIS matters, the UN-MAMIFEST matters, LIFE matters, but there is NOBODY here that it matters to. " UN-MAMIFEST?? Spelling matters. But there's nobody there that it matters too.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Nov 13, 2013 15:20:07 GMT -5
In general, mind is not fond of fear, death and ignorance, which is usually the catalyst for suffering, and the self it is fond of is it's own thought structure of a self and not the self that was being referred to. Mind is just another description for me or I or self. It's mental constructs are believed to be real in the dream of me... It's a wonderfully and un-fulfilling story of me, which is uniquely human and abstractly without purpose. And so for the apparent seeker, all the elements of the dream story like fear, death, and ignorance seems very real. But it's just a dream, just an illusion. I'm not saying they don't seem real. All I'm saying is, in general, mind is not fond of fear, death and ignorance.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Nov 13, 2013 15:26:23 GMT -5
Some fingers point directly to the moon, and other fingers point to Uranus. The fact that words are inadequate doesn't mean pointing to Uranus is just as good as pointing to the moon. There is nobody pointing at the moon or Uranus...that is dualism. What's happening is Wholeness is pretending to be a separate person that is pointing at something it thinks it lost and has to find so that it can be Wholeness... That there is a separate pointer is a nonsense. I know. All I'm saying is, some fingers point directly to the moon, and other fingers point to Uranus. The fact that words are inadequate doesn't mean pointing to Uranus is just as good as pointing to the moon.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2013 16:32:42 GMT -5
Mind is just another description for me or I or self. It's mental constructs are believed to be real in the dream of me... It's a wonderfully and un-fulfilling story of me, which is uniquely human and abstractly without purpose. And so for the apparent seeker, all the elements of the dream story like fear, death, and ignorance seems very real. But it's just a dream, just an illusion. I'm not saying they don't seem real. All I'm saying is, in general, mind is not fond of fear, death and ignorance. And I'm saying there is no such thing as mind... What is happening is that thinking arises and sometimes thoughts will form into belief systems which are still experienced randomly by an apparent individual in what seems like a story based in time. So sometimes thoughts arise and form into a belief system in which there can be a fondness for fear, death and ignorance.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2013 16:38:49 GMT -5
For most?.....An imagined excuse. For Me?......'I don't Know'. You mean you don't know what bed your going to wake up in? No, not knowing is a state of conciousness
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2013 16:40:33 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2013 16:43:28 GMT -5
There is nobody pointing at the moon or Uranus...that is dualism. What's happening is Wholeness is pretending to be a separate person that is pointing at something it thinks it lost and has to find so that it can be Wholeness... That there is a separate pointer is a nonsense. I know. All I'm saying is, some fingers point directly to the moon, and other fingers point to Uranus. The fact that words are inadequate doesn't mean pointing to Uranus is just as good as pointing to the moon. I'm saying that it has no relevance to This... It's only relevance is within the illusion of dream seekers and dream teachers. If your a dream seeker and want the best dream teacher, it's best to find one that points to the moon and not Uranus.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2013 16:48:12 GMT -5
You mean you don't know what bed your going to wake up in? No, not knowing is a state of conciousness For me, when I say "I don't know" it's a response to a question or the dead end of an investigation. It's not a practice or anything. I just don't know. It might be a state of consciousness. It's like you're walking along outside looking directly at the ground. It's a cloudy misty day and you're just zero'd in on where you can see. Then you come to the edge of a cliff and you stop, looking out into the foggy abyss. When Socrates said 'I know that I know nothing' I don't think he was pointing to a particularly special state of mind or consciousness. He was primarily pointing to the foundationless of all knowledge. And also, he was pointing to the very simple fact of knowing this (also absurdly paradoxical).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2013 17:09:16 GMT -5
No, not knowing is a state of conciousness For me, when I say "I don't know" it's a response to a question or the dead end of an investigation. It's not a practice or anything. I just don't know. It might be a state of consciousness. It's like you're walking along outside looking directly at the ground. It's a cloudy misty day and you're just zero'd in on where you can see. Then you come to the edge of a cliff and you stop, looking out into the foggy abyss. When Socrates said 'I know that I know nothing' I don't think he was pointing to a particularly special state of mind or consciousness. He was primarily pointing to the foundationless of all knowledge. And also, he was pointing to the very simple fact of knowing this (also absurdly paradoxical). All those points are relevent to the knowing mind. But 'not knowing' can be a state of conciousness in this moment....it is the state of conciousness that UG went on about for his whole life...all of his 'teaching', almost everything he did with his students and friends was to get them to let go of knowing into a 'not knowing' state of conciousness. Its a very 'open' state of not identifying or understanding stuff, being empty of all that. When I look at a room, I don't look and identify, there is just the looking, the being....'not knowing' is a very primordial state. Really, there is not even a looking, just an IS empty of meaning, identification, and understanding. There is an openess in this, an un-narrowing of conciousness. Give it a try ;-) Ironically, it was you who inadvertently helped me discover the wonder of a 'not knowing' state of consciousness ;-)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2013 17:12:05 GMT -5
For me, when I say "I don't know" it's a response to a question or the dead end of an investigation. It's not a practice or anything. I just don't know. It might be a state of consciousness. It's like you're walking along outside looking directly at the ground. It's a cloudy misty day and you're just zero'd in on where you can see. Then you come to the edge of a cliff and you stop, looking out into the foggy abyss. When Socrates said 'I know that I know nothing' I don't think he was pointing to a particularly special state of mind or consciousness. He was primarily pointing to the foundationless of all knowledge. And also, he was pointing to the very simple fact of knowing this (also absurdly paradoxical). All those points are relevent to the knowing mind. But 'not knowing' can be a state of conciousness in this moment....it is the state of conciousness that UG went on about for his whole life...all of his 'teaching', almost everything he did with his students and friends was to get them to let go of knowing into a 'not knowing' state of conciousness. Its a very 'open' state of not identifying or understanding stuff, being empty of all that. When I look at a room, I don't look and identify, there is just the looking, the being....'not knowing' is a very primordial state. Really, there is not even a looking, just an IS empty of meaning, identification, and understanding. There is an openess in this, an un-narrowing of conciousness. Give it a try ;-) Sounds the same as 'coming empty.' Also attending the actual.
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Nov 13, 2013 18:09:39 GMT -5
and? ... there's some contradiction there?? ... Not with the everywhere part, but maybe with the nowhere part. Ah o.k. could mean mental confusion? Way I see is that including the nowhere signals a distance from the idea of integrated interconnected oneness ( ) that leaving it off doesn't.
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Nov 15, 2013 8:29:11 GMT -5
Saving the world is the epitome of not allowing. No, we can make some greed laws. We allow all found greedy to visit the healing incarceration center. Outsourcing your problem? That's still not allowing.
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Nov 15, 2013 8:33:29 GMT -5
Same question: What does that even mean? First overt sign of greed? Having too much money? And in this day and age, it's quite obvious, LoL. It sounds like getting the flu shot...that way greed won't spread to the rest of the population... If it's genetic then we are doomed.
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Nov 15, 2013 9:00:36 GMT -5
Your focus is on entirely irrelevant stuff. Irrelevant to what? Enlightenment.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Nov 15, 2013 11:54:36 GMT -5
I'm not saying they don't seem real. All I'm saying is, in general, mind is not fond of fear, death and ignorance. And I'm saying there is no such thing as mind... What is happening is that thinking arises and sometimes thoughts will form into belief systems which are still experienced randomly by an apparent individual in what seems like a story based in time. So sometimes thoughts arise and form into a belief system in which there can be a fondness for fear, death and ignorance. What sort of belief system would result in that?
|
|