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Post by earnest on Nov 10, 2013 4:12:38 GMT -5
Is greed perfectly unacceptable? It will be so long as you have a problem with it Im not across all your posts re greed, but it certainly seems a hot topic for you.
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Post by earnest on Nov 10, 2013 5:59:34 GMT -5
It will be so long as you have a problem with it Im not across all your posts re greed, but it certainly seems a hot topic for you. So, lets say I find enlightened people murdering people and I come here and say: Is murder perfectly unacceptable? Would you say: "It will be so long as you have a problem with it " Before you were talking about greed and now you're talking about murder... Finding hypotheticals to argue against is a game that goes on for ever (a dead-end perhaps? ). The question that comes to mind for me is why are you doing that? The world is never, EVER, *!*EV-VAAAAAHHH*!*, going to line up perfectly with your version of how it should be (people not being greedy, bad things not happening to good people). So what then are you going to do?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 10, 2013 12:17:08 GMT -5
Is greed perfectly unacceptable? The spiritual path is followed 100% via non-coercion. We all need tons of help but we all essentially go it alone. You are responsible for your thoughts and actions, ALONE, not anyone else's. You are not responsible for anyone else nor is anyone else responsible for you. So, the only real question here is whether you are greedy or not. Concerning a teacher or a teaching, you get to pick, you have to pick. The dilemma here is that you will pick a teacher or a teaching according to your own predilection. IOW, you will pick according to the reflection of your own ego/personality/false self/cultural self. IOW, who or what you pick will be a projection from your own consciousness, the world will mirror what's inside you. This happens everywhere, with everybody. In an extreme (sad) form, psychologically, picking a wife or partner it's called co-dependency, a form of lock & key, we pick stuff that conforms to our own crap. As Dr. Phil would say, "You picked her". Expanding this to your past history, just because someone says they're enlightened doesn't necessarily mean they're enlightened. If fact, I'd be wary of any teacher who claims to be enlightened. Enlightened according to who's definition of enlightenment? Saying all this to say that we all just get f**ked all up one side and down the other until we realized that we are just f**ked, period. Then what do you do? I don't know, for you. If I were to tell you what to do my telling could be my own subjective projections and your hearing (reading), likewise, would be subjective, you would either hear or not-hear according to your own subjectivity, according to your own ego/personality/false self/ cultural self. IOW, still you're f**ked. We're all just hamster's running a squirrel-cage. It's called samsara, the wheel, a merry-go-round. That person who screwed you, was as enlightened as my dead dog Spock (hit by a car 38 years ago). No enlightened person is going to be greedy. If you are greedy you are taking from someone else something you don't need. That someone else is you and if you take from someone else you are essentially not-seeing that that someone else is a part of you, and in my book that would negate the least definition of what enlightenment is. IOW, enlightenment and greed cannot in any way, shape or form, correspond, fit together, be part of the same consciousness. In light of all that, Is greed perfectly acceptable?, isn't even an acceptable question. No, it's not, but there is not one thing of God's green earth that you can do about it as it concerns anyone else besides yourself (to try to make someone else not-greedy would be a form of coercion, not allowed in The Master Game). But there is an exception to what I've said here. A real teacher could see that you are greedy (hypothetically speaking), and could act the part of being greedy as a test for you or to show your own greed. IOW, you are still f**ked. There are no exterior answers. You have to find the questions, inside, and you have to find the answers, inside. However, if I had to take a wild guess, I'd say you have a (personal) problem with greed. But that's not different from anyone else, we all have our little issues that come in the package with/as ego/personality/false self/cultural self. IOW, you are not special in any way, we're all in the same boat...........or once were....... Just move on with the plan.........you're stuck........ Welcome to life. sdp
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Post by silence on Nov 10, 2013 12:33:07 GMT -5
Is greed perfectly unacceptable? I'm not even sure what perfectly unacceptable means.
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Post by desertrat on Nov 10, 2013 12:37:22 GMT -5
One mans greed is another mans disire to have nice things . A few people like to live in a cave and have nothing or very little. The man in the cave would see a guy that drives an old beat up car and lives in an old house as greedy .
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 10, 2013 12:38:28 GMT -5
Additionally (read the previous post for this to make sense), I think it's Chuang Tzu who tells the story about fishing with a net. Ego/personality/false self/cultural self is a filter that everything which passes into you has to pass through to be perceived by you, to be recognized by you. Only stuff gets through that conforms to your own personal net. Your net (freejoy) catches greed.
There was once this dude fishing with a net and asked his Master where fish came from, as there were no tiny fish in the sea. He figured that big fish came from smaller fish, as this was the case with all land animals. He told his master that there were no fish in the sea smaller than 1".
The Master then pointed out that the net he was using had a one-inch mesh........
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As we move along the path we have to progressively acquire nets with a smaller "mesh". Eventually, there's no more need for a net of any kind. I'd call that full enlightenment. There is no longer obstruction by ego/personality/false self/cultural self. You take in everything, see the world as it is in reality.
sdp
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Post by silence on Nov 10, 2013 12:50:33 GMT -5
In an extreme (sad) form, psychologically, picking a wife or partner it's called co-dependency, a form of lock & key, we pick stuff that conforms to our own crap. As Dr. Phil would say, "You picked her".
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Post by desertrat on Nov 10, 2013 13:08:14 GMT -5
On Dr. Phil Mc Graw , he is a guy making a t.v. show . Some times I like him , some times I dont . He helps people , but he does use them to make money .
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Post by silver on Nov 10, 2013 13:13:43 GMT -5
It will be so long as you have a problem with it Im not across all your posts re greed, but it certainly seems a hot topic for you. So, lets say I find enlightened people murdering people and I come here and say: Is murder perfectly unacceptable?
Would you say:
"It will be so long as you have a problem with it " It's tangential, but I like it. Greed is too big an umbrella to have a conversation about in an in-depth fashion. You need to narrow it down a bit.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2013 13:18:31 GMT -5
One mans greed is another mans disire to have nice things . A few people like to live in a cave and have nothing or very little. The man in the cave would see a guy that drives an old beat up car and lives in an old house as greedy . A man with a beat up old car, an old house and a passel of dependents who decided to go live in a cave instead would be seen as greedy by the people who saw what kind of hardship his dependents went through without him.
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Post by desertrat on Nov 10, 2013 16:16:06 GMT -5
One mans greed is another mans disire to have nice things . A few people like to live in a cave and have nothing or very little. The man in the cave would see a guy that drives an old beat up car and lives in an old house as greedy . A man with a beat up old car, an old house and a passel of dependents who decided to go live in a cave instead would be seen as greedy by the people who saw what kind of hardship his dependents went through without him. I know there are guys that split on there family , a few may go live in a cave , but that is mot what I was talking about .Lets say some one lived in a cave or a forest with little or nothing . They might see some one with just a little more as greedy , even if all they have is a beet up old car , old house , #@!%y ( female dog) wife , ect.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 10, 2013 17:54:04 GMT -5
Is greed perfectly unacceptable? When other people are greedy then it's unacceptable. When I am greedy then it's perfectly fine. I am greedy miser and I wouldn't want it any other way. If I knew how to cheat people out of their money without suffering the consequences then I would do it right now. Now that I tihnk about it, I think I would do almost anything for money as long as it's other people that pay in one way or another and not me and my family. In general what people don't understand about ethics/law is that it pertains to "everyone". But I am not everyone. My family is not everyone. I am excluded from the group of everyone, that's why ethics don't concern me, except when I suffer injustice. If everyone would think like I do then society would break down, but then again, I am not everyone. That's the plain and simple ugly truth.
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Nov 10, 2013 18:05:17 GMT -5
It will be so long as you have a problem with it Im not across all your posts re greed, but it certainly seems a hot topic for you. So, lets say I find enlightened people murdering people and I come here and say: Is murder perfectly unacceptable? Would you say: "It will be so long as you have a problem with it " When someone else does it then they belong in jail forever, of course things like justifiable self-defense and vengeance excluded. But for example if my brother kills someone then usually I will defend him no matter what. I will stop defending him when his crime is so evil that I don't consider him to be my brother anymore and instead he is just another person.
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Post by earnest on Nov 11, 2013 4:25:05 GMT -5
So, lets say I find enlightened people murdering people and I come here and say: Is murder perfectly unacceptable? Would you say: "It will be so long as you have a problem with it " Before you were talking about greed and now you're talking about murder... Finding hypotheticals to argue against is a game that goes on for ever (a dead-end perhaps? ). The question that comes to mind for me is why are you doing that? The world is never, EVER, *!*EV-VAAAAAHHH*!*, going to line up perfectly with your version of how it should be (people not being greedy, bad things not happening to good people). So what then are you going to do? Freejoy, i'm interested to hear your reply to my response above.
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Post by Reefs on Nov 11, 2013 4:52:13 GMT -5
So, lets say I find enlightened people murdering people and I come here and say: Is murder perfectly unacceptable? Would you say: "It will be so long as you have a problem with it " Before you were talking about greed and now you're talking about murder... Finding hypotheticals to argue against is a game that goes on for ever (a dead-end perhaps? ). The question that comes to mind for me is why are you doing that? The world is never, EVER, *!*EV-VAAAAAHHH*!*, going to line up perfectly with your version of how it should be (people not being greedy, bad things not happening to good people). So what then are you going to do? I suspect an entirely selfish reason behind his reasoning.
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