dei
Junior Member
Posts: 54
|
Post by dei on Apr 12, 2011 15:03:21 GMT -5
Nothing is going to happen.
This is it.
|
|
|
Post by dreamerrach on Apr 12, 2011 15:19:57 GMT -5
ok
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Apr 12, 2011 15:24:07 GMT -5
Yeah, this is it. Hehe. Basically, the focus is on seeing through the illusion that this isn't it. Pretty funny stuff!
|
|
|
Post by michaelsees on Apr 12, 2011 15:30:47 GMT -5
Nope wrong everything is going to happen which in a way your correct. On the surface Neo-Advaita, which has no worthwhile methodology, seems fairly reasonable. By and large it teaches that you are not the body-mind-ego entity and that you are non-dual awareness, both of which are in harmony with tradition. If reality is non-dual, then there is no one that is ignorant of his or her self because knowledge and ignorance are duality. If there is no ignorance of who we are, there is no need for a teaching, a teacher or a student. In non-dual reality there is no body and mind to be something other than the self—awareness—so there is no bondage and no liberation, no suffering and enjoying, no joy and no sorrow. If you are non-dual awareness you cannot do anything, so there are no right and wrong actions. You were never born and you never die and experience does not exist. This teaching causes a problem because it does not take experience into account. So you either have to deny the existence of experience, which can only take place in duality, or modify the teaching. You cannot deny the existence of experience—although Neo-Advaita does its level best—because it exists. So to tell someone caught in the experiential world that he or she does not exist, or that nothing can be done to attain enlightenment is not helpful. The sages who gave us Self Inquiry were considerably more sophisticated and worked out an intelligent solution. They assigned a provisional reality to duality which is in harmony with the experience of everyone and then proceeded to destroy it, using teachings which correspond with the common sense logic of the seeker’s own experience Without the notion of a provisional or apparent reality, which experience confirms, you are forced to superimpose the idea that all is consciousness on empirical reality. Needless to say, it does not apply to this level of reality. A verse in the scriptures on Yoga that says, ‘a yogi in samadhi sees no difference between a lump of gold and the excreta of a crow.’ Presumably, an enlightened Neo-Advaitin in dire financial straits might attempt to pawn a handful crow poop and sweep his lump of gold into the garbage can. Non-duality, non-difference, does not mean sameness. It means that from the self’s perspective there is no difference, but from the level of the body and mind there are only differences. This discrimination between what is real and what is apparent is the signature of an unenlightened person. In fact, one of the definitions of enlightenment found in the scriptures of Self Inquiry is ‘the discrimination between what is real and what is apparent.’ When you superimpose the notion of non-duality on multiplicity, you add a belief that will eventually have to be discarded at some point. This kind of spiritual belief, which is just ignorance, is exceedingly hard to investigate, if it taken to be the truth.
Michael
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Apr 12, 2011 16:12:24 GMT -5
Nothing is going to happen. This is it. This is actually a very powerful insight. It removes the future from the equation and focuses one's attention upon whatever is happening now.
|
|
|
Post by teetown on Apr 13, 2011 11:51:36 GMT -5
Michael you're funny. You talk about self inquiry in this thread, but when I asked a question about self inquiry, you gave me some pretty standard neo advaita lines about how I should just stop and do nothing.
|
|
|
Post by michaelsees on Apr 13, 2011 13:52:05 GMT -5
Michael you're funny. You talk about self inquiry in this thread, but when I asked a question about self inquiry, you gave me some pretty standard neo advaita lines about how I should just stop and do nothing. I doubt that I said that. But that's the problem you can get brainwash with the neo stuff. what I said was to be still and quiet which is far from doing nothing. Taking the time to just sit and be quiet with yourself is a practice. Michael
|
|
|
Post by ivory on Apr 13, 2011 17:33:08 GMT -5
I don't know if this was the exact instance but I have heard you say, "stop seeking, just give up." I blew up on you when you said that. Irrelevant really.
But I do find it interesting how you contradict yourself repeatedly and point fingers without even realizing it. It seems to me that you prefer your opinions and ideas to truth. You'd be a much more valuable contributor on this board if you asked yourself, "Can I absolutely know that is true?" before posting, debating, or soliciting advice.
I doubt there are any here that are "brainwashed" by neo-advaita. If they were, they probably wouldn't be on this board seeking.
|
|
|
Post by michaelsees on Apr 13, 2011 18:08:49 GMT -5
I don't know if this was the exact instance but I have heard you say, "stop seeking, just give up." I blew up on you when you said that. Irrelevant really. But I do find it interesting how you contradict yourself repeatedly and point fingers without even realizing it. It seems to me that you prefer your opinions and ideas to truth. You'd be a much more valuable contributor on this board if you asked yourself, "Can I absolutely know that is true?" before posting, debating, or soliciting advice. I doubt there are any here that are "brainwashed" by neo-advaita. If they were, they probably wouldn't be on this board seeking. huh the whole board is neo-advaita with the exception of ZD at times giving some instruction on seeing the actual. As far as truth goes I am only concerned on what I know for myself as truth but I can spot a counterfeit very fast. Truth will set you free untruth will keep you in a dialogue forever. Michael
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Apr 13, 2011 22:10:26 GMT -5
Nope wrong everything is going to happen which in a way your correct. On the surface Neo-Advaita, which has no worthwhile methodology, seems fairly reasonable. By and large it teaches that you are not the body-mind-ego entity and that you are non-dual awareness, both of which are in harmony with tradition. If reality is non-dual, then there is no one that is ignorant of his or her self because knowledge and ignorance are duality. If there is no ignorance of who we are, there is no need for a teaching, a teacher or a student. I'll address my comments to whoever the author actually is. There is no-one who is ignorant but there is ignorance. The conclusion that there is not, and therefore no need of teachings, is igno-advaita (the inability to conceptually absorb the pointers) The pointer points to the fact that there is not a separate person who is ignorant. Not that there is no ignorance. If there were no bondage or suffering, or the potential of joy and liberation at the other end of realization, why would a teacher teach? Again, the pointer is that there is no person who is in bondage and no person to become liberated. Bondage is the belief that there is, and liberation is liberation from that belief. The teachings of non-duality point to the fundamental Truth beyond all appearances. It is not tasked to take appearances into account. What is said is that experience is an appearance. It may also be said that experience is an illusion, but this doesn't mean experience is not happening. That sounds like another igno-advaita conclusion. The truth isn't helpful? What is being said is that you are not a person caught in the world and nothing need be done to escape. This is all that must be seen. There isn't some additional escape plan that must be completed beyond the realization that you are not a prisoner. What sort of imaginary escape plan would be useful to the imagined person? "Provisional reality" is a euphemism for pandering to delusion. Eastern Hindu beliefs are as intractable as Western Christianity, and if I were trying to teach non-duality to a Christian, I'd likely be sounding a lot like A Course in Miracles, but fortunately not all Westerners are burdened by such belief systems and don't need to be pandered to. Non-duality is not a life improvement scheme. For that you might want to check out Law of Attraction or a plethora of other self improvement plans. Non-duality concepts cannot be put into practice in the daily life of the separate person. This is only possible when practices are offered as a part of the pandering to the illusion of a 'provisional reality' in which the person can practice really hard to become an enlightened person, and then if all goes well, finally realize the ignorance and absurdity of the whole process of becoming what one already is, after walking the long, hard road to arrive at where one never left. I'm guessing you never actually heard any teacher say it does. Nice looking straw man, though. 'The self' doesn't have a perspective, but if it did it might be that everything is what self IS. Differences are appearances and they still appear. Non-duality also does not mean non-difference. It simply means not two.
|
|
|
Post by dreamerrach on Apr 13, 2011 22:24:52 GMT -5
I still dunno what this neo advaita is, though I see the word everywhere and have tried to figure it out. It seems as slippery a concept as "god"
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Apr 13, 2011 22:33:36 GMT -5
It's just igno-advaita. Hehe. Near as I can figure, it refers to the most direct teaching and is the manifestation of the resistance that comes out of that directness.
|
|
|
Post by michaelsees on Apr 13, 2011 23:11:24 GMT -5
Here's your problem E. You are so locked into your own mindset of what Self is, what awakening is you cannot see what is written in front of you. I understand perfectly what the author is saying(Dennis Waite) but you see he is speaking from 2000 years of Advaita. He is speaking from a true path of knowledge. The other problem you have that I see is your cop out that you don't know anything . Listen you cannot have it both ways if you don't know anything then you don't know if the author is spot on or not. IF you do know what awakening is and what the Vedanta Advaita path is all about then you would know that for 2000 years people have practice this tried and proven path and it works. How wise is it to accept any kind of criticism from someone that says over and over again they know nothing?
You also know nothing about a Provisional self which is simply the acknowledgment of your body/mind and using this to awaken. It's so simple you miss it and give it much more power than what it simply is. When you sit and be still and quiet you are using your body/mind to do so. You progress using your body/mind. What do you think Nis did for 3 years following what his Guru told him. He used all his spared time and finally had his awakening.
So again since you know nothing you are the last person that should critique anyone it's really simple . I cannot be more clear. One thing that is clear to me is by using whatever fits the situation for you example you either say I know nothing or you get critical this is not the way a person who is awake acts in the world.What I see time and again here is if anyone crosses you you get very defensive and try as hard as you can to dissect the other person words to prove them wrong. If they agree with you then your happy as a calm. Now ZD tends to stay away far more than you when I disagree though he does come back at times to agree with you. In truth your 2 peas in a pod. Your problem is you think all pods are the same or must behave the same which of course is nonsense.
Some here say I get defensive also there is a difference I am the only member here that openly will call you or ZD on your stuff if I feel you are off. I know where I am and what I am do you? Not that I am trying to prove anything or better than you or whatever. When you truly see what you are then you know when someone is talking BS from their mind or they are speaking truth. You tend to post most about what your opinion is of something but not something that is proven to work as a help to awaken.
No offense Michael
|
|
|
Post by mamza on Apr 14, 2011 0:16:18 GMT -5
I was going to quote all the places where you project your own critical nature onto E., but I don't think you'd listen anyway.
|
|
|
Post by michaelsees on Apr 14, 2011 0:59:25 GMT -5
I was going to quote all the places where you project your own critical nature onto E., but I don't think you'd listen anyway. It's not about that at all. I do not wish to debate this. The problem is your thinking. All I am doing is calling a person out as I see it. You see it different that's fine. E has his own opinions. I also have my own opinions. I also have had quite a few realizations of Oneness and E may have had also. The difference is I will agree more or tolerate posts by E. Not all of them but many I don't even respond too and some I will remark that it's a good post. However whenever I post something that does not fit in E box it gets only negative responses from E. If you don't see this which I doubt that you do as your awareness is not my awareness that's OK. Again all I do here is point out the dangers of wasting maybe even a lifetime with this neo-advaita crap and I am more than generous in seeing the otherside of things and posting much material that is on the fence with neo-advaita. However generosity is never returned which tells me immediately where some are coming from. So I will not debate this. As a matter of fact I may leave the group just like lightmystic did. I really only want to be part of something where people actually progress on their own journey but to be honest I was here on this forum over 2 years ago maybe even more and it's the same conversation going on which I feel leads nowhere. Anyhow no worries. Thanks for leaving things as they are. I see everything. This is far from my first Rodeo. Time for bed Michael
|
|