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Post by enigma on Apr 14, 2011 1:41:28 GMT -5
Here's your problem E. You are so locked into your own mindset of what Self is, what awakening is you cannot see what is written in front of you. I understand perfectly what the author is saying(Dennis Waite) but you see he is speaking from 2000 years of Advaita. He is speaking from a true path of knowledge. And because of that Dennis Waite is locked into that mindset of what Advaita should be, and it's a conceptual understanding that doesn't recognize what the most direct pointers are pointing to. He wants to be placated on this infinite path of becoming and he doesn't want to see it all collapse. It actually needs to collapse. First of all, this 2000 year tradition has such a miserable track record it's a shock that anybody ever takes an interest in it, and yet it seems that something else bypasses the rational mind and is drawn to it in spite of itself. Why would anybody pursue a discipline with a nearly 100% failure rate? Hard to say, but what we can say is that no teaching has a 'proven path'. If you actually understood the teachings instead of Waite's version, you would know why. Secondly, I don't claim to not know ignorance when I see it, nor do I claim to not have knowledge about the functioning of the human mind or how to wire up a hot tub. I know all sorts of things about the illusion, but I also know that none of it has anything at all to do with what I am. All of it appears within me and can't possibly say anything about me. What I HAVE said is that mind can't know anything about that because there is nothing to know. I just got through saying that all knowledge is ultimately irrelevant and I don't think that idea makes scholars very happy. What Waite said is that the provisional reality is created so that it can be destroyed. He didn't say it's an acknowledgment that it can be used to awaken. I didn't address either point. I said it's a euphemism for pandering to ego, and I also implied this may be necessary in the face of some religious dogma, and may not be necessary in the absence of it. There is potentially great value in a direct teaching for those who have eyes to see. I think Niz was devoted, determined, faithful and ready, and this resulted in his awakening, not some particular practice. I suspect he told you what he did to encourage similar qualities in you, he didn't say this practice was the cause of his awakening. Defensiveness and clam happiness are just more of your projections. Try to see how that plays out for you as you read these posts. You're bright and well informed, but unconsciousness does not yield to intellect and knowledge is not wisdom. ZD doesn't engage with most of the silliness here because he has no interest. I, on the other hand, have always had a fascination for how the human mind works and how it obscures truth, and so I become interested. There is also something else moving here but it would not be understood.
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Post by zendancer on Apr 14, 2011 9:54:34 GMT -5
E. wrote, "ZD doesn't engage with most of the silliness here because he has no interest."
I have an interest, but I've concluded that when a mind is happily closed, it makes more sense to engage with minds that are still open. The world is perfectly wonderful however it manifests, but there are only so many hours in the day, and it makes more sense to go where the probability of effectiveness is more favorable.
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Post by michaelsees on Apr 14, 2011 9:54:48 GMT -5
Come on E if you really think that Niz Guru did not give him a method well then you will always be stuck in your mind. You will only think whatever thoughts you have invested in over the many years. Niz indeed was given a method. To be fair I am pretty sure it was a simple method but a method nevertheless. Method=Practice it's really simple E if you just stop trying to dodge the truth ball.
If you do not know nothing at lets say the Ultimate level then you cannot know ignorance at any level. It's your mind making judgments. I also do this now and then but mostly I make observations on what I see and then I report it. don't kill the messenger does not work well on this site because of the neo-advaita "mob mentality" hehe
Michael
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Post by mamza on Apr 14, 2011 10:50:12 GMT -5
Michael, you severely misinterpret a lot of what people are saying.
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dei
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Post by dei on Apr 14, 2011 11:36:11 GMT -5
Sheesh... what a can of neo-igno-advaita worms. I don't think i said anything about neo-advaita, did i?
This is it. There's nothing else. The disappointment of my mind that this is it, is it. The relief that this is it, is it. The obviousness of this is it, is it. That's all. This. Now. Here. It.
Call off the search (as Papaji said)... This is it.
(And of course when i said 'nothing is going to happen'... i forgot to say that of course Michaelsees will post... that will always happen.)
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Post by teetown on Apr 14, 2011 11:54:32 GMT -5
Michael. What do you know about niz's method? This is a genuine question.
When I asked about self inquiry in my thread last week (niz's method) you posted some BS about how I should do nothing and be still. That has nothing to do with self inquiry. I think you yourself posted the niz gita on this forum, I wonder if you even read it?
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Post by michaelsees on Apr 14, 2011 11:59:14 GMT -5
Michael. What do you know about niz's method? This is a genuine question. When I asked about self inquiry in my thread last week (niz's method) you posted some BS about how I should do nothing and be still. That has nothing to do with self inquiry. I think you yourself posted the niz gita on this forum, I wonder if you even read it? Yes and that is a method and a practice. Open your eyes and ears. If you think just to be quiet and still the mind is not a method or self-inquiry you are gravely mistaken. This is what happens when you get stuck with concepts. You think you need a conceptual method for it to be a method. This is exactly why I work on making the method as non-conceptual as possible. Michael
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Post by teetown on Apr 14, 2011 12:07:28 GMT -5
So if you respect niz and his method so much, why would you discourage me from using it?
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Post by michaelsees on Apr 14, 2011 12:07:35 GMT -5
Michael, you severely misinterpret a lot of what people are saying. Your welcome to your opinion but I say I look behind the curtain of words where you and a few others may not even see a curtain. Look awakening , real awakening not glimpses of Oneness is rare. The reason it's rare or the best real time example I can give in this moment is this forum. Look and see the multitude of crap the mind has to attach with Ton's and guess what 30 years down the road if you just stay here you will just be here which in neo-advaita terms it's perfect but in honest and real terms no progress and for sure no real awakening will take place. The mind loves this place. I try to make things very simple so the mind does not attach but we have some very hard headstrong members not many but you know who you are. Michael
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2011 12:08:14 GMT -5
huh the whole board is neo-advaita with the exception of ZD .... Michael i dunno, when I hear you say this Michael, it just doesn't compute. that neo-advaita concept mostly resides in your head doesn't it? I for one don't know what you are talking about. yet i'm part of this board and am not ZD so I'm neo-advaita. it seems like a big story you've got going in your head, like you alone are fighting against some persistent delusion. it's a hero story i guess. also i've heard you say several times in the last couple days that you feel like you're posts aren't appreciated, that your generosity is not being returned in some way. i for one do appreciate the links and stuff you put up. it's great stuff and i thank you for that. (and i've heard many others say this sort of thing too.)
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Post by michaelsees on Apr 14, 2011 12:17:18 GMT -5
huh the whole board is neo-advaita with the exception of ZD .... Michael i dunno, when I hear you say this Michael, it just doesn't compute. that neo-advaita concept mostly resides in your head doesn't it? I for one don't know what you are talking about. yet i'm part of this board and am not ZD so I'm neo-advaita. it seems like a big story you've got going in your head, like you alone are fighting against some persistent delusion. it's a hero story i guess. also i've heard you say several times in the last couple days that you feel like you're posts aren't appreciated, that your generosity is not being returned in some way. i for one do appreciate the links and stuff you put up. it's great stuff and i thank you for that. (and i've heard many others say this sort of thing too.) Wrong Max your nut you know. I have never said several times that I am not apprciated. You have a problem Max you are like a old man that enjoys string things up IMO. I know what I post and the only thing I said in the last few days was a post to Richard in which I said it's nice to get a think you now and then. Your twisted mind made something of this and also made it sound like many times. What I said was the truth it is nice to get a thank you now and then but I have no investment if I get one or not. IF I was even a bit like that I would have stopped giving a long time ago here. I don't appre4ciated your sneaky attitude. I also do not care at all on how some may receive what I post. I am not in a popularity contest. Some thank me and grow from my words and some just stay where they are and try to get back at what I say. I really don't care. Sorry but yes I see you as a trouble make and a sneak. Your MO is to first make up a problem that does not exist and then make up a solution and at the same time hoping to get back to whoever you are trying to get. I simply do not trust a word you say Max you much too transparent with your pretend thank you's and bring in others you post just like a politician always putting some dirty spin on it. As I said your a nut case that gets off by stiring up trouble and doing it in a way where you feel you get away with it clean so your ego gets the prize. Michael Michael
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2011 12:25:22 GMT -5
i dunno, when I hear you say this Michael, it just doesn't compute. that neo-advaita concept mostly resides in your head doesn't it? I for one don't know what you are talking about. yet i'm part of this board and am not ZD so I'm neo-advaita. it seems like a big story you've got going in your head, like you alone are fighting against some persistent delusion. it's a hero story i guess. also i've heard you say several times in the last couple days that you feel like you're posts aren't appreciated, that your generosity is not being returned in some way. i for one do appreciate the links and stuff you put up. it's great stuff and i thank you for that. (and i've heard many others say this sort of thing too.) Wrong Max your nut you know. I have never said several times that I am not apprciated. You have a problem Max you are like a old man that enjoys string things up IMO. i really don't know what you mean by this. really! it's an interesting image. can you give a little more detail on the old man enjoying stringing things up? it sounds nice to me, so may be you're right! but i don't think you meant it that way.
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Post by michaelsees on Apr 14, 2011 12:50:51 GMT -5
Congrads Max you never gave up and now made it to my Iggy list.
bye Michael
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2011 13:01:33 GMT -5
does anyone else know what the image is michaelsees is referring to? an old man stringing things up?? pm me if you don't want to get iggied or add fuel to the fire.
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dei
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Post by dei on Apr 14, 2011 13:06:01 GMT -5
Michael... i'm not interested in virtual confrontation, but i have to say this.
I posted a simple insight. You could have considered it, or rejected it. But instead you judged it. You pigeon-holed it as "neo-advaita" (whatever that is, who cares? it's a label) and then ranted about your favorite hobby horse. I sorta read it, but mostly what you write is "blah blah blah" in my head. You have pretty much driven me from this board because of your long-winded opinionated posts. Is there ANY thread on the board right now in which you haven't added your two cents? Have you said anything new in the last six months? Have you listened to anyone else? Considered any other point of view but your own? Ignoring you doesn't even do any good because everyone quotes you in order to argue with you.
Perhaps i will make it to your coveted iggy list now... and then maybe you won't post in my threads any more. Win-win, right?
Grow up, sweetie. It's time. This is it.
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