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Post by michaelsees on Mar 25, 2011 12:18:02 GMT -5
The rapist if also afraid, afraid of them self in what they are doing. Fear is very deceptive Michael
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Post by Portto on Mar 25, 2011 14:34:05 GMT -5
There's never a single isolate reason for any of our actions. Trying to identify a cause is nothing but a game, albeit an enjoyable one. It can also be seen that fear and desire arise from actions (like a sidekick) and are not the cause of certain behavior.
For example, our heart may start racing in the face of imminent danger (speeding truck, tiger) and we can say that it's beating faster because of fear. However, the heart is alive in the chain of events while fear is a sticker on a paper wall.
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Post by enigma on Mar 25, 2011 18:59:43 GMT -5
Rape and pedophilia aren't really about the fulfillment of sexual desire at all. If that were the case, wouldn't it be easier and safer to find (or solicit) a willing partner? And what sort of a sexual urge is it exactly that expresses itself in the form of sex with children? Mostly it's about power and control, and often quite a bit of rage added in, but the dynamics can become very complex. At the root of it all is fear. To the extent that having sex isn't really about having an orgasm I agree that pedophilia isn't about the fulfillment of sexual desire. There are however many bizarre sexual practices based on desires and some of them involve an asymmetry between the participants and I don't think that we can exclude pedophilia from those practises. What do you mean by "asymmetry"? If you mean, for example, S and M or domination, all are willing participants and derive satisfaction or release through the role. Possibly, you define fear quite narrowly. Fear is at the root of control, anger, submission, judgment, inferiority, powerlessness and the like. Motivation is more fundamental than opportunity. However, what might stop me is compassion, empathy, caring, love, conscience, kindness.
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Post by enigma on Mar 25, 2011 19:06:19 GMT -5
"It can also be seen that fear and desire arise from actions (like a sidekick) and are not the cause of certain behavior."
So fear is the result of running from a lion??
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Post by someNOTHING! on Mar 25, 2011 19:09:23 GMT -5
Well, that's the thingy; instead of a cleverly designed koan, I saw unnecessary complexity. They can sound similar, but while one freezes the mind, the other engages it. Fair enough. Good well-intentioned point.
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Post by enigma on Mar 25, 2011 19:17:33 GMT -5
What's the sound of one fear shaking? Hehe.
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Post by michaelsees on Mar 25, 2011 19:29:28 GMT -5
So fear is the result of running from a lion?? Seems like a good enough reason to me? OF course in the days of old Yogananda met a Swami that would hunt tigers with his bare hands so there you go. Michael
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Post by someNOTHING! on Mar 25, 2011 19:53:10 GMT -5
What's the sound of one fear shaking? Hehe. Clever thump! Reminds me of a song,,,,, Pylon-"Crazy" Listen...listen...listen...listen... You're funny and you don't know why You're funny and you can't even cry You're funny and you don't know why You're funny and you don't even try So, your head keeps shakin' 'Cause you're arms are shakin' And, your feet are shakin' 'Cause the Earth is shakin' And, your head keeps shakin' 'Cause you're arms are shakin' And, your feet are shakin' 'Cause the Earth is shakin' Listen (shhh..) Listen (shhh..) Listen... Nothing can hurt you unless you want it to There are no answers Only reasons to be strong You take a walk, you take a walk You take a walk and you try to understand Nothing can hurt you unless you want it to Oooooooh... Your'e in love and you don't know WHY You're in love and you can even cry You're in love and you don't know why You're in love and you don't even try So, your head keeps shakin' 'Cause you're arms are shakin' And, your feet are shakin' 'Cause the Earth is shakin' And, your head keeps shakin' 'Cause you're arms are shakin' And, your feet are shakin' 'Cause the Earth is shakin' Listen...listen...listen... You're funny and you don't know why You're funny and you can't even cry You're funny and you don't know why You're funny and you don't even try
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Post by Portto on Mar 25, 2011 20:25:33 GMT -5
So fear is the result of running from a lion?? No. Do leaves blow in the wind because they are afraid? If anything, I would say fear is the result of thinking the lion is going to get you.
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Post by question on Mar 25, 2011 21:12:32 GMT -5
What do you mean by "asymmetry"? If you mean, for example, S and M or domination, all are willing participants and derive satisfaction or release through the role. I don't mean to trivialize the issue. I'm just pointing out that there is a sexual motivation behind pedophilia. If it were only anger and rage then the criminals would act it out in a different way. Anyways, it's not what's important here, I'm mainly asking how exactly fear fits into the picture. Why exactly is fear supposed to be the impetus? Yes, possibly, but it's still too nebulous for my taste. How would a step-by-step narrative look like that shows how fear motivates someone to do harm to someone of whom the criminal has nothing whatsoever to fear? True.
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Post by michaelsees on Mar 25, 2011 22:10:35 GMT -5
So fear is the result of running from a lion?? No. Do leaves blow in the wind because they are afraid? If anything, I would say fear is the result of thinking the lion is going to get you. LOL Lets go hunting and then you tell me. Fear is instinctual it's not a thinking thing many of times. Have you ever seen a person pee their pants because they thought they would die? I assure you they were not thinking I have to pee it just happens the same as fear at times. Instinct is not a thought process it just happens. Of course you can play with words like fear and instinct until the cows comes home but one thing for sure when a lion is chasing you you will do one of 2 things freeze in fear cuz you can't move and probably pee your pants or run like hell hehe Michael
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Post by enigma on Mar 25, 2011 22:27:02 GMT -5
So fear is the result of running from a lion?? No. Do leaves blow in the wind because they are afraid? If anything, I would say fear is the result of thinking the lion is going to get you. So what did you mean by 'fear arises from action'? What sort of action are you talking bout?
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Post by enigma on Mar 25, 2011 22:38:56 GMT -5
Yes, possibly, but it's still too nebulous for my taste. How would a step-by-step narrative look like that shows how fear motivates someone to do harm to someone of whom the criminal has nothing whatsoever to fear? Well, let's say a guy rapes a stranger because it makes him feel powerful and in control. After all, it's the complete domination of another against her will, and will have a powerful impact on the rest of her life. The need for control comes from a feeling of powerlessness, right? Powerlessness is grounded in fear. If one isn't afraid of feeling powerless, there's no problem with it. Of course, there can be other scenarios, like a hatred for women. Hatred of anything has fear at it's root. Judgment of women has fear at it's root. Feeling betrayed by women comes from anger, which has fear at it's root.
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Post by Portto on Mar 26, 2011 8:51:11 GMT -5
So what did you mean by 'fear arises from action'? What sort of action are you talking bout? Fear arises as an interpretation of what is happening. We might interpret hair standing on end as fear, but it's just hair on its end.
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Post by Portto on Mar 26, 2011 8:52:08 GMT -5
LOL Lets go hunting and then you tell me. OK. However, my favorite prey consists of apples.
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