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Post by enigma on Mar 23, 2011 17:10:35 GMT -5
Who we really are is worse than can be imagined and also better than can be imagined. We are Hitler and Jesus at the same time because there is nothing other than THIS. Yes, it is frightening to let go and trust the Absolute completely because ......who knows what will happen? However, this isn't "our" game;" it is God's game (call God IT if the word "God" is troublesome), and there is no separate entity at all. The fear you describe arises from conditioned thought structures. It will vanish when it vanishes. For now, focus on the actual; it will lead you home. Yeah I think at some point I realized that it is not because of any choice on my part that I am a "good guy" and that all "evil" is pretty much involuntary ignorance. I could be just as bad as that guy, I just got luckier. This realization removes the previously safe barrier between good people and "bad people".. and maybe that led me to this fear? Sharing it does help tho!! Yup. 'There but for the grace of God go I.' Dunno about fear but it does lead to compassion.
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Post by teknix on Mar 23, 2011 20:42:36 GMT -5
Maybe you could start by purging the negativity. By this I mean showing remorse for all those you have wronged and understanding why you did what you did. Then you can forgive youself and turn that negativity into wisdom. Although the remorse won't purify you if you continue to do what you did, as it would have been false remorse.
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Post by enigma on Mar 23, 2011 21:29:12 GMT -5
What purifies one of the remorse?
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Post by karen on Mar 24, 2011 1:22:05 GMT -5
I once worried a lot about letting go and what would I do? What's to stop me from hurting someone? Stealing, or worse? I pondered this for over a year when an answer popped into my head out of the blue - "why would I steal or do worse?" That is what would stop me from not hurting other people - the fact that I have no interest in doing so. There literally is no upside.
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Post by enigma on Mar 24, 2011 1:47:06 GMT -5
Yup, that was what I was getting at too.
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Post by sherry on Mar 24, 2011 4:45:59 GMT -5
Hello self-addicted anonymous! You will be my involuntary support group for this confession. I am apparently very scared that I am a bad person. For some reason, I feel deep down that if I let go of everything, of who I am (lol), then it might turn out I am a very bad person. I'm afraid I would be a rapist murderer pedophile at the core, and the only thing stopping this from coming forth is the "me structure" protecting me and the world from the horrors in the deep. I've been battling with this secret fear now for a long time, it just wont go away, and I don't dare face it because it's just too stupid and ugly. Also, when I make posts in this forum I have a strong need to sound as enlightened and developed as possible. This is pretty ridiculous, I guess "I" am used to being a smart fellow who should have everything taped. The truth is I don't have a *** clue about anything. Ask someone else if you want to know anything, because what flows from this mouth is pretty much ***. Sorry you had to read that - now back to this *** game of seeking. Your honesty is beautiful. Thanks for facing your fear in allowing us to look in the mirror, souley. I see nothing ugly or stupid in it; just a reflection. Your courage shines even though you perhaps haven't seen it yet.
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Post by souley on Mar 24, 2011 5:47:40 GMT -5
Your honesty is beautiful. Thanks for facing your fear in allowing us to look in the mirror, souley. I see nothing ugly or stupid in it; just a reflection. Your courage shines even though you perhaps haven't seen it yet. Hey thanks! I think this thread turned out to be pretty interesting
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Post by souley on Mar 24, 2011 5:52:05 GMT -5
Maybe you could start by purging the negativity. By this I mean showing remorse for all those you have wronged and understanding why you did what you did. Then you can forgive youself and turn that negativity into wisdom. Although the remorse won't purify you if you continue to do what you did, as it would have been false remorse. Maybe you misunderstood me, I haven't necessarily done anything "bad", there is just a fear of letting go, in case I would loose control and somehow become evil or unconscious. It doesn't make much sense and I can put forth a lot of arguments against it. But there it is. Maybe its some kind of defense mechanism. As Klaus said transcending that fear is probably the same as transcending the ego, the structure of me.
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Post by souley on Mar 24, 2011 5:55:42 GMT -5
I once worried a lot about letting go and what would I do? What's to stop me from hurting someone? Stealing, or worse? I pondered this for over a year when an answer popped into my head out of the blue - "why would I steal or do worse?" That is what would stop me from not hurting other people - the fact that I have no interest in doing so. There literally is no upside. Yeah there is absolutely no interest here on doing anything hurtful. I can clearly see the dysfunction that causes people to do things like that. There is no upside, only pain. An answer like yours is easy for me to produce, but the fear somehow remains anyway. It's not rational, it just a ball of fear at the core, constantly battling for survival. It can probably take any thought form it would like, but it settles for this "bad guy" stuff because thats whats rubs me the most.
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Post by souley on Mar 24, 2011 6:01:21 GMT -5
Confessions are about owning up responsibility, that’s not being honest, that’s being delusional. Edit: a comment in passing, not meant as criticism (the good guy thing, you see...) hehe, I think I'll follow SomeNOTHING down the cliff. Yeah you do have a point.. but by posting it here I have kind of given up the control a bit. If I admittedly can't figure it out, thats pretty honest I think. I'm not going like "Please god I have been bad, forgive me so I can go on being the good and happy me again". It is more like "OK there is this dysfunction and I cant do anything about it". Oh well not really sure I understood, no hard feelings tho:)
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jazz
Full Member
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Post by jazz on Mar 24, 2011 6:40:52 GMT -5
"by this I mean showing remorse for all those you have wronged and understanding why you did what you did." This sounds like 12 step work, which is fitting, since we're in a self-addicted anonymous group I've been through the steps and man, are they powerful tools for self understanding and insight. Also the showing remorse (basically saying "I'm sorry" and asking forgiveness) of people you have wronged is very powerful. There's a cleansing, whatever, of the negative energy that ties you together. So to speak. The 12 steps are definetely what led me right here, right now. Nice thread.
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andy
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Post by andy on Mar 24, 2011 8:35:51 GMT -5
Hi Souley, Letting go doesn't happen overnight. It's a gradual process and so it gives you time to see that it benefits your life and in doing so you'll gain more and more trust in the universe. I'd say instead of looking at (and worrying about) the big picture, just focus on one particular aspect of your life where you feel you need to be in control - work, a particular relationship etc. (you'll have to choose that bit for yourself) and give it your complete attention. Why do you need to be in control of that particular situation? What behaviour patterns keep running when the idea of losing control appears in that situation? What would happen if you let go just in that particular situation? Focusing on one aspect alone and chasing it to its source should hopefully open a door for you and you'll see what was causing you to feel the need to keep in control of that aspect of your life. And then you can move on to other aspect of your life. Just do it one by one. People are driven to terrible acts of violence because they cannot cope with the complexities of the situations they find themselves in. They think they have to behave in a particular way because of their upbringing but then that conflicts with a certain situation and they feel they have no way out. Then that in turn is compounded by the fact that they feel they should be in control but aren't. And then the whole thing explodes... I'm not saying there won't be pain and heartache as you face your demons but once the unravelling process begins you'll see the irrational behaviour patterns fall away and life literally becomes simpler. You'll also see that it was those layers themselves that are the cause of irrational (or violent) behaviour, not the lack of control. And finally you'll see that you never were in control anyway and it was all just a drama. One other thing. Don't worry about trying to appear smart or enlightened or anything other than what you are, here or anywhere for that matter. Just say what comes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2011 8:37:00 GMT -5
Confessions are about owning up responsibility, that’s not being honest, that’s being delusional. Edit: a comment in passing, not meant as criticism (the good guy thing, you see...) hehe, I think I'll follow SomeNOTHING down the cliff. on responsibility, I like Melvyn Wartella's take: "Life responds. Everything in the Universe is constantly responding to its own movement. It is happening on levels that we will rarely if ever be conscious of. We are responding to millions of years of evolution. We are responding to subtle changes on distant stars and planets. We are responding to the thoughts of others, both living and those from the past and even from those we think of as the future. Responsibility is our natural condition: respond to life. The ability to respond is responsibility. It needs no actor to take place.
"Awaken and be responsible. Not as a dreamer feeling they are responsible and then feeling guilty if they fail, but as wisdom in action, responding to our day-to-day reality." www.friendsofreality.org/friendsofreality.org_index.html/ADVAITACONCEPTSANDRESPONSIBILITY.htmli'm just guessing, but it seems like the possibility of not being response-able diminishes as one decreases abidance in mind. there was a great Argentinian movie a while back called the Man Facing Southeast. the title character is a human looking alien who communes with his homeplanet by regularly facing in it's direction. he lacks abidance in mind as we know it and responds to circumstances without inhibition. one beautiful scene i recall is that he steps up and takes the conductor's wand during an outdoor concert of Beethoven's Ninth -- he wants to have a shot at conducting some sublime music! not surprisingly he spends a good amount of time in a psychiatric hospital. but the reason i bring this up is because of a scene where he encounters someone on a coldish night who is underdressed and a bit chilly. so he gives this stranger his coat. that's an enlightened response that most of us would walk by (no ability to respond due to conditioning/abidance in mind).
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Post by therealfake on Mar 24, 2011 10:11:04 GMT -5
Fear, Control, Guilt, Forgiveness and responsibility are all mis-perceivings, resulting from the original idea, hidden away in your psyche of 'separation'.
Without the underlying falsity of a separate person from the what is, shines this now moment, which is your true being.
As I sit here typing, I pause to look around...
I'm looking for fear, but I don't see it, it arises like everything else in the world arises, but for now, I don't see it...
If a fear thought arises, let it rise, let it come into your presence, sit with it, feel it, explore it. It is a temporary manifestation that has found it's way into the now moment and like all objects of awareness will change and dissipate back to the nothingness which it came from.
Resolve the falsity of a separate self first and foremost.
The rest of your seeming pain and suffering will slowly wilt away as the attention no longer finds identification there.
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Post by enigma on Mar 24, 2011 10:21:27 GMT -5
Confessions are about owning up responsibility, that’s not being honest, that’s being delusional. Edit: a comment in passing, not meant as criticism (the good guy thing, you see...) hehe, I think I'll follow SomeNOTHING down the cliff. Yeah you do have a point.. but by posting it here I have kind of given up the control a bit. If I admittedly can't figure it out, thats pretty honest I think. I'm not going like "Please god I have been bad, forgive me so I can go on being the good and happy me again". It is more like "OK there is this dysfunction and I cant do anything about it". Oh well not really sure I understood, no hard feelings tho:) Have you considered the possibility that the fear of doing something horrible is an unconscious justification for holding onto the 'me' controller? It's a noble explanation, which makes it somewhat untouchable, and the idea that you can't figure it out is sliding the bolt in the door so that you're safe.
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