Witness question

[peanut]

Hi...the Witness is present..the question is..how to go beyond?

[enigma]

What is it that knows the witness is present?

[peanut]

Awareness

[enigma]

You must be that which knows the witness is present, eh?
Where do you need to go now?
Could it be that simple?

[peanut]

Enigma...thank you so much for your help.. This awareness has been present for over a year. i just read in I Am That: "Awareness is unattached and unshaken. It is lucid,silent,peaceful, alert and unafraid, without desire and fear. Meditate on it as your true being and try to be in it in your daily life, and you shall realize it in its fullness.
Mind is interested in what happens, while awareness is interested in the mind itself. The child is after the toy, but the mother watches the child, not the toy.
By looking tirelessly, I became quite empty and with that emptiness all came back to me except the mind. I find I have lost the mind irretrievably."

How do you feel about these instructions in relation to my initial question? You asked the question could it be that simple? Hhhhmmmnnn It appears that remembering needs to happen and more inquiry??

robin

[zendancer]

Peanut: The awareness has been present for much more than only the last year. It has been present your entire life. It has watched everything that has happened, including all thoughts generated by the mind, all feelings, and all dreams. Nisargadatta is saying that THAT is your true being, and his recommendation is to abide in that until all distractions and obscurations cease. THAT, alone, is.

[enigma]

Zakly as Zen says. There is no remembering involved since nothing was forgotten. It's not information that you're looking for but rather the looker itself. How can that which is looking be hidden in any way? How can it be found and by what? Nothing you can perceive or think can be what you are because you are aware of the perception or thought, and so you must be prior to that. To look for that which is perceiving must fail in the same way that the one looking through a telescope will never find the one looking. The looker is far too close to see.

Mind would turn this into a journey, but how can it be difficult or time consuming or require anything at all? What is aware that awareness cannot be found? Is this awareness or not? Mind will pack your bags and book you on a world tour because that's what is of interest, but what was never lost or forgotten simply cannot be found or remembered.

[divinity]

Do you think it is important at which time we become conscious of awareness? For some it is in childhood, others may croak without that conscious awareness of being present. Does it matter whether we become conscious of the fact that awareness is us, or not?

[peanut]

Hi Divinity..yes it matters that we become conscious of the fact that awareness is us...doesn't matter when...just that it occurs..

Zendancer..you answered my initial question with your interpretation of Nisargadatta's quote. Thank you. Get that awareness has always been present and doesn't need remembering. What i was going towards with the remembering thing was abiding but didn't know it. What is needed is to abide(great word) until all distractions and obscurations cease.

Sooooo.....any input on this abiding? And a word about the distractions and obscurations? Your experiences?
My meditation group and teachers disbanded so am grateful for your guidance....
robin

[enigma]

Sure, abiding sounds like a fun thing to do. Hehe.
Possibly, an equally valuable practice would be to try to not be present as that which is aware of everything before you. IOW, try to 'abide' as one of the objects of which you are aware (such as mind or body) without noticing that you are still aware of it. I'd be interested in your experience of which of the two practices is more difficult.

[zendancer]

Peanut: Yes, I thought you meant abiding rather than remembering, but wasn't certain. As for a good pointer about abiding, simply watch some young children at play. They are always here and now abiding in presence. They do not live in their heads. Whether they are watching a column of ants march through the grass, watching clouds change shape, or listening to crickets, they interact with reality directly through their senses. No worries, no self-image problems, no expectations, no carrying of grudges, and no big abstractions to snatch their attention away from "what is." Young children are innocent, curious, and full of joy. If you begin to spend more time doing what they do, the adult world of consensual reality, created by imagination, will gradually evaporate, and you will re-discover the world in which young children live. Happiness, joy, and love are your true nature. Simply become as a little child. The intellect will not disappear. It will always be available for solving problems, but it will be like a computer resting in the sleep mode until it is needed.

When I was a child, I used to carve roadways into banks of dirt and move toy trucks along those roads. I walked through woods and creeks looking at everything. I hunted for four-leaf clovers, chased lightning bugs, lay in the grass looking at clouds, and sat in a wheelbarrow looking at stars in the nighttime sky.

Then, I quit paying attention to that world and entered the world of the mind. I learned to imagine myself as separate and compared myself to others. I became competitive, tried to be special, became consumed with existential questions, lived life through my imagination, and talked to myself incessantly. After the thinking ran totally amok, I realized that I had no peace of mind. I was on a treadmill working around the clock to make money and feeling more and more angst, alienation, and meaningless. This is what happens when the mind becomes totally dominant. We become psychologically separated from "what is"--our true home.

In order to return home we have to reverse the process that separated us. We have to start doing what little children do--looking, listening, tasting, smelling, feeling. As soon as we realize that old thought patterns have captured our attention, we gently bring it back to what we can see and hear. We do this again and again. When we recognize that a fantasy has begun, we instantly end it by shifting to what we can see or hear. When we realize that we are lost in old memory patterns, we return to what we can see or hear. We can also use breath awareness, tai chi, shikan taza, walking in the woods, and a thousand other activities to help us attend to "what is" in the present moment. Gradually we re-enter the world we left behind and find that nothing has changed in that world. The illusions fall away, and we discover our True Self shining through all space and time.

Today I worked with big machines and several men installing a foundation for a new home. The raw earth has a smell that is totally unique. The work was demanding but incredibly fun. I had to do lots of calculations (involving square roots and tangents) while laying out the lines of excavation and using a transit to step the footings down the hill in vertical increments. Time and again, during spaces when I was waiting for other things to happen, I was captivated by the fantastic cloud formations billowing above me in the sky. I was filled with gratitude for all the hard work the men were doing. Everyone was giving their best to produce the finest product possible. The smell of wood smoke wafted through the building site from large fires burning up the cleared debris. The smell of diesel fuel was pungent, and the roar of the concrete saws cutting through steel rebar in a shower of sparks punctuated our conversations. The owners of the project showed up, and I shut down all of the machinery so that I could show them where their dining nook would be located--seven feet above our heads--with a 180 degree panorama of glass looking out over beautiful fields with mountains in the distance. I described what they would see from their dinette table when the home is complete and I pictured the views in my mind. Driving back to the office through the countryside this afternoon the clouds once again became the focus of my attention, and I watched them for ten miles while feeling the air rushing through the windows of the car and smelling the farm smells of cattle manure and new-mown hay along the roadside. Each moment was complete in itself and effulgent.

Tomorrow morning we will start pouring concrete at 11:30. It will be a physically demanding day, but in essence only a slightly more complex form of play than carving roadways in a dirt bank at the age of four. Tomorrow night I will go to a distant city for abdominal surgery (to repair an incisional hernia caused by an operation two years ago), and that will be fascinating too. Awareness will alertly watch everything that happens, in amusement and presence, unconcerned and content. If the body/mind should not wake up afterwards (a very rare possibility), I will still be here posting on the board. If that happens, I suggest the following koan, "Under what name is Zendancer posting now?" LOL (hint--there is a simple concrete answer to this question).

So much for input on abiding. The distractions and obscurations are the unnecessary but habitual thoughts that carry us away from presence or blind us to what is always here and now. Cheers.

[frankshank]

I hope everything goes well with the operation Bob!!

[zendancer]

Frank/Andy: Thanks. I had a mountain-climbing trip to Colorado scheduled for August and didn't want to take a chance on having this little sucker incapacitate me while scaling some crag ten miles from nowhere. My wife would never forgive me if I croaked in the mountains and left her to run the businesses by herself. LOL.

[Portto]

Nice stories, Zendancer!
I wish you good health.
Zendancer's point of view sure is interesting and we need it on the forum (and everywhere).

[peanut]

Thank you again Zendancer and sending get well wishes! Of course one more question ;-) So abide until the mind is lost by practicing moment to moment awareness as you described? You said gradually we re-enter the world... illusions fall away. Our True self will shine through. Is this the result of moment to moment awareness?and its a gradual process? Perhaps i am making this more complicated than it is!

Enigma...not sure i understand your suggestions...not being present means i am lost in identification with the body and or mind...help!