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Post by divinity on May 27, 2010 10:31:20 GMT -5
But WHY does it matter that we become conscious that we are awareness? Does a leaf or a dog have that conscious awareness, or it it merely being awareness? To whom does it matter?
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Post by zendancer on May 27, 2010 13:32:54 GMT -5
Thank you again Zendancer and sending get well wishes! Of course one more question ;-) So abide until the mind is lost by practicing moment to moment awareness as you described? You said gradually we re-enter the world... illusions fall away. Our True self will shine through. Is this the result of moment to moment awareness?and its a gradual process? Perhaps i am making this more complicated than it is! Enigma...not sure i understand your suggestions...not being present means i am lost in identification with the body and or mind...help! Peanut: For some people a lot happens at once; for other people there are numerous mini-breathroughs and insights. There really is no end to the discovery process, but there is a point at which one fully recognizes who one is. There are many times when thinking is necessary, but to break the habit of incessant thought requires spending a substantial amount of time attending to what is real. Usually, the more time we spend in presence the faster we learn to distinguish between thoughts and reality. Cheers. |
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Post by alpha on May 27, 2010 14:59:51 GMT -5
Nice stories, Zendancer! I wish you good health. Zendancer's point of view sure is interesting and we need it on the forum (and everywhere). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- may I also add good wishes ZD, there's peace passing through this body/mind these times, some of it from taking ZD,s advice to heart, and others on this forum too, Many Thanks to all... |
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Post by peanut on May 27, 2010 18:36:43 GMT -5
Zendancer...well...what to say besides thank you? You are right ..i have had mini breakthroughs and insights. So seems gradual. Not sure how to say this , but feel the need or desire, that is out of my hands, to spend time in presence as you say to realize who/what i am or am not!....
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Post by peanut on May 27, 2010 18:49:46 GMT -5
Divinity..a dog or a leaf can't think....it would be much simpler if i was a leaf!!! They just are and maybe that is what you are pointing to?..just being? i have always,since a child, wanted to know why i am here and what am i. About 9 years ago i set out in earnest to find out and here i am...able to be in the Watcher but knowing that is not the end. Hence my initial question. Gradually realizing i am not the body/mind etc. i don't know why really...something feels it matters. Don't know to whom. You are killing me with these questions!
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Post by cabinintheforest on May 27, 2010 19:57:28 GMT -5
peanut you are wrong, a dog and a leaf (plant) can think, they are sentient. Everything has and is consciouness.
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Post by enigma on May 27, 2010 23:48:23 GMT -5
Enigma...not sure i understand your suggestions...not being present means i am lost in identification with the body and or mind...help! But when that happens aren't you still present and aware that it's happening? If you aren't, who's aware of being lost in identification? Can you be absent? If you could truly be lost in identification, there would be no way to know this is happening, but instead, there you are, watching identification happening, being fully present for it. |
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Post by enigma on May 28, 2010 0:21:37 GMT -5
But WHY does it matter that we become conscious that we are awareness? Does a leaf or a dog have that conscious awareness, or it it merely being awareness? To whom does it matter? Simple creatures don't have the capacity for self awareness in the biological sense. That is, they can't project the sense of 'me' into future and so they don't suffer, since this is how suffering comes about. We could call this innocence and is the same innocence we find in a newborn. Once the concept of 'me' has formed, innocence is lost, and cannot be recovered, so the ignorance (false knowledge) must be transcended. The point is not that there is no person to whom it matters. Suffering happens and it matters, does it not? |
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Post by Portto on May 28, 2010 8:53:44 GMT -5
Once the concept of 'me' has formed, innocence is lost, and cannot be recovered, so the ignorance (false knowledge) must be transcended. I have seen many old people who recovered their child-like innocence. It seems that ego diminishes naturally with age, for various reasons. Nevertheless, transcending the concept of "me" while it's alive and kicking has its perks and its place. Some people simply can't wait for old age to do that. And it's not that they have a choice. Peace is needed much sooner. |
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Post by peanut on May 28, 2010 18:49:09 GMT -5
Enigma...yes i agree with you about the suffering...very clear answer...yes it matters.. and it seems that if one is awake then one can help others to not suffer...until then it is the blind leading the blind. So yes the concept of "me" must be transcended.
As far as the identification..i never looked at it that way. Very helpful. A shift seems to have occurred because even just few weeks ago i wouldn't have understood you. It is still so new to be so present. Do you know what i mean?
Porto...right now feel that there is no choice..feel like this must happen..one of those who simply can't wait.
i can't thank all of you enough for taking the time to answer and challenge me...this means more than words can say...
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Post by enigma on May 28, 2010 23:27:19 GMT -5
There seems to be a shift (a gradual one in most cases, I think) from viewing from the perspective of the 'me' to the perspective of awareness, or whatever. Even if it is conceptual, this can still clarify much confusion and allow a lot of questions to fall away. It can easily become clear that, if I am aware of it, I must be prior to it, and so it's just stuff that is happening and isn't really 'me happening'. I never actually 'happen' since all happenings must appear to me.
If I'm aware that there is a body, i can't actually be the body. If I'm aware of thoughts, I can't be the thoughts. Nothing I can be aware of can be what I am, since it's 'in front' of me and I'm 'behind it' being aware of it. Conversely, I cannot perceive what I am as an 'object' of my awareness because this object must, again, be in front of me. Hencely, there is nothing to know ABOUT what I am, which simplifies things greatly.
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Post by peanut on May 29, 2010 20:11:26 GMT -5
Enigma...phew...you sure said what is going on with clarity..thank you i mean wow...i get it..well not me hahaha...obviously there was complicating when that was not needed!!!!!! So all through the day that is what is occurring ... realizing i am not the body or thoughts etc....very strange but freeing :-) However..i still go back to my original question...there is awareness watching and  |
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Post by enigma on May 30, 2010 0:28:45 GMT -5
Enigma...phew...you sure said what is going on with clarity..thank you i mean wow...i get it..well not me hahaha...obviously there was complicating when that was not needed!!!!!! So all through the day that is what is occurring ... realizing i am not the body or thoughts etc....very strange but freeing :-) However..i still go back to my original question...there is awareness watching and And what? Hehe. Looking for the obvious can set up some strange scenarios. Perhaps there should be fireworks or trumpets blaring or sumthin? Peace is found in the absolute ordinariness of what has obviously always been the case. Maybe it's helpful to mention that what you seek is a total collapse of the whole structure of 'what next'. The purpose of seeking is not to find, but merely to end the seeking. The entire universe will collapse at your feet and you will know where God has always been. Robin, I want to mention that almost always, I'm chatting with folks who don't have the willingness to look, and it's a joy and a treat to talk to you. What is moving within you now moves with such grace and beauty that I find myself deeply grateful. |
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Post by Portto on May 30, 2010 9:18:09 GMT -5
However..i still go back to my original question...there is awareness watching and I know what you mean. We are awareness, so what now? It's not "satisfying." And it's not "satisfying" because 'awareness' is a word. We are not that word. |
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Post by divinity on May 30, 2010 10:50:42 GMT -5
Enigma... I see you have never met my dog!
I agree with cabin about sentient beings... human awareness and thinking keep them in a state of duality.
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