|
|
Post by zendancer on May 30, 2010 17:39:09 GMT -5
However..i still go back to my original question...there is awareness watching and  I know what you mean. We are awareness, so what now? It's not "satisfying." And it's not "satisfying" because 'awareness' is a word. We are not that word. Porto: It can't be satisfying as long as the mind keeps checking on it--"Am I satisfied? Peaceful? Content?" Selfhood is a very deep mental structure, and it is the last thing to leave the show. LOL. Can you imagine a young child playing in some mud and suddenly stopping and thinking, "Am I happy?" No, because the child hasn't yet developed the habit of checking on its state of happiness or satisfaction. It is naturally happy because it hasn't yet shifted from body knowledge to head knowledge. Many people on this path attain a very deep intellectual understanding that nonduality is the fundamental condition of existence, but as long as any vestige of selfhood, as a mental construct, remains, the peace that is desired cannot manifest. On another subject, when I get a chance, I'll have to share the story of my hospital experience this weekend. At this point, all I want to say between laughs is that when a doctor prescribes Percocet or Oxycodone for pain management, even if you don't think you'll need it, you ought to fill the prescription.......just in case! LOL. I learned another heck of a lesson the hard way this weekend. |
|
|
|
Post by peanut on May 30, 2010 19:50:11 GMT -5
Zendancer..excactly, what i don't want is an intellectual understanding, but rather ,direct experience please! Also hope you are pain free :-) and healing! Enigma...thank you for your kind compliment.... This chat is so helpful. You said.." What you seek is a total collapse of the whole structure of 'what next' The purpose of seeking is not to find but merely to end the seeking. Your entire universe will collapse at your feet and you will know where God has always been".... or as Zendancer says the mental construct of selfhood has to go. How? ?? Are we back to continual abiding? PS..i apologize that i have not figured out how to do the whole quote thing yet. with gratitude..robin |
|
|
|
Post by Portto on May 30, 2010 22:03:13 GMT -5
I learned another heck of a lesson the hard way this weekend. Thank you for your words, Zendancer. I hope your full recovery is quick. I guess the body must get what it needs, be that food or painkillers. So, it seems you experienced first-hand [again] several koans. For example, the one with the zenmaster who screamed so hard that it was heard several villages away. |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on May 30, 2010 23:40:21 GMT -5
I'm not really so hot on abiding cause it's not really something you can do, it's more of a realization of what you are. IOW, abiding is more of a noun than a verb.
Self inquiry is an ongoing process and it's not so much about looking forward (asking 'what am I') but looking back (What am I not). The latter involves the mind and it's misconceptions and is therefore doable. The former does not and is not. I know it's nondual sacrilege but that's been my experience.
|
|
|
|
Post by peanut on May 31, 2010 15:08:11 GMT -5
Enigma...Ohhhh...do i understand correctly then..keep looking..inquiring into what i am not. What i meant with the abiding was using that awareness to keep looking and realizing what i am not. So guess i don't have correct definition of abiding. The inquiry still needs to keep happening. Seems like it needs to be balanced with letting go. Does that sound right? Can you speak any more on your experience? Also getting that there comes a point when reading, listening to others etc must be dropped.
|
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jun 1, 2010 2:01:13 GMT -5
Well, maybe i have a limited understanding of the use of the term 'abiding'. Seems to me it's typically used in the phrase 'abiding nondual awareness' which means a permanent Self realization rather than one that comes only during meditation or whatever. As such, it's not a doing since it's the absence of the doer.
Obviously, there are many approaches. Mine has involved an insatiable curiosity about how things work. Questions can lead to answers of a sort, which lead to more questions. The answers are intuitive realizations that either expand the context or dissolve the question all together. It's necessary to not assume anything.
If you see that you cannot be anything you perceive, you must be some sort of intelligence or consciousness doohickey, right? Could it be in the body? Like the result of brain activity or sumthin?
|
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jun 1, 2010 10:42:56 GMT -5
Peanut: I'm in the same boat as E. I use the term "abiding" to point to the cessation of doing anything. It is a restful beingness wherein pure awareness is dominant. One allows everything to be as it is without thinking anything should be different.
Up until the illusion of selfhood was penetrated, what I now call "abiding" was more like meditation. There was a "me" making an effort to see, hear, feel, etc. without words or thoughts. "I" was trying to stay in a state of oneness without intellectual reflection. After the illusion of selfhood collapsed, abiding was then recognized as a natural state of being, and not something that could be practiced by an imaginary "someone."
Also like E, I was always intensely curious about existence. In my case, the questions that consumed me generally vanished when I saw that they were based upon incorrect assumptions. The final obstacle to peace was the question, "How can I stay in a unity-conscious state of mind permanently?" This obstacle collapsed when I realized that the one who wanted to stay in such a state of mind did not exist and had never existed. Only then was there a recognition that what I am is the entire process of "what is" whatever that is. LOL.
Although it is helpful to realize that pure awareness is our true nature (because it is seen to be infinite and unchangeable), I do not usually give this distinction too much attention or importance. Rather, I tend to regard all phenomena, as well as that which sees all phenomena, as a unified whole. IOW, I don;t have much interest in psychologically separating the see-er from what is seen even if what is seen is nothing more than a light show. I prefer to stay not-knowingly lost in the isness of whatever is happening here and now. I don;t know if this makes any sense, but from a practical standpoint it means that life becomes endlessly fascinating, strangely intimate, yet gloriously empty.
|
|
|
|
Post by peanut on Jun 1, 2010 14:46:22 GMT -5
Zendancer...welll....yes abiding... am definitely resting and being...knowing that is awareness is natural so while the language wasn't clear it appears that more of a shift has happened than formally recognized. It is definitely not a meditation although that it is where it began. But permanent? Not yet. Can there be an inbetween stage? What you wrote touched me deeply. You are making total sense so that must mean something haha. Staying in the moment with moment to moment awareness. Deeply realizing emptiness.
Enigma...yes have been curious (since childhood) and questioning and then refining and moving on from results. This is continuing thanks to you and Zendancer. Finally feel like got pointed in right direction or maybe acknowledged that on right path. The initial question maybe wan't clear but gratefully you sorted it out :-)
robin
|
|
|
|
Post by klaus on Jun 1, 2010 16:42:29 GMT -5
The witness does not do anything, including witness. It is what you are prior to differentiation and it is all that arises in consciousness.
Any awareness of awareness is still of the body/mind-egoic witness.
|
|
|
|
Post by peanut on Jun 1, 2010 19:02:26 GMT -5
klaus...can you explain your second sentence a little more? Are you saying awareness just "is"? One can't be aware of awareness right?
Thanks for your input.
|
|
|
|
Post by klaus on Jun 2, 2010 8:07:26 GMT -5
peanut,
Yes, awareness "is."
Any awareness of awareness implies there's someone that is aware.
|
|
|
|
Post by Portto on Jun 2, 2010 9:13:01 GMT -5
Can you imagine a young child playing in some mud and suddenly stopping and thinking, "Am I happy?" No, because the child hasn't yet developed the habit of checking on its state of happiness or satisfaction. It is naturally happy because it hasn't yet shifted from body knowledge to head knowledge. That's so funny. A working mind that has discovered individuality and separation is the foundation of unhapiness, and the engine of the search for "something missing." |
|
|
|
Post by divinity on Jun 2, 2010 11:33:48 GMT -5
Are any of us "aware" as we read and type on this message board?
|
|
|
|
Post by peanut on Jun 2, 2010 19:06:58 GMT -5
divinity...aren't we just using our intellect when typing and reading?
|
|
