All problem is caused by the Chasing.

[zendancer]

Aug 10, 2024 2:26:54 GMT -5 Gopal said:

Life flows smoothly without our conscious effort. Then, one day, we begin to crave external things and emotional states, and that’s when chaos starts to infiltrate our lives. Unfortunately, we lack the power to halt this pursuit we’ve initiated. As life progresses, this chase takes on various forms until one day we realize that all the turmoil in our lives stems from chasing anything other than the present moment

I totally agree, but "the All That Is" is what determines whether one chases anything. As Enigma used to say, "God (in the form of a human) falls into his own dream, and imagines separateness." The "All That Is" is what prompts one to meditate or not to meditate, chase or not to chase, imagine one thing or another, and it is "the All That Is" that can wake up from the dream of separateness and realize that there is nothing to chase. As Zen Masters like to say, "Your everyday life is the Way," and that is true regardless of what someone does. Realizing that chasing is a fundamental problem is a major realization. However, the most mind-boggling realization involves apprehending the "All That Is" directly." That totally puts the mind to rest, and one discovers that what one IS IS the "All That Is" in the form of being human and having a human perspective.

"All That Is" looks out of the eyes of every creature, and if Federico Fellini is correct, the intelligence of "All That Is" permeates all of reality, including the subatomic realm.

All that we can say about waking up from the dream of separateness is that silence and meditative activities are highly correlated with existential realizations.

[Gopal]

Aug 10, 2024 8:54:50 GMT -5 zendancer said:

Aug 10, 2024 2:26:54 GMT -5 Gopal said:

Life flows smoothly without our conscious effort. Then, one day, we begin to crave external things and emotional states, and that’s when chaos starts to infiltrate our lives. Unfortunately, we lack the power to halt this pursuit we’ve initiated. As life progresses, this chase takes on various forms until one day we realize that all the turmoil in our lives stems from chasing anything other than the present moment

I totally agree, but "the All That Is" is what determines whether one chases anything. As Enigma used to say, "God (in the form of a human) falls into his own dream, and imagines separateness." The "All That Is" is what prompts one to meditate or not to meditate, chase or not to chase, imagine one thing or another, and it is "the All That Is" that can wake up from the dream of separateness and realize that there is nothing to chase. As Zen Masters like to say, "Your everyday life is the Way," and that is true regardless of what someone does. Realizing that chasing is a fundamental problem is a major realization. However, the most mind-boggling realization involves apprehending the "All That Is" directly." That totally puts the mind to rest, and one discovers that what one IS IS the "All That Is" in the form of being human and having a human perspective.

"All That Is" looks out of the eyes of every creature, and if Federico Fellini is correct, the intelligence of "All That Is" permeates all of reality, including the subatomic realm.

All that we can say about waking up from the dream of separateness is that silence and meditative activities are highly correlated with existential realizations.

Look at the bolder line. How did you do that? 

And also, realizing the problem of chasing is not enough? 

[andrew]

Aug 10, 2024 2:26:54 GMT -5 Gopal said:

Life flows smoothly without our conscious effort. Then, one day, we begin to crave external things and emotional states, and that’s when chaos starts to infiltrate our lives. Unfortunately, we lack the power to halt this pursuit we’ve initiated. As life progresses, this chase takes on various forms until one day we realize that all the turmoil in our lives stems from chasing anything other than the present moment

Agree, though 2 year olds are massive chasers of external things, even babies chase for material and emotional comfort, so ''one day'' is very early in our lives.

[zendancer]

Aug 10, 2024 9:14:22 GMT -5 Gopal said:

Aug 10, 2024 8:54:50 GMT -5 zendancer said:

I totally agree, but "the All That Is" is what determines whether one chases anything. As Enigma used to say, "God (in the form of a human) falls into his own dream, and imagines separateness." The "All That Is" is what prompts one to meditate or not to meditate, chase or not to chase, imagine one thing or another, and it is "the All That Is" that can wake up from the dream of separateness and realize that there is nothing to chase. As Zen Masters like to say, "Your everyday life is the Way," and that is true regardless of what someone does. Realizing that chasing is a fundamental problem is a major realization. However, the most mind-boggling realization involves apprehending the "All That Is" directly." That totally puts the mind to rest, and one discovers that what one IS IS the "All That Is" in the form of being human and having a human perspective.

"All That Is" looks out of the eyes of every creature, and if Federico Fellini is correct, the intelligence of "All That Is" permeates all of reality, including the subatomic realm.

All that we can say about waking up from the dream of separateness is that silence and meditative activities are highly correlated with existential realizations.

Look at the bolder line. How did you do that? 

And also, realizing the problem of chasing is not enough? 

Who I thought I was never did anything. "All That Is" is the only doer. Somehow "All That Is" can apprehend Itself in a direct and undivided state. It cannot be known how that happens.

Realizing the problem of chasing is an important realization, and for many people that, alone, ends the search. When Papaji told Gangaji to stop, "All That Is" in the form of the woman we call "Gangaji" heard that and stopped chasing enlightenment. She, herself, has said that how that happened was a total mystery. It was only after she stopped the search that she had a CC and other realizations.

[justlikeyou]

Aug 10, 2024 8:54:50 GMT -5 zendancer said:

Aug 10, 2024 2:26:54 GMT -5 Gopal said:

Life flows smoothly without our conscious effort. Then, one day, we begin to crave external things and emotional states, and that’s when chaos starts to infiltrate our lives. Unfortunately, we lack the power to halt this pursuit we’ve initiated. As life progresses, this chase takes on various forms until one day we realize that all the turmoil in our lives stems from chasing anything other than the present moment

I totally agree, but "the All That Is" is what determines whether one chases anything. As Enigma used to say, "God (in the form of a human) falls into his own dream, and imagines separateness." The "All That Is" is what prompts one to meditate or not to meditate, chase or not to chase, imagine one thing or another, and it is "the All That Is" that can wake up from the dream of separateness and realize that there is nothing to chase. As Zen Masters like to say, "Your everyday life is the Way," and that is true regardless of what someone does. Realizing that chasing is a fundamental problem is a major realization. However, the most mind-boggling realization involves apprehending the "All That Is" directly." That totally puts the mind to rest, and one discovers that what one IS IS the "All That Is" in the form of being human and having a human perspective.

"All That Is" looks out of the eyes of every creature, and if Federico Fellini is correct, the intelligence of "All That Is" permeates all of reality, including the subatomic realm.

All that we can say about waking up from the dream of separateness is that silence and meditative activities are highly correlated with existential realizations.

Reading this I had a little realization about fish and the ocean. I asked AI to write an essay about it. lol


Memory updated
Here’s a straightforward essay that draws on the metaphor of an ocean fish to illustrate non-dual understanding:

The Ocean Fish: A Metaphor for Non-Dual Oneness

When we look at an ocean fish, it seems to be a distinct, separate entity swimming through the vast waters. We see it as a creature of its own, with a life, purpose, and identity, seemingly apart from the ocean it inhabits. Yet, when we delve deeper into the nature of this fish, we find that it is composed of 70-80% water—the very substance of the ocean itself.

This composition of the fish is a powerful metaphor for the non-dual understanding of oneness. In the same way that the fish is made up largely of the ocean’s water, each of us is fundamentally connected to the greater whole of existence. We perceive ourselves as separate beings, individual and distinct from the world around us, but at our core, we are of the same essence as the universe.

The fish’s temporary form, its material body, gives it the appearance of being separate from the ocean. It swims, eats, and lives as if it were an independent being. However, this separateness is an illusion created by its physical form. In reality, the fish is never apart from the ocean—it is a part of it, both materially and energetically.

When the fish dies, its body disintegrates, and the water that once gave it life returns to the ocean. The temporary separation ends, and the essence of the fish—the water—merges back with its source. The water was never truly separate; it was always part of the ocean, only inhabiting the form of the fish for a brief time.

In the same way, our perceived separateness from the world around us is a temporary illusion. We identify with our bodies, our minds, and our personal experiences, but these are just forms that give the illusion of individuality. When these forms dissolve, our essence—the consciousness or life force within us—returns to the source from which it came, revealing that we were never really separate from it to begin with, but merely experiencing a temporary illusion of separation through our physical forms.

Just as the fish is not truly separate from the ocean, we are not truly separate from the universe. The material form is a temporary vessel, and the essence within it is always connected to the whole. Non-dual understanding is the realization of this oneness, the recognition that the separateness we experience is just a fleeting appearance. In truth, we are always a part of the greater ocean of existence, and when the temporary form fades, we return to the source, just as the fish’s water returns to the ocean.

[zendancer]

Aug 10, 2024 20:51:23 GMT -5 justlikeyou said:

Aug 10, 2024 8:54:50 GMT -5 zendancer said:

I totally agree, but "the All That Is" is what determines whether one chases anything. As Enigma used to say, "God (in the form of a human) falls into his own dream, and imagines separateness." The "All That Is" is what prompts one to meditate or not to meditate, chase or not to chase, imagine one thing or another, and it is "the All That Is" that can wake up from the dream of separateness and realize that there is nothing to chase. As Zen Masters like to say, "Your everyday life is the Way," and that is true regardless of what someone does. Realizing that chasing is a fundamental problem is a major realization. However, the most mind-boggling realization involves apprehending the "All That Is" directly." That totally puts the mind to rest, and one discovers that what one IS IS the "All That Is" in the form of being human and having a human perspective.

"All That Is" looks out of the eyes of every creature, and if Federico Fellini is correct, the intelligence of "All That Is" permeates all of reality, including the subatomic realm.

All that we can say about waking up from the dream of separateness is that silence and meditative activities are highly correlated with existential realizations.

Reading this I had a little realization about fish and the ocean. I asked AI to write an essay about it. lol


Memory updated
Here’s a straightforward essay that draws on the metaphor of an ocean fish to illustrate non-dual understanding:

The Ocean Fish: A Metaphor for Non-Dual Oneness

When we look at an ocean fish, it seems to be a distinct, separate entity swimming through the vast waters. We see it as a creature of its own, with a life, purpose, and identity, seemingly apart from the ocean it inhabits. Yet, when we delve deeper into the nature of this fish, we find that it is composed of 70-80% water—the very substance of the ocean itself.

This composition of the fish is a powerful metaphor for the non-dual understanding of oneness. In the same way that the fish is made up largely of the ocean’s water, each of us is fundamentally connected to the greater whole of existence. We perceive ourselves as separate beings, individual and distinct from the world around us, but at our core, we are of the same essence as the universe.

The fish’s temporary form, its material body, gives it the appearance of being separate from the ocean. It swims, eats, and lives as if it were an independent being. However, this separateness is an illusion created by its physical form. In reality, the fish is never apart from the ocean—it is a part of it, both materially and energetically.

When the fish dies, its body disintegrates, and the water that once gave it life returns to the ocean. The temporary separation ends, and the essence of the fish—the water—merges back with its source. The water was never truly separate; it was always part of the ocean, only inhabiting the form of the fish for a brief time.

In the same way, our perceived separateness from the world around us is a temporary illusion. We identify with our bodies, our minds, and our personal experiences, but these are just forms that give the illusion of individuality. When these forms dissolve, our essence—the consciousness or life force within us—returns to the source from which it came, revealing that we were never really separate from it to begin with, but merely experiencing a temporary illusion of separation through our physical forms.

Just as the fish is not truly separate from the ocean, we are not truly separate from the universe. The material form is a temporary vessel, and the essence within it is always connected to the whole. Non-dual understanding is the realization of this oneness, the recognition that the separateness we experience is just a fleeting appearance. In truth, we are always a part of the greater ocean of existence, and when the temporary form fades, we return to the source, just as the fish’s water returns to the ocean.

An excellent example.

[inavalan]

Phrases Similar to Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder:

• One man's meat is another's poison.
  
• To each their own.

Amusing.

[stardustpilgrim]

Aug 10, 2024 8:54:50 GMT -5 zendancer said:

Aug 10, 2024 2:26:54 GMT -5 Gopal said:

Life flows smoothly without our conscious effort. Then, one day, we begin to crave external things and emotional states, and that’s when chaos starts to infiltrate our lives. Unfortunately, we lack the power to halt this pursuit we’ve initiated. As life progresses, this chase takes on various forms until one day we realize that all the turmoil in our lives stems from chasing anything other than the present moment

I totally agree, but "the All That Is" is what determines whether one chases anything. As Enigma used to say, "God (in the form of a human) falls into his own dream, and imagines separateness." The "All That Is" is what prompts one to meditate or not to meditate, chase or not to chase, imagine one thing or another, and it is "the All That Is" that can wake up from the dream of separateness and realize that there is nothing to chase. As Zen Masters like to say, "Your everyday life is the Way," and that is true regardless of what someone does. Realizing that chasing is a fundamental problem is a major realization. However, the most mind-boggling realization involves apprehending the "All That Is" directly." That totally puts the mind to rest, and one discovers that what one IS IS the "All That Is" in the form of being human and having a human perspective.

"All That Is" looks out of the eyes of every creature, and if Federico Fellini is correct, the intelligence of "All That Is" permeates all of reality, including the subatomic realm.

All that we can say about waking up from the dream of separateness is that silence and meditative activities are highly correlated with existential realizations.

Federico homosexualgin.

The bad word filter is back . Federico homosexual-gin. But that probably doesn't work either. F-a-g-g-i-n.

[melvin]

In Buddhism, desire and ignorance lie at the root of suffering. By desire, Buddhists refer to craving pleasure, material goods, and immortality, all of which are wants that can never be satisfied. As a result, desiring them can only bring suffering.

I am aware that if I become desireless, craving for something stops. Would that make my problems of existing stop? Yes, by not doing anything. That means I stop eating, drinking and breathing. By doing so, I will die. My body dies.

It is told those who are buried in cemeteries are the very ones who are devoid of problems. Those who continue to exist will always have problems. The chasing never stops. Why? Due to the desires.

Desire, chase, problem. You die, no chasing, no  problem. As long as I exist, chasing never ends.

[zendancer]

Aug 12, 2024 6:08:51 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

Aug 10, 2024 8:54:50 GMT -5 zendancer said:

I totally agree, but "the All That Is" is what determines whether one chases anything. As Enigma used to say, "God (in the form of a human) falls into his own dream, and imagines separateness." The "All That Is" is what prompts one to meditate or not to meditate, chase or not to chase, imagine one thing or another, and it is "the All That Is" that can wake up from the dream of separateness and realize that there is nothing to chase. As Zen Masters like to say, "Your everyday life is the Way," and that is true regardless of what someone does. Realizing that chasing is a fundamental problem is a major realization. However, the most mind-boggling realization involves apprehending the "All That Is" directly." That totally puts the mind to rest, and one discovers that what one IS IS the "All That Is" in the form of being human and having a human perspective.

"All That Is" looks out of the eyes of every creature, and if Federico Fellini is correct, the intelligence of "All That Is" permeates all of reality, including the subatomic realm.

All that we can say about waking up from the dream of separateness is that silence and meditative activities are highly correlated with existential realizations.

Federico homosexualgin.

The bad word filter is back . Federico homosexual-gin. But that probably doesn't work either. F-a-g-g-i-n.

Thanks. Must have ben a malfunctioning neuron!

[zendancer]

Aug 12, 2024 10:10:31 GMT -5 melvin said:

In Buddhism, desire and ignorance lie at the root of suffering. By desire, Buddhists refer to craving pleasure, material goods, and immortality, all of which are wants that can never be satisfied. As a result, desiring them can only bring suffering.

I am aware that if I become desireless, craving for something stops. Would that make my problems of existing stop? Yes, by not doing anything. That means I stop eating, drinking and breathing. By doing so, I will die. My body dies.

It is told those who are buried in cemeteries are the very ones who are devoid of problems. Those who continue to exist will always have problems. The chasing never stops. Why? Due to the desires.

Desire, chase, problem. You die, no chasing, no  problem. As long as I exist, chasing never ends.

One of the main points in Buddhism is that chasing can end.

[andrew]

Aug 12, 2024 10:10:31 GMT -5 melvin said:

In Buddhism, desire and ignorance lie at the root of suffering. By desire, Buddhists refer to craving pleasure, material goods, and immortality, all of which are wants that can never be satisfied. As a result, desiring them can only bring suffering.

I am aware that if I become desireless, craving for something stops. Would that make my problems of existing stop? Yes, by not doing anything. That means I stop eating, drinking and breathing. By doing so, I will die. My body dies.

It is told those who are buried in cemeteries are the very ones who are devoid of problems. Those who continue to exist will always have problems. The chasing never stops. Why? Due to the desires.

Desire, chase, problem. You die, no chasing, no  problem. As long as I exist, chasing never ends.

I see a valid point in here, one that has been discussed many times before.

The question is....what is the precise line between responding to, or following, a bodily impulse of 'hunger'......and what Gopal means by 'chasing'?

I think we could probably intellectually articulate a precise line, and that may be useful, but outside of concepts, I'm not sure it's a precise line, it's more a shades of grey situation. Whether it's eating food, going pee, making love, going for a walk, putting music on....these are all triggered by internal impulses that we respond to, or follow....but which we could also 'chase'.

Maybe the conceptual distinction here is 'follow' and 'chase'. Perhaps 'follow' is a healthy response, and 'chase' is driven more by emotional hurt/fear. Maybe 'follow' is a healthy ego response, and 'chase' is an unhealthy ego response. Maybe 'react' is an unhealthy response, and 'respond' is an intuitive response. Seems like there's always many ways to talk about things.

[melvin]

Aug 12, 2024 12:29:11 GMT -5 andrew said:

Aug 12, 2024 10:10:31 GMT -5 melvin said:

In Buddhism, desire and ignorance lie at the root of suffering. By desire, Buddhists refer to craving pleasure, material goods, and immortality, all of which are wants that can never be satisfied. As a result, desiring them can only bring suffering.

I am aware that if I become desireless, craving for something stops. Would that make my problems of existing stop? Yes, by not doing anything. That means I stop eating, drinking and breathing. By doing so, I will die. My body dies.

It is told those who are buried in cemeteries are the very ones who are devoid of problems. Those who continue to exist will always have problems. The chasing never stops. Why? Due to the desires.

Desire, chase, problem. You die, no chasing, no  problem. As long as I exist, chasing never ends.

I see a valid point in here, one that has been discussed many times before.

The question is....what is the precise line between responding to, or following, a bodily impulse of 'hunger'......and what Gopal means by 'chasing'?

I think we could probably intellectually articulate a precise line, and that may be useful, but outside of concepts, I'm not sure it's a precise line, it's more a shades of grey situation. Whether it's eating food, going pee, making love, going for a walk, putting music on....these are all triggered by internal impulses that we respond to, or follow....but which we could also 'chase'.

Maybe the conceptual distinction here is 'follow' and 'chase'. Perhaps 'follow' is a healthy response, and 'chase' is driven more by emotional hurt/fear. Maybe 'follow' is a healthy ego response, and 'chase' is an unhealthy ego response. Maybe 'react' is an unhealthy response, and 'respond' is an intuitive response. Seems like there's always many ways to talk about things.

It reminds me of Vamana, the dwarf incarnation of Visnu, who desired to own a piece of land from Bali's kingdom for only 3 steps. Bali laughed. But ultimately granted the dwarf his wish.

When Vamana made his first step, it covered Bali's entire kingdom. Bali was shocked.

The dwarf made his second step, it covered the whole world and the entire universe. When Bali saw this, he immediately knew it was Vishnu himself disguised as the dwarf Vamana.

Humbled, Bali asked the dwarf Vamana why not place his third step on former's head instead.

The moral lesson of this story teaches us not to be proud of our possessions. That these acquisitions are not really ours but from the Absolute Truth, and not to understimate one whom we feel is inferior to us.

We all have desires, it is a fact. Chasing them may put us into some unfavorable situations. But not all. Some outcomes may not be that but this. Mukti, perhaps?

[stardustpilgrim]

Aug 12, 2024 11:43:00 GMT -5 zendancer said:

Aug 12, 2024 6:08:51 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

Federico homosexualgin.

The bad word filter is back . Federico homosexual-gin. But that probably doesn't work either. F-a-g-g-i-n.

Thanks. Must have ben a malfunctioning neuron!

[melvin]

Aug 12, 2024 11:44:44 GMT -5 zendancer said:

Aug 12, 2024 10:10:31 GMT -5 melvin said:

In Buddhism, desire and ignorance lie at the root of suffering. By desire, Buddhists refer to craving pleasure, material goods, and immortality, all of which are wants that can never be satisfied. As a result, desiring them can only bring suffering.

I am aware that if I become desireless, craving for something stops. Would that make my problems of existing stop? Yes, by not doing anything. That means I stop eating, drinking and breathing. By doing so, I will die. My body dies.

It is told those who are buried in cemeteries are the very ones who are devoid of problems. Those who continue to exist will always have problems. The chasing never stops. Why? Due to the desires.

Desire, chase, problem. You die, no chasing, no  problem. As long as I exist, chasing never ends.

One of the main points in Buddhism is that chasing can end.

From Sadguru, " When Buddha opened his eyes after a long period of dreaming, people around him wanted to hear from Buddha what he has to say of his enlightenment. Buddha said,  Let's eat!  "