|
|
Post by lolly on Aug 31, 2024 9:31:40 GMT -5
I think it is best to consider 'working through aspects of yourself' as separate from 'self inquiry' because you are the way you are now; not 'otherwise'. The truth as it is. You are not all purified, you carry baggage, you have life issues, you lost a bit of your soul somewhere and so on. OK then, that's the way you are. That might impede your life functioning, like a V8 running on 7 cylinders, but it doesn't affect self-realisation - since you are as you are; not someone you remember or imagine yourself to be in the future. Each to their own in how one works through anything or not. I think if peeps have a strong pulling within themselves to work on themselves while enquiring also then that is best for them in that moment. You see for myself my sufferings coincided with self enquiry into why there is suffering had. I wasn't even looking for some 'true self' or anything like it. I wasn't searching for enlightenment or a meeting with God. I just knew I had to go within. Doing yoga and meditation helped unravel stuff that came to the surface of my heart and mind that needed purification or forgiveness from many incarnations. This resulted in a broader understanding of why peeps feel as they do without consciously knowing. I see it that while you have all this baggage as you put it, it is there for a reason, and yer it is the way you are now and that's ok. If peeps are ignorant to the fact of why there is baggage then that's alright too. If things need to be addressed then they need to be addressed otherwise whatever that is won't come to the surface. Peeps can have an expanded glimpse of awareness simply by taking LSD but what good does that do to anyone if there is the continuation had of feeling unloved or unworthy for their remaining days. I think it's beneficial for peeps to understand why baggage is still there from lifetime to lifetime even when it is seemingly out of one's mind or conscious reach. It's the itch you can't scratch. Some sort of realisation won't help in these matters. Peeps that bypass or ignore what they feel cos they don't believe anyone is here won't help matters either. I think that it is when no-one is here that matters get resolved. When someone is here, that's being generated by avoidance/resistance strategies that have always worked before. In meditation, when you stop and look, those resistive tendencies stop and the natural course of purification proceeds. As such you don't face your dilemmas as a person, in a personal way, and it's more like they untangle themselves in their own time, kind of like a wound up toy will run out of steam if left alone.
To me, it's not that one guy works through this way and another guy works through another way. To me, it's this is how nature does it, no matter who.
|
|
|
|
Post by inavalan on Aug 31, 2024 11:47:22 GMT -5
... Well there are no other's as the saying goes in some neighbourhoods and there is no one here to make a choice either. ... Actually, there are neither "here" nor "now" as most people believe, each believing their subjective perceptions. Everyone can only be sure that there is something: the perceiver, although that isn't what most people believe to be. |
|
|
|
Post by tenka on Aug 31, 2024 13:18:03 GMT -5
Well your understanding of what non duality actually refers to here above would be incorrect based upon another's understanding. Well there are no other's as the saying goes in some neighbourhoods and there is no one here to make a choice either. This is why you get many non dualists (again, excuse the pun) saying different things. In regards to chanting, I get it, words carry energy and that is amplified with the energy of intent and faith and belief attributed to them. I understood this the first time you mentioned it. Chanting anything won't do much for anyone if there isn't a belief behind the chanting. Hare Krishna means a lot to you, I have my own ritualistic sayings when I do healing work.
All one has to do is chant Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare. I believe in the Narada Pancaratra which says, " All Vedic literatures, rituals, conclusions are summarized into just 8 words ' Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare' " I believe it's a deterrent, preventing one from getting cancer. Even the great Rishis like Ramana, Nisagardatta Maharaj, Beatle George Harrison, Enigma himself were not exempted from it. I can simply explain this way, cancer/kansr. Krsna/Kansr. Does it make sense? By chanting Hare Krsna, one reverses the cancer/kansr cells in the body to krsna cells. That's my point why I believe it's a healing mantra. It does not cost one chanting the mantra a single cent, only one's sincerity and belief that this mantra will work. Well anything ritualistic is repetitive. Repeating Hare Krishna is ritualistic. Why do you think it works repeating Hare Krishna. Do you believe the spirit of Krishna heals those that chant his name? |
|
|
|
Post by tenka on Aug 31, 2024 13:21:02 GMT -5
... Well there are no other's as the saying goes in some neighbourhoods and there is no one here to make a choice either. ... as most people believe, each believing their subjective perceptions. Everyone can only be sure that there is something: the perceiver, although that isn't what most people believe to be. That is your subjective perceptional belief isn't it? There isn't anything actual is there, according to your belief in that there is only subjectivity? |
|
|
|
Post by tenka on Aug 31, 2024 13:34:32 GMT -5
Each to their own in how one works through anything or not. I think if peeps have a strong pulling within themselves to work on themselves while enquiring also then that is best for them in that moment. You see for myself my sufferings coincided with self enquiry into why there is suffering had. I wasn't even looking for some 'true self' or anything like it. I wasn't searching for enlightenment or a meeting with God. I just knew I had to go within. Doing yoga and meditation helped unravel stuff that came to the surface of my heart and mind that needed purification or forgiveness from many incarnations. This resulted in a broader understanding of why peeps feel as they do without consciously knowing. I see it that while you have all this baggage as you put it, it is there for a reason, and yer it is the way you are now and that's ok. If peeps are ignorant to the fact of why there is baggage then that's alright too. If things need to be addressed then they need to be addressed otherwise whatever that is won't come to the surface. Peeps can have an expanded glimpse of awareness simply by taking LSD but what good does that do to anyone if there is the continuation had of feeling unloved or unworthy for their remaining days. I think it's beneficial for peeps to understand why baggage is still there from lifetime to lifetime even when it is seemingly out of one's mind or conscious reach. It's the itch you can't scratch. Some sort of realisation won't help in these matters. Peeps that bypass or ignore what they feel cos they don't believe anyone is here won't help matters either. I think that it is when no-one is here that matters get resolved. When someone is here, that's being generated by avoidance/resistance strategies that have always worked before. In meditation, when you stop and look, those resistive tendencies stop and the natural course of purification proceeds. As such you don't face your dilemmas as a person, in a personal way, and it's more like they untangle themselves in their own time, kind of like a wound up toy will run out of steam if left alone.
To me, it's not that one guy works through this way and another guy works through another way. To me, it's this is how nature does it, no matter who.
No one being here reflects in there are no matters to get resolved. There is no one in meditation to stop and look at those avoidances. I understand things unraveling, it's what I said also, things come to the surface automatically when you are ready to face them. We can put the person aside if you like, but there are individual reactions had because what is experienced is effecting the one that is enquiring / meditating / suffering. If one didn't associate what was happening to themselves then one wouldn't be suffering, meditating, enquiring. There would be no reason to do anything based upon a belief that there is no self relations present. |
|
|
|
Post by inavalan on Aug 31, 2024 15:03:21 GMT -5
Actually, there are neither "here" nor "now" as most people believe, each believing their subjective perceptions. Everyone can only be sure that there is something: the perceiver, although that isn't what most people believe to be. That is your subjective perceptional belief isn't it? There isn't anything actual is there, according to your belief in that there is only subjectivity? . My disclaimer attached to everything I post reads: ' Although I don't always write it explicitly, it should be inferred that everything I post is "my belief", "my opinion" on that subject, at that moment. ...' I know that I perceive. Everything else is subjective, be it in the physical or in the non-physical, so I can't know for sure, just hypothesize with a subjective degree of confidence. This includes my hypotheses about what I am, what this perceiver is. This point of view doesn't say that there is nothing else. It just says that what I perceive is filtered by my subjectivity, and that I should be aware of it. I guess that's why some recommend a focus on "I am": to self-remind the subjective nature of your perception. When you find yourself thinking that "you know" anything, just remember that you actually only know that you are, in my formulation: you just subjectively perceive. You may believe that there is an objective physical reality, but you don't know. I hypothesize that there is no objective physical reality, but just an endless number of virtual realities, with various root assumptions, created by hypothetical associations resulting from hypothetical interconnections (through non-physical senses). All these beliefs I hold, resulted from subjective experiences in altered states of consciousness. They didn't result from rationalizations, so no argumentation can challenge them. These beliefs continuously evolve, but not as much through accumulation as through differentiation. |
|
|
|
Post by melvin on Aug 31, 2024 16:54:47 GMT -5
I believe the Hare Krishna mantra is a healing mantra. It does not require one to do rituals. All one has to do is chant Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare. I believe in the Narada Pancaratra which says, " All Vedic literatures, rituals, conclusions are summarized into just 8 words ' Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare' " I believe it's a deterrent, preventing one from getting cancer. Even the great Rishis like Ramana, Nisagardatta Maharaj, Beatle George Harrison, Enigma himself were not exempted from it. I can simply explain this way, cancer/kansr. Krsna/Kansr. Does it make sense? By chanting Hare Krsna, one reverses the cancer/kansr cells in the body to krsna cells. That's my point why I believe it's a healing mantra. It does not cost one chanting the mantra a single cent, only one's sincerity and belief that this mantra will work. Well anything ritualistic is repetitive. Repeating Hare Krishna is ritualistic. Why do you think it works repeating Hare Krishna. Do you believe the spirit of Krishna heals those that chant his name? Krishna is transcendent. The greatness of the name "Krishna" cannot be described even by a thousand words. It is one of the most beloved and sanctifying names of Sri Hari that fulfills all desires, dispels even the greatest of sins and provides salvation even to the most sinful one. |
|
|
|
Post by lolly on Aug 31, 2024 18:50:31 GMT -5
I think that it is when no-one is here that matters get resolved. When someone is here, that's being generated by avoidance/resistance strategies that have always worked before. In meditation, when you stop and look, those resistive tendencies stop and the natural course of purification proceeds. As such you don't face your dilemmas as a person, in a personal way, and it's more like they untangle themselves in their own time, kind of like a wound up toy will run out of steam if left alone.
To me, it's not that one guy works through this way and another guy works through another way. To me, it's this is how nature does it, no matter who.
No one being here reflects in there are no matters to get resolved. There is no one in meditation to stop and look at those avoidances. I understand things unraveling, it's what I said also, things come to the surface automatically when you are ready to face them. We can put the person aside if you like, but there are individual reactions had because what is experienced is effecting the one that is enquiring / meditating / suffering. If one didn't associate what was happening to themselves then one wouldn't be suffering, meditating, enquiring. There would be no reason to do anything based upon a belief that there is no self relations present. It's not so much that there are no matters to be resolved, it's more like there is no one resolving them, so you step aside and let what happens happen, kind of like you let go of the wind up toy and watch it. You will also notice how avoidences and resistances arise, and realise, 'this is what I've been doing all this time'.
For most of us, our emotional contents exceed our ability for equanimity, and realistically, if everything was just let loose it'd blow the mind and probably kill you. Hence, things get to a level of intensity, and you can't take any more, so the reactivity overwhelms you and prevents you getting harmed.
Just for an example, lets say a young child is getting abused. At night they are abused, and it's very traumatic, but they have to share the breakfast table with their abuser, get through the day at school, and then return home and do it all over again. To survive and get through the day, the emotional turmoil has to be put away to be dealt with when it is safe to do so. That means the resistive reactionary trait isn't bad. It's an essential for survival. There's very good reasons to suppress things, and they should stay repressed until really experiencing them doesn't leave you vulnerable to even deeper harm.
I don't say you 'should'. If the situation is not appropriate, it's like exposing a wound to a toxic pathogen. It's like sunbathing when you're sunburned. I just say you don't play a part in purification, but the wind up toy runs down in it's own time, provided you don't stop it. It's like you can't uncharge your phone, but you can stop charging it up.
|
|
|
|
Post by tenka on Sept 1, 2024 4:34:36 GMT -5
That is your subjective perceptional belief isn't it? There isn't anything actual is there, according to your belief in that there is only subjectivity? You may believe that there is an objective physical reality, but you don't know. Again, that is just your subjective belief isn't it. You seem to flutter in and out of subjectivity and then put something forward that is a matter of fact based upon your subjective beliefs. It's like someone saying they are not here but then say something self related. |
|
|
|
Post by tenka on Sept 1, 2024 4:41:37 GMT -5
That is your subjective perceptional belief isn't it? There isn't anything actual is there, according to your belief in that there is only subjectivity? All these beliefs I hold, resulted from subjective experiences in altered states of consciousness. They didn't result from rationalizations, so no argumentation can challenge them. These beliefs continuously evolve, but not as much through accumulation as through differentiation. .. Again, more subjective beliefs put forward in a way that is actual. That is why I pulled you up when you spoke about actualities earlier. I am not being picky here just to be picky but there seems to be mixed signal relating to your subjective beliefs being dressed up as actual knowings. You create an actuality in essence that your subjective beliefs resulted by experiencing altered states of consciousness. Altered states of consciousness are just your subjective beliefs. So we have a foundation of how subjective beliefs come about from a place of subjectiveness. I understand and note that you have a disclaimer addressing anything you say in these regards, but it's a little get out of jail free card  . |
|
|
|
Post by tenka on Sept 1, 2024 4:54:44 GMT -5
No one being here reflects in there are no matters to get resolved. There is no one in meditation to stop and look at those avoidances. I understand things unraveling, it's what I said also, things come to the surface automatically when you are ready to face them. We can put the person aside if you like, but there are individual reactions had because what is experienced is effecting the one that is enquiring / meditating / suffering. If one didn't associate what was happening to themselves then one wouldn't be suffering, meditating, enquiring. There would be no reason to do anything based upon a belief that there is no self relations present.
Just for an example, lets say a young child is getting abused. At night they are abused, and it's very traumatic, but they have to share the breakfast table with their abuser, get through the day at school, and then return home and do it all over again. To survive and get through the day, the emotional turmoil has to be put away to be dealt with when it is safe to do so. That means the resistive reactionary trait isn't bad. It's an essential for survival. There's very good reasons to suppress things, and they should stay repressed until really experiencing them doesn't leave you vulnerable to even deeper harm.
.. For sure, that's why I said to laffy, things come up when you are ready to deal with things, somethings come up from different incarnations. They never go away permanently, they just get buried to certain degrees. Sometimes peeps seem totally ignorant of things, sometimes one knows something isn't right but can't for the life of them know what it is and live with it for the rest of their days. Some get help from therapists, some like myself work it out for themselves. Nevertheless once one has put the personal traits aside one returns to them and this is where one has to live with whatever one has come to terms with or not, resolved or not. So the abused has to integrate the experience of abuse with their abuser at the kitchen table. It's a bit like those that have experienced what they are beyond the self and the mind and the world to then be aware of it again. Some disassociate to certain degrees, some integrate all things as what you are etc .. |
|
|
|
Post by tenka on Sept 1, 2024 5:08:13 GMT -5
Well anything ritualistic is repetitive. Repeating Hare Krishna is ritualistic. Why do you think it works repeating Hare Krishna. Do you believe the spirit of Krishna heals those that chant his name? Krishna is transcendent. The greatness of the name "Krishna" cannot be described even by a thousand words. It is one of the most beloved and sanctifying names of Sri Hari that fulfills all desires, dispels even the greatest of sins and provides salvation even to the most sinful one. Andy posted a healing video of someone healing in the name of Jesus Christ. Same thing applies here I would say. If you believe in numerology there are names that carry specific attributes. I don't know what Krishna adds up to mathematically. Perhaps these master / teachers names mirror their life's path. I know my name reflects certain life attributes I have being a number 7. I am not pushing this angle too hard but I am trying to understand if you put the power into the name itself more than the spirit embodied as Krishna. So far you are perhaps giving credence to the name more than anything else? When I use certain names in my healing rituals, I don't put the belief in the name per se. It's more so an identification / marker attributed to the spirit / soul vibration. Like the violet flame energy of St. Germain for instance. It's the vibration that the violet flame carries, not the name St Germain. |
|
|
|
Post by melvin on Sept 1, 2024 7:34:41 GMT -5
Krishna is transcendent. The greatness of the name "Krishna" cannot be described even by a thousand words. It is one of the most beloved and sanctifying names of Sri Hari that fulfills all desires, dispels even the greatest of sins and provides salvation even to the most sinful one. Andy posted a healing video of someone healing in the name of Jesus Christ. Same thing applies here I would say. If you believe in numerology there are names that carry specific attributes. I don't know what Krishna adds up to mathematically. Perhaps these master / teachers names mirror their life's path. I know my name reflects certain life attributes I have being a number 7. I am not pushing this angle too hard but I am trying to understand if you put the power into the name itself more than the spirit embodied as Krishna. So far you are perhaps giving credence to the name more than anything else? When I use certain names in my healing rituals, I don't put the belief in the name per se. It's more so an identification / marker attributed to the spirit / soul vibration. Like the violet flame energy of St. Germain for instance. It's the vibration that the violet flame carries, not the name St Germain. Krishna says, BG 18.66: " Abandon all varieties of dharmas and simply surrender unto Me alone. I shall liberate you from all sinful reactions; do not fear." AI: The verse you mentioned from the Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 18, Verse 66, conveys a profound message about surrendering to the divine. Lord Krishna instructs Arjuna to abandon all forms of dharma and completely surrender unto Him. By doing so, Krishna assures Arjuna that he will be liberated from all sinful reactions and need not fear. This teaching emphasizes the importance of wholehearted surrender and trust in a higher power as a means to transcend worldly attachments and attain spiritual liberation. It highlights the idea that by surrendering to the Divine will and letting go of ego-driven desires and actions, one can find true peace and freedom from suffering. -This is my reference why I insist Krishna can prevent/ cure cancer |
|
|
|
Post by inavalan on Sept 1, 2024 13:41:51 GMT -5
On one hand, I write my posts with positive expectations. This is why I do it. On the other hand, I hold the belief that people have their beliefs, subscribe to hypotheses, that are quite different than mine. So, this is the reality I associate with, what I experience. I perceive, I interpret, I choose what to adjust, I respond / create. Breath in, breath out. Looping on this with intended positive expectations. |
|
|
|
Post by lolly on Sept 2, 2024 1:43:20 GMT -5
Just for an example, lets say a young child is getting abused. At night they are abused, and it's very traumatic, but they have to share the breakfast table with their abuser, get through the day at school, and then return home and do it all over again. To survive and get through the day, the emotional turmoil has to be put away to be dealt with when it is safe to do so. That means the resistive reactionary trait isn't bad. It's an essential for survival. There's very good reasons to suppress things, and they should stay repressed until really experiencing them doesn't leave you vulnerable to even deeper harm.
.. For sure, that's why I said to laffy, things come up when you are ready to deal with things, somethings come up from different incarnations. They never go away permanently, they just get buried to certain degrees. Sometimes peeps seem totally ignorant of things, sometimes one knows something isn't right but can't for the life of them know what it is and live with it for the rest of their days. Some get help from therapists, some like myself work it out for themselves. Nevertheless once one has put the personal traits aside one returns to them and this is where one has to live with whatever one has come to terms with or not, resolved or not. So the abused has to integrate the experience of abuse with their abuser at the kitchen table. It's a bit like those that have experienced what they are beyond the self and the mind and the world to then be aware of it again. Some disassociate to certain degrees, some integrate all things as what you are etc .. I'm an integrate all as you are kinda guy myself, and one may touch on the infinite outpouring of love, yet attention will return to what needs it, and things that get tied up in knots can unwind in their own time because you are just as you are without desire that you should be otherwise. Whatever it is with you psychologically/emotionally etc, some you will take to the grave, is fine, and there's no more desire to be 'someone' (else), so as much as the ego contains in the form of sankara, no one is pushing this and resisting that, avoiding this and pursuing that anymore, when truth is 'this is what it's like' with the awareness pure and free from clinging - everything is strangely beautiful. If the experience becomes too extreme, at first with emotional trauma and later with energy flow, the amount a koala can bear depends on his mental balance. The meditator only trains the calm that enables an even keel in even the worst storms. Conscious awareness with equanimity of mind is the training - and all things come to pass. |
|
.