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Post by andrew on Sept 5, 2023 9:00:16 GMT -5
I am of a different opinion. Hypnosis throws doubt on all sensual perception. If you can be hypnotized into looking for your shoe while holding it in your hand, or develop burns and blisters with no exposure to a burning agent, or forget your own name, or develop fears, likes and dislikes, and so on, then you obviously can't trust what you experience to be so. The intellectual understanding is based on the five senses perception, and it is distorted by your beliefs. You can't develop a higher order of knowledge intellectually. You need intuition. Reason and sense depend on the quality of the input data, and on the ability to reason. I think too that the Eastern ways are more conducive to approaching the truths, but I am not aware of any actual way that really accomplishes that. All use some kind of hypnosis on the followers, as all other religions, philosophies, practices do, leaving the seeker exposed to gurus and dogmas' suggestions, all of them based on distorted interpretations of individual experiences. I believe that the only way to remove some of the distortions is to intuitively interpret everything. EDIT: I see that you edited your post, and reformulated in a few places, but I don't think that it makes a difference to my reply. What is intuition for unless it guides one to a more-objective reality? That's a very interesting question, I just gave it a bit of thought while out walking. While I don't wholly disagree with your view, I'd say intuition doesn't necessarily indicate a more objective reality , it's more that it indicates the subjectively right way for that individual. Almost as if there's a higher self that can see the landscape far clearer than us...like a bird's eye view...and it drops hints (or stronger) about the path that is most aligned to who we really are. I find there are times that I absolutely cannot ignore intuition. When the body signal cannot be challenged. For example, my intuition (and body) has been absolutely clear that the covid vaccines weren't right for me (though they may have been right for others). And I've occasionally walked away from situations that I may have paid hundreds...even thousands...of dollars for....on the basis of compelling intuition. Often I am IN those situations to start with, because I didn't follow intuition! On the other hand, I agree with you to the extent that sometimes intuition can tell us when we are being lied to, when something is 'off', but I think what we may be picking up is that what is being sold to us is not aligned to who THEY really are. |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Sept 5, 2023 10:52:55 GMT -5
Right, IT is prior to any appearance and/or subsequent label for such a thing. Horns?  Yes. Singular. Good catch. And here I thought I had sounded so enlightened a la reeforoni.  |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Sept 5, 2023 11:00:04 GMT -5
What is intuition for unless it guides one to a more-objective reality? That's a very interesting question, I just gave it a bit of thought while out walking. While I don't wholly disagree with your view, I'd say intuition doesn't necessarily indicate a more objective reality , it's more that it indicates the subjectively right way for that individual. Almost as if there's a higher self that can see the landscape far clearer than us...like a bird's eye view...and it drops hints (or stronger) about the path that is most aligned to who we really are. I find there are times that I absolutely cannot ignore intuition. When the body signal cannot be challenged. For example, my intuition (and body) has been absolutely clear that the covid vaccines weren't right for me (though they may have been right for others). And I've occasionally walked away from situations that I may have paid hundreds...even thousands...of dollars for....on the basis of compelling intuition. Often I am IN those situations to start with, because I didn't follow intuition! On the other hand, I agree with you to the extent that sometimes intuition can tell us when we are being lied to, when something is 'off', but I think what we may be picking up is that what is being sold to us is not aligned to who THEY really are. Yeah, I could see how one might refine one's intuition, especially for specific purposes. It could even be used to turn one's attention on what grabs one's attention and why, and all the rest. It also seems that the 'better' one was attuned to it for certain contexts, the more one would likely feel confidence in the direction that emerges in its expression of thought/feeling, though the tinge of doubt may still be there. |
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Post by Reefs on Sept 5, 2023 12:27:18 GMT -5
That's the way I see it too. However, there seems to be no interest in going thru that door. Instead, Inavalan turns around and goes right back into imagination. As I understand these, I am oriented toward the expansion of consciousness, as opposed to regressing to a more primary level of consciousness, as the cellular consciousness is, from where, under LSD and other pracrices, the body is perceived as an universe. This happens because of the increased suggestibility in a thoughtless state. Surely this state appears to the seeker as an ultimate, but it is an ultimate dead end. I am interested in the expansion of the consciousness, and in expanding my consciousness. Imagination isn't a bad thing, as it is a tool of creation. Understood. |
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Post by Reefs on Sept 5, 2023 12:30:17 GMT -5
Past, present and future come and go. Experiences come and go. And what does come and go is not real. But Being, is. The Eternal Now, is. And only what does not come and go is real. That's why we are pointing to the Now and not the present, to Being and not experiences. The physical time is one dimension of the physical hyperspace. It is like the time of a story in a book you read, in a videogame you play. It isn't related to the time in the reader, or player's own reality. Yes, every- thing. But that's not everything. There is some-no-thing that isn't changing. And that's what we are pointing to. |
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Post by Reefs on Sept 5, 2023 12:31:37 GMT -5
Isn't it curious, ~GM~ would not know Being, without the *you*, ~GM~ says "is not real"? So it seems this "not real" something is pretty important. You are confusing the person with the individual again. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2023 12:44:56 GMT -5
That's the way I see it too. However, there seems to be no interest in going thru that door. Instead, Inavalan turns around and goes right back into imagination. As I understand these, I am oriented toward the expansion of consciousness, as opposed to regressing to a more primary level of consciousness, as the cellular consciousness is, from where, under LSD and other pracrices, the body is perceived as an universe. This happens because of the increased suggestibility in a thoughtless state. Surely this state appears to the seeker as an ultimate, but it is an ultimate dead end. I am interested in the expansion of the consciousness, and in expanding my consciousness. Imagination isn't a bad thing, as it is a tool of creation. These are concocted beliefs about the Unknown on the other side of the "door". An explorer would go through the door. But if you're attached to the belief-stage of spirituality, then you can't. Because the beliefs won't survive. Imagination is neither good nor bad. Imagination driven by fear of the Unknown - that might be the root of all evil. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2023 12:47:43 GMT -5
As I understand these, I am oriented toward the expansion of consciousness, as opposed to regressing to a more primary level of consciousness, as the cellular consciousness is, from where, under LSD and other pracrices, the body is perceived as an universe. This happens because of the increased suggestibility in a thoughtless state. Surely this state appears to the seeker as an ultimate, but it is an ultimate dead end. I am interested in the expansion of the consciousness, and in expanding my consciousness. Imagination isn't a bad thing, as it is a tool of creation. Understood. Dang, I thought you might take a Zen stick to that bull pucky. But you're probably smart to disengage. Hehe. |
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Post by andrew on Sept 5, 2023 13:29:12 GMT -5
That's a very interesting question, I just gave it a bit of thought while out walking. While I don't wholly disagree with your view, I'd say intuition doesn't necessarily indicate a more objective reality , it's more that it indicates the subjectively right way for that individual. Almost as if there's a higher self that can see the landscape far clearer than us...like a bird's eye view...and it drops hints (or stronger) about the path that is most aligned to who we really are. I find there are times that I absolutely cannot ignore intuition. When the body signal cannot be challenged. For example, my intuition (and body) has been absolutely clear that the covid vaccines weren't right for me (though they may have been right for others). And I've occasionally walked away from situations that I may have paid hundreds...even thousands...of dollars for....on the basis of compelling intuition. Often I am IN those situations to start with, because I didn't follow intuition! On the other hand, I agree with you to the extent that sometimes intuition can tell us when we are being lied to, when something is 'off', but I think what we may be picking up is that what is being sold to us is not aligned to who THEY really are. Yeah, I could see how one might refine one's intuition, especially for specific purposes. It could even be used to turn one's attention on what grabs one's attention and why, and all the rest. It also seems that the 'better' one was attuned to it for certain contexts, the more one would likely feel confidence in the direction that emerges in its expression of thought/feeling, though the tinge of doubt may still be there. I know there are courses out there for folks that wish to refine conditioning, and I guess some are very good, but for me it's been more organic, in the sense that as fear based conditioning has released, the intuitive sense has become compelling. For me, intuition isn't so much a technique, or a tool, it's more a way of being, or way of life. In certain ways, I'm quite animalistic. |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Sept 5, 2023 13:54:20 GMT -5
Yeah, I could see how one might refine one's intuition, especially for specific purposes. It could even be used to turn one's attention on what grabs one's attention and why, and all the rest. It also seems that the 'better' one was attuned to it for certain contexts, the more one would likely feel confidence in the direction that emerges in its expression of thought/feeling, though the tinge of doubt may still be there. I know there are courses out there for folks that wish to refine conditioning, and I guess some are very good, but for me it's been more organic, in the sense that as fear based conditioning has released, the intuitive sense has become compelling. For me, intuition isn't so much a technique, or a tool, it's more a way of being, or way of life. In certain ways, I'm quite animalistic. Agreed, it is ultimately very organic, attuned to the experiential flow that is life. I've always been more of a gut-centered character (a la Enneagram type stuff). Ironically, as involved in education as I was, I'd say there's much more to learn/unlearn outside a classroom per se, as life is the actual classroom. In a way, imo, it could be said that many folks could use a little-lot more attuning to their animalistic nature, as opposed to denying it or solely valuing humanistic capacities like cerebral cognition. It can really fling some doors wide open; not to mention, it's just fun in that flow state. Being attuned with/as nature lured me back to the mountains a lot. |
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Post by lolly on Sept 5, 2023 16:38:15 GMT -5
I think we say 'intuition' to imply some sort of magic element to what we think. I use the word, too, "My intuition tells me...", but it only means I think something. I never did a statistical analysis, but I imagine my intuitions would be wrong about as frequently as any prediction pulled from a hat.
They seem magic because one forgets the wrong ones, like , Hh well, and remembers the right ones, like, See? Totally psychic.
Gestalt a weird word because no matter how many times I'm told what it means, I still have no it what it means. I did a 101 course on Gestalt psychology, but I always thought that was just the name of the guy who invented it.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 5, 2023 16:40:42 GMT -5
Isn't it curious, ~GM~ would not know Being, without the *you*, ~GM~ says "is not real"? So it seems this "not real" something is pretty important. You are confusing the person with the individual again. So the individual is real and the person is not? That's what I've been saying for 14 years, here (essence vs small s self/cultural self). |
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Post by andrew on Sept 5, 2023 16:44:39 GMT -5
I know there are courses out there for folks that wish to refine conditioning, and I guess some are very good, but for me it's been more organic, in the sense that as fear based conditioning has released, the intuitive sense has become compelling. For me, intuition isn't so much a technique, or a tool, it's more a way of being, or way of life. In certain ways, I'm quite animalistic. Agreed, it is ultimately very organic, attuned to the experiential flow that is life. I've always been more of a gut-centered character (a la Enneagram type stuff). Ironically, as involved in education as I was, I'd say there's much more to learn/unlearn outside a classroom per se, as life is the actual classroom. In a way, imo, it could be said that many folks could use a little-lot more attuning to their animalistic nature, as opposed to denying it or solely valuing humanistic capacities like cerebral cognition. It can really fling some doors wide open; not to mention, it's just fun in that flow state. Being attuned with/as nature lured me back to the mountains a lot. Nicely said thanks |
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Post by andrew on Sept 5, 2023 16:53:16 GMT -5
I think we say 'intuition' to imply some sort of magic element to what we think. I use the word, too, "My intuition tells me...", but it only means I think something. I never did a statistical analysis, but I imagine my intuitions would be wrong about as frequently as any prediction pulled from a hat. They seem magic because one forgets the wrong ones, like , Hh well, and remembers the right ones, like, See? Totally psychic. Gestalt a weird word because no matter how many times I'm told what it means, I still have no it what it means. I did a 101 course on Gestalt psychology, but I always thought that was just the name of the guy who invented it. I don't know exactly what it is, but I can experience it as a physical body phenomenon. For example, I might decide that doing something is a good thing to do, that I should do it...even that I want to do it.... and then as I begin to act on that, I can feel physically pulled away from doing that thing. If I continue to ignore this pull, it intensifies until it cannot be ignored. 15-20 years ago this was much more frequent than it is now, but there were more conflicting forces within me then, than there are now. |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Sept 5, 2023 19:34:54 GMT -5
I think we say 'intuition' to imply some sort of magic element to what we think. I use the word, too, "My intuition tells me...", but it only means I think something. I never did a statistical analysis, but I imagine my intuitions would be wrong about as frequently as any prediction pulled from a hat. They seem magic because one forgets the wrong ones, like , Hh well, and remembers the right ones, like, See? Totally psychic. Gestalt a weird word because no matter how many times I'm told what it means, I still have no it what it means. I did a 101 course on Gestalt psychology, but I always thought that was just the name of the guy who invented it. Sure, it can be a weird thing to try to nail down what it is or express what it's made of, and I would never really go into a convo on its legitimacy, accuracy, or whatever either. I could also say the same about some peeps' reasoning and logic. It can be loaded with unconscious nonsense, highly questionable at times, and all the rest, as well. Everyone uses a sense of intuition everyday and different folks are at different levels of ease with it in activities that one is interested in. You, for example, probably use a sense of it when doing gardening. Zaz might use it in communicative contexts with his pups. SDP when figuring out an optimal wiring schema. And on and on. But, I would say that it is an aspect of mind-filtered Intelligence that could be more instinctual or perhaps more primitive, though not necessarily in a bad way. Some folks just got a sense for certain things. Maybe Inavalan will start to share what s/he considers decent links/visuals for a deeper look into it, or continue to express a preponderance of the evidence for respecting it as a tool. I don't even understand enough about it to get into trouble with, which is a baseline I (unfortunately  ) use a lot. In the meantime, anyone can goog it. |
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) use a lot. In the meantime, anyone can goog it.