|
|
Post by inavalan on Jun 19, 2023 22:23:36 GMT -5
Whole world won't change, only your sphere of experience. The whole word is your sphere of experience. You are aware of war between Russia-Ukraine? You are aware of poverty in your country? You are aware that people are raped and mutilated? If not, then you are now. Have you ever tried to interpret those situations, to understand why are they in your reality? What are you supposed to learn from them? I guess that you believe that they don't reflect your inner-reality, and that they are caused by forces independent from you. I believe that all of us who experience those, brought them into our individual realities through our beliefs, emotions, free-will incorrect choices, and that each one of us is supposed to interpret them, learn lessons, and apply those lessons. Some will, some won't. |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jun 19, 2023 22:25:13 GMT -5
The whole word is your sphere of experience. You are aware of war between Russia-Ukraine? You are aware of poverty in your country? You are aware that people are raped and mutilated? If not, then you are now. Have you ever tried to interpret those situations, to understand why are they in your reality? What are you supposed to learn from them? I guess that you believe that they don't reflect your inner-reality, and that they are caused by forces independent from you.
I believe that all of us who experience those, brought them into our individual realities through our beliefs, emotions, free-will incorrect choices, and that each one of us is supposed to interpret them, learn lessons, and apply those lessons. Some will, some won't. No, definitely not  I believe they are expressions/reflections of my internal reality. I explore why I participate in the creation of them. What is 'within me' that contributes to this creation. Sometimes I am willing to take TOTAL responsibility for them, though it's perhaps a bit narcissistic (or solipsist) to take that view all the time. I generally lean more into the idea of 'collective creation', which does include me of course (And there are also times when I surrender any notion of 'personal or collective creation', if I sense/feel that is the higher path to take) |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2023 22:37:33 GMT -5
Have you ever tried to interpret those situations, to understand why are they in your reality? What are you supposed to learn from them? I guess that you believe that they don't reflect your inner-reality, and that they are caused by forces independent from you.
I believe that all of us who experience those, brought them into our individual realities through our beliefs, emotions, free-will incorrect choices, and that each one of us is supposed to interpret them, learn lessons, and apply those lessons. Some will, some won't. No, definitely not I believe they are expressions/reflections of my internal reality. I explore why I participate in the creation of them. What is 'within me' that contributes to this creation. Sometimes I am willing to take TOTAL responsibility for them, though it's perhaps a bit narcissistic (or solipsist) to take that view all the time. I generally lean more into the idea of 'collective creation', which does include me of course (And there are also times when I surrender any notion of 'personal or collective creation', if I sense/feel that is the higher path to take) There is no collective creation. Individuals are not making choices here. Everything moves as one. Your choices are part of the overall movement of universe |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jun 19, 2023 22:45:49 GMT -5
No, definitely not I believe they are expressions/reflections of my internal reality. I explore why I participate in the creation of them. What is 'within me' that contributes to this creation. Sometimes I am willing to take TOTAL responsibility for them, though it's perhaps a bit narcissistic (or solipsist) to take that view all the time. I generally lean more into the idea of 'collective creation', which does include me of course (And there are also times when I surrender any notion of 'personal or collective creation', if I sense/feel that is the higher path to take) There is no collective creation. Individuals are not making choices here. Everything moves as one. Your choices are part of the overall movement of universe Well, I consider personal responsibility to be a good thing, and a useful thing. Focus/attention is a tool, and if its there to be used, then use it. And avoiding that responsibility when life is inviting its presence into our experience, is worse than simply accepting that responsibility into our experience...What we reject, is still based in our own fear. Nevertheless, I don't disagree with you, and my final point in what I previously said, spoke to that. |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jun 19, 2023 23:14:24 GMT -5
It would look exactly as it does now. THIS, in the form of humans, can be happy, sad, irritated, angry, compassionate, aloof, etc. even if there are no thoughts at all. However, most humans think ideas that are believed to be true (are attached to), and that adds an extra layer of problematic response. Blame is one of those ideas. You have been immersed in your belief. Ask a simple question, If you know nobody is responsible for what's happening, then why are you angry and for what? Would you go and stab the character who acted in the movie after completing the movie? Don't know that's scripted? What's being pointed to is not logical. If a why question is asked, it reveals that one has not realized the obvious. If one knows that no one is responsible for anything that happens, then what would cause irritation or sadness? Something much deeper is going on that logic cannot touch. |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jun 19, 2023 23:19:48 GMT -5
No, definitely not I believe they are expressions/reflections of my internal reality. I explore why I participate in the creation of them. What is 'within me' that contributes to this creation. Sometimes I am willing to take TOTAL responsibility for them, though it's perhaps a bit narcissistic (or solipsist) to take that view all the time. I generally lean more into the idea of 'collective creation', which does include me of course (And there are also times when I surrender any notion of 'personal or collective creation', if I sense/feel that is the higher path to take) There is no collective creation. Individuals are not making choices here. Everything moves as one. Your choices are part of the overall movement of universe I agree that everything moves as one, but that also includes irritation, sadness, anger, etc. There is no separate volitional entity doing anything other than BEING "what is" AS "what is." How does logic have anything to do with what is beyond logic? Just curious. |
|
|
|
Post by sharon on Jun 20, 2023 4:09:54 GMT -5
What would universe look like If you have realized personal self-hood is illusion and no one is responsible for anything? What if you are living in a universe where you don't have to blame anyone and as a result you don't have to get angry? how that would look like? You get angry because your brain makes minor predictions continually throughout your day about what will happen next. When momentarily, those predictions, plans and trajectories are interfered with or thwarted, a rescrambling of the neural connections is necessary. As that needs energy to happen, the energy is created by the fire of anger.  Not getting angry would mean that your plans, trajectories and predictions were just not as important as what's happening right here and right now. |
|
|
|
Post by sharon on Jun 20, 2023 4:11:18 GMT -5
Like this... '' This birth of a new Earth will be a world of peace, working within global unity, and in support of all human kind in absolute equality. Our Earth will be governed by an awakened human species without the need for a government or laws. The truth will be lived; not taught.'' Aluna Joy Yaxkin That will never happen. It may well happen in Aluna Joy Yaxkin's reality. It's not for you to say it won't. |
|
|
|
Post by sharon on Jun 20, 2023 4:13:59 GMT -5
No, definitely not I believe they are expressions/reflections of my internal reality. I explore why I participate in the creation of them. What is 'within me' that contributes to this creation. Sometimes I am willing to take TOTAL responsibility for them, though it's perhaps a bit narcissistic (or solipsist) to take that view all the time. I generally lean more into the idea of 'collective creation', which does include me of course (And there are also times when I surrender any notion of 'personal or collective creation', if I sense/feel that is the higher path to take) Individuals are not making choices here. Everything moves as one. Your choices are part of the overall movement of universe Consciousness is what the Collective, is. Personal consciousness is the much smaller perspective that your thread is attempting to discuss. |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jun 20, 2023 5:20:16 GMT -5
There is no collective creation. Individuals are not making choices here. Everything moves as one. Your choices are part of the overall movement of universe Consciousness is what the Collective, is. Personal consciousness is the much smaller perspective that your thread is attempting to discuss. Yes, and the idea that individuals are making choices is another false idea. If everything moves as one, then whatever happens is not by choice; it is simply an unfolding of "what is." We use the word "choice" conventionally as a communicative abstraction to describe everyday life, but is there actually a choice involved in anything that happens? According to scientific research what we call "choices" have already been made by the body/universe/"what is" prior to conscious awareness, so there is no volition in the way that is commonly assumed and believed. Furthermore, if logic were applicable to this issue, then the same logic would apply to any other action that we could label "response to the environment." In this context focusing only on anger but ignoring irritation or other human responses to life is irrational and illogical. If one understood that everything moves as one, then why would irritation or impatience occur? Wouldn't such a human be impervious to, and content with, whatever happened to be happening? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2023 5:52:41 GMT -5
There is no collective creation. Individuals are not making choices here. Everything moves as one. Your choices are part of the overall movement of universe Well, I consider personal responsibility to be a good thing, and a useful thing. Focus/attention is a tool, and if its there to be used, then use it. And avoiding that responsibility when life is inviting its presence into our experience, is worse than simply accepting that responsibility into our experience...What we reject, is still based in our own fear. Nevertheless, I don't disagree with you, and my final point in what I previously said, spoke to that. okay. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2023 6:30:25 GMT -5
There is no collective creation. Individuals are not making choices here. Everything moves as one. Your choices are part of the overall movement of universe I agree that everything moves as one, but that also includes irritation, sadness, anger, etc. There is no separate volitional entity doing anything other than BEING "what is" AS "what is." Yes.
Don't be curious, you are right.
|
|
|
|
Post by figrebirth on Jun 20, 2023 11:21:52 GMT -5
Gopal, did you mean to say if you, or if everyone? I am talking about knowing that no one is responsible. What if you know no one is responsible for whatever is happening. I think there is a context issue involved here Gopal.
The realization that ultimately there is "no-one/no-thing" fundamentally to blame....no one that is fundamentally/actually separate who could volitionally, independently "choose" something different than what appeared is something different than the experiential/in the dream assignation of accountability to an appearing person.
While the realization that no one/no-thing is fundamentally, independently choosing or to blame for anything that arises in experience, the experience/appearance of personal accountability as a facet of the unfolding story/dream, does still to some degree remain in play.
And that's really how it is for a myriad of responses/behaviors/story facets, following SR. Because the apparent me character, complete with personality, likes/dislikes, continues to appear even after seeing through the separate, volitional entity/person, there are still going to be 'human/personalized' responses to the behaviors and such of apparent others.
Built into the dream/story IS the story of personal accountability....of personal choice. That story does get seen for what it is and does get re-framed as experiential content/appearance only in SR, but that does not mean the appearance of personal choice/accountability completely disappears from the story.
So long as discrete, individuals are experienced, experiential personal accountability.....personal agency is still to some degree going to remain in play.
This is the same issue that plagues many a Nonduality discussion; An erroneous mistaking of what continues to remain in play within the story vs. what goes in the seeing through of separation.
This is similar to how seeing the fundamental perfection of all of it does not necessarily mean you will never again 'dislike' something that imminently appears. Personal judgments still happen...they simply do not extend as deep....they no longer have the overlay of the SVP inherent to them.
Again, same issue as the erroneous assumption that seeing through "a" perceiver/experiencer/doer/seer/thinker, then necessary means a complete dissolving of the experience of people who perceive/experience/see/think.
Fundamental/existential seeing does change experience, but not always in the ways the person might think it should. The world of many things, of individualized persons, continues to appear following the realization that it's all fundamentally One.
|
|
|
|
Post by figrebirth on Jun 20, 2023 11:25:50 GMT -5
It would look exactly as it does now. THIS, in the form of humans, can be happy, sad, irritated, angry, compassionate, aloof, etc. even if there are no thoughts at all. However, most humans think ideas that are believed to be true (are attached to), and that adds an extra layer of problematic response. Blame is one of those ideas. You have been immersed in your belief. Ask a simple question, If you know nobody is responsible for what's happening, then why are you angry and for what? Would you go and stab the character who acted in the movie after completing the movie? Don't know that's scripted? You cannot know for certain the depth of resistance arising by simply observing. I define "anger" as something beyond mere arising/falling irritation/frustration; It's involves the presence of a judgment so deep that that the condition being judged is deemed to be fundamentally "intolerable." It's an absence of the illumination/unobscured shining through of fundamental perfection.
There's an issue in simply observing responses of folks on forums and thinking you can know for certain that their judgments actually extend that deep.
|
|
|
|
Post by figrebirth on Jun 20, 2023 11:27:22 GMT -5
The whole word is your sphere of experience. You are aware of war between Russia-Ukraine? You are aware of poverty in your country? You are aware that people are raped and mutilated? If not, then you are now. Have you ever tried to interpret those situations, to understand why are they in your reality? What are you supposed to learn from them? I guess that you believe that they don't reflect your inner-reality, and that they are caused by forces independent from you. I believe that all of us who experience those, brought them into our individual realities through our beliefs, emotions, free-will incorrect choices, and that each one of us is supposed to interpret them, learn lessons, and apply those lessons. Some will, some won't. Rather than focusing/inquiring into the events/conditions themselves, I say it's far more fruitful to inquire into your judgments and feelings about them....how deep do those judgments go? Are you able or not to see an inherent, fundamental perfection even in those conditions that are not conforming with your personal preferences/likes? |
|
