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Post by Reefs on Jun 24, 2023 0:09:29 GMT -5
It is interesting to see people starting with a hypothesis, then trying to massage the reality they observe to fit that hypothesis. Funny things get invented. Hilarious justifications are stated seriously.  Indeed.  |
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Post by Reefs on Jun 24, 2023 1:11:26 GMT -5
That's the way I see it too. Both anger and irritation are negative emotions, i.e. natural reactions to encountering unwanted. They only differ in intensity. That's the only difference. Sound dude: "I tell you what's causing me pain, it's having to keep listening to this argument." |
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Post by andrew on Jun 24, 2023 6:33:58 GMT -5
My inner guidance is strong on this matter There are many dimensions of existence, and certainly (to me) this relatively small reality that we experience does not constitute all that is. You mean a place where there is no contrast (aka unwanted)? Even Abe say that they experience contrast. well, in any choice, there will be one that is preferred more than the other. I'm about to have breakfast...could have cereal or fruit....I'd rather have cereal today. But the fact that I don't want fruit isn't a problem or a pain in any way. So yeah, there'd be contrast, but I'd describe it as very superficial. In 'flow', the contrast is incredibly superficial. |
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Post by Reefs on Jun 24, 2023 9:14:09 GMT -5
You mean a place where there is no contrast (aka unwanted)? Even Abe say that they experience contrast. well, in any choice, there will be one that is preferred more than the other. I'm about to have breakfast...could have cereal or fruit....I'd rather have cereal today. But the fact that I don't want fruit isn't a problem or a pain in any way. So yeah, there'd be contrast, but I'd describe it as very superficial. In 'flow', the contrast is incredibly superficial. This does sound more like the clipping experience Laughter mentioned recently. Actually, the original definition of flow experience (Csikszentmihalyi) is your skill level perfectly matching the challenge you are facing. If the challenge you are facing is far greater than your current skill level, you will experience anxiety. And that's not fun. And if the challenge is far less than your current skill level, you will experience boredom. And that's not fun either. So flow is basically the sweet spot between boredom and anxiety. And that's where the fun is. (That was actually also the title of a book, Beyond Boredom and Anxiety: Experiencing Flow in Work and Play by Csikszentmihalyi) Which means, potentially, contrast can be huge in flow. So that's not such a good example. |
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Post by andrew on Jun 24, 2023 10:07:57 GMT -5
well, in any choice, there will be one that is preferred more than the other. I'm about to have breakfast...could have cereal or fruit....I'd rather have cereal today. But the fact that I don't want fruit isn't a problem or a pain in any way. So yeah, there'd be contrast, but I'd describe it as very superficial. In 'flow', the contrast is incredibly superficial. This does sound more like the clipping experience Laughter mentioned recently. Actually, the original definition of flow experience (Csikszentmihalyi) is your skill level perfectly matching the challenge you are facing. If the challenge you are facing is far greater than your current skill level, you will experience anxiety. And that's not fun. And if the challenge is far less than your current skill level, you will experience boredom. And that's not fun either. So flow is basically the sweet spot between boredom and anxiety. And that's where the fun is. (That was actually also the title of a book, Beyond Boredom and Anxiety: Experiencing Flow in Work and Play by Csikszentmihalyi) Which means, potentially, contrast can be huge in flow. So that's not such a good example. I see. I'll explain it like this then... I believe this dimensional reality is about remembering our true nature, and that includes our capacity as apparent individuals to create. What some might call 'mastery'. And it's actually a lower level game, in the sense that it requires relatively high level density to play it. Though in another sense this lowered level game attracts the most curious and bold souls. It's a helluva challenge. But at this point, it's almost finished for many souls on earth, and it's time for a higher level game, though the transition process between one game and another is a new and interesting process in itself. But in the higher level game, the key theme is play. We explore mastery in really fun ways, and somewhat unimaginable from where we are now. And ultimately that's just another cycle. After that some souls may choose to drop back into heavier density again for the experience, or some may progress more into non physicality e.g Abraham |
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Post by figrebirth on Jun 24, 2023 11:40:30 GMT -5
Oh man, brings to mind my recent experience with our 5 cats and little wienie dog.....we've just listed our home for sale, had back to back showings.......had simultaneously just changed all the pets dry food to some new-fangled grain free type, and viola, all of 'em developed diarrhea....seemed every time I turned around there was a new, fresh "accident" right where I'd just mopped and left a nice, fresh sparkling floor for the next showing.....there were a few expletives going 'round there, I assure you as I cleaned and re-cleaned and then did it all over again.....add to it, the absence of offers, the need to keep going with showings....in fact, we're still going with showings.....showings suck  ....you get the pic, I'm sure. But yeah, no instrinsic blame or sense of how things were going fundamentally wrong or "should" have been different. And I agree with you, that IS key. As I've said, it can be very difficult simply looking on, observing another to decipher with clarity whether true "sense of separation/blameful anger" really is in play, or not.
I actually find those kinds of experiences serve even more poignantly as evidence that it's all one, seamless movement....but even more than that...that God has one helluva a sense of humor! What you are describing here is basically what Abe call "Step 5", appreciating contrast. Well yeah....sort of....'Cept, when it comes to A-H teachings, that 'sense of separation' is very much built-in to the bent towards harnessing that position and others like it...that bent towards that position of acceptance is mostly "for the purpose of" creating a future manifestation that will conform with personal desires.
If all they were selling were pointers towards present moment, immediate acceptance/allowance for the sheer sake of present moment, inherent joy of that, all fine and good. But that's not the case....even though they DO acknowledge that present moment perk.
"Deliberate creation," is far more about ensuring a future manifest reality that if rife with all the personal goodies one thinks he needs to be okay.
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Post by figrebirth on Jun 24, 2023 11:56:51 GMT -5
I always thought of anger as extreme irritation or annoyance, so I hope Gopal reads this cause he's been banging on about this for years and years! That's the way I see it too. Both anger and irritation are negative emotions, i.e. natural reactions to encountering unwanted. They only differ in intensity. That's the only difference. Yeah..."Negative" in the sense that there's an immediate judgment of "no/don't like this," but really, the difference in 'depth' of that judgment is everything.
Surface judgments are one thing, judgments that encompass and extend down to the fundamentals, another.
That said, from an impersonal viewpoint looking on at it all, it can be seen that the basic gamut of feelings as they move up/down between general contentment and a brief moment of "don't like this," really does not fit the term "negative" at all.
The idea that there can ever be a complete absence of "don't like this" within experience = a misconception...unnatural.
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Post by inavalan on Jun 24, 2023 13:40:02 GMT -5
You mean a place where there is no contrast (aka unwanted)? Even Abe say that they experience contrast. well, in any choice, there will be one that is preferred more than the other. I'm about to have breakfast...could have cereal or fruit....I'd rather have cereal today. But the fact that I don't want fruit isn't a problem or a pain in any way. So yeah, there'd be contrast, but I'd describe it as very superficial. In 'flow', the contrast is incredibly superficial. I'll get a fruit, then a cup of oatmeal ... "Pain" is relative, in my opinion and experience. For a man used to wonder if he has anything to eat, to just have to choose between cereal and fruit is a dream. For a man who eats an apple everyday, having to eat a variety of apple he doesn't enjoy much is a discomfort. It is the same thing with knowledge ... To know (whatever subject) or not-know, is a level of being. For a man with some knowledge, knowing has degrees of profoundness. Same thing with anything: to live / die, how you live. By the way: the choice of the variety of cereal and / or fruit is important, and could have painful consequences, even if that choice now might seem incredibly superficial. |
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Post by figrebirth on Jun 24, 2023 18:44:36 GMT -5
well, in any choice, there will be one that is preferred more than the other. I'm about to have breakfast...could have cereal or fruit....I'd rather have cereal today. But the fact that I don't want fruit isn't a problem or a pain in any way. So yeah, there'd be contrast, but I'd describe it as very superficial. In 'flow', the contrast is incredibly superficial. I'll get a fruit, then a cup of oatmeal ... "Pain" is relative, in my opinion and experience . For a man used to wonder if he has anything to eat, to just have to choose between cereal and fruit is a dream. For a man who eats an apple everyday, having to eat a variety of apple he doesn't enjoy much is a discomfort. It is the same thing with knowledge ... To know (whatever subject) or not-know, is a level of being. For a man with some knowledge, knowing has degrees of profoundness. Same thing with anything: to live / die, how you live. By the way: the choice of the variety of cereal and / or fruit is important, and could have painful consequences, even if that choice now might seem incredibly superficial. Damn....so sorry. So that sounds as though you have direct experience for what it means to truly go hungry...due to poverty or some other circumstance? Not many actually do.
I lived on 40 bucks per week when I first went on the road, singing/performing throughout Western Canada in a rock-band....went on for 2 years, before things got somewhat better.....80-90 per week....?...I ended living out of a suitcase for over 15 years bf settling down to an actual apt./home.....I tell ya....the bliss of that settling in....being able to cook nourishing meals in a kitchen....no words...
The initial shift to a few more bucks after 2 years, ,meant canned beans might give way to an actual cooked bowl of chili...holy cow...is that piece of garlic toast perhaps...?.... in the hotel diner.....I sometimes look back to those years and marvel that at the time, things didn't even register as particularly 'lean.' It's only in looking back that I truly can appreciate and hold gratitude for this present abundance. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2023 21:12:10 GMT -5
The truth here is that you are limiting existence, and existence cannot be limited (except paradoxically by your own limiting beliefs). Why would you prefer to hold a limiting belief? Perfectness is right now and here, everything moves around according our inner nature. We are creating the world around us and people in it with our belief and the clarity. New clarity will remove certain people from lives . How can you do that without personal selfhood? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2023 23:28:05 GMT -5
Perfectness is right now and here, everything moves around according our inner nature. We are creating the world around us and people in it with our belief and the clarity. New clarity will remove certain people from lives . How can you do that without personal selfhood? We are not having personal selfhood, the doer is always All That Is and we are that. Person Selfhood is believed to have exist. It's a wrong belief one has taken for himself. Agree? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2023 23:39:11 GMT -5
How can you do that without personal selfhood? We are not having personal selfhood, the doer is always All That Is and we are that. Person Selfhood is believed to have exist. It's a wrong belief one has taken for himself. Agree? If you say that we are creating the world then who is this we that is creating it? It must be you as a personal self with volition that is creating it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2023 5:00:04 GMT -5
We are not having personal selfhood, the doer is always All That Is and we are that. Person Selfhood is believed to have exist. It's a wrong belief one has taken for himself. Agree? If you say that we are creating the world then who is this we that is creating it? It must be you as a personal self with volition that is creating it. Then I must be able to move the mountains If I wish to . |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2023 6:18:00 GMT -5
If you say that we are creating the world then who is this we that is creating it? It must be you as a personal self with volition that is creating it. Then I must be able to move the mountains If I wish to . You said you are creating the world so that means you have created the mountains. If you have created the mountains why can't you move them? Maybe that's because you didn't create the world. |
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Post by andrew on Jun 25, 2023 11:40:51 GMT -5
well, in any choice, there will be one that is preferred more than the other. I'm about to have breakfast...could have cereal or fruit....I'd rather have cereal today. But the fact that I don't want fruit isn't a problem or a pain in any way. So yeah, there'd be contrast, but I'd describe it as very superficial. In 'flow', the contrast is incredibly superficial. I'll get a fruit, then a cup of oatmeal ... "Pain" is relative, in my opinion and experience. For a man used to wonder if he has anything to eat, to just have to choose between cereal and fruit is a dream. For a man who eats an apple everyday, having to eat a variety of apple he doesn't enjoy much is a discomfort. It is the same thing with knowledge ... To know (whatever subject) or not-know, is a level of being. For a man with some knowledge, knowing has degrees of profoundness. Same thing with anything: to live / die, how you live. By the way: the choice of the variety of cereal and / or fruit is important, and could have painful consequences, even if that choice now might seem incredibly superficial. yep, that all strikes me as true, though I was just using the example in that moment to illustrate that contrast ( 'want/don't want') can be an easy experience. |
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....you get the pic, I'm sure.