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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 22:29:23 GMT -5
I have never written something like that Aren't you suggesting here that if there was full clarity/SR, then things would not have arises the way they did?
It seems to me your point there is that IF ZD was completely clear and SR, the situation would have unfolded perfectly....an efficient driver vs. one who was not...?
And doesn't that mean then that in abiding SR/clarity, one would never again experience an in-efficient driver/cement pourer?
I was making him understand how situation is holding the power over him and that situation is part and parcel of his inner being expression. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 22:31:09 GMT -5
Yes, that conditioning is due to the belief that somebody over there has caused something. So that conditioning has to fade away followed by your realisation. Yes? The conditioning grounded in the belief eroded pretty quickly for me, and I've read that happens for many others that way. So no, not that.There's still visceral reactions though. Conditioned responses that short circuit any thinking. While these reactions never happen the same way after the realization about the emptiness at the center, and in my experience they also erode over time (but that might just be me getting old), they can still happen. But don't try to project too much onto that. Don't look "outside" for any answers about this. The same movement of mind that expects sainthood will always find fault, so that the expectation will never be fulfilled. Let me disagree with you here. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 22:32:42 GMT -5
Yes, false is not creating the reality because that doesn't exist. Our being creates the reality. But it won't create properly when it believes something that's not true, for an example when it believes that permanent happiness can be attained. Well, belief and being seem to me to be two notions that don't blend all that well, and I'd say there is no "our" being. Just, being. belief is not actually creating reality. When you start to believe something to be true, that's what creation is doing in you. It repeatedly creates that belief itself.
Yes, there is only one being.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 22:34:40 GMT -5
And then the next one is; Are you Absolutely certain that "creation" is what's actually happening? (That one goes hand in hand with taking a sincere, deep dive into the experience of 'time'). If we're talking Truth, is it actually so that experience is "being created"? A clear realization that "This is it," calls that idea into question...reveals the misconception that's in play there.
In the most uncompromising expression, there is no creation, only THIS. Here. Now. The unchanging absolute perfection of the ineffable. Creation presupposes a flow of time, and so is a misconception from word one. T The flip side is that change, is undeniable, and that is all time really is, absent any and all complication: change. Eternity is ever on the tip of ones tongue. Don't you know?  We keep creating our future through what we are doing now. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 22:35:21 GMT -5
It's not. He's describing a situation where an experience of bliss does not necessarily mean that a deep, dark venture into the depths of despair is coming directly after, as seems to be the point you are making. (If the wave of feeling goes very high on the emotional scale, it's inevitable that as it ebbs, it's gonna go real low...is that your position? ) Got up to the lake with Sue today.  How is she doing? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 22:44:36 GMT -5
I am well aware of that and you have to understand that did not make him suffer. I'm not saying it did, but based on what he conveyed, it sounded (understandably) as if there was some degree of stress in the situation. Suffering would have been like 'woe is me, this is terrible'. We have to ask him. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 22:45:56 GMT -5
Such situation wouldn't arise if your rollercoaster goes fine. so if someone has to evacuate because of local forest fire, then is their rollercoaster fine? What about if your employer demands that you have a vaccine that you don't really want, so that you keep your job (which was your situation)...is your rollercoaster fine then? How do you judge when a rollercoaster is fine, and when it isnt? If somebody demands something which we don't like, then you are on the wrong side of the rollercoaster. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 22:48:35 GMT -5
It is interesting to see people starting with a hypothesis, then trying to massage the reality they observe to fit that hypothesis. Funny things get invented. Hilarious justifications are stated seriously. You can't see people like Zendancer, laughter, figgles in your real world, They possesses some great knowledge. If you want to play role of a teacher, you would be missing something that they tend to teach you. Don't miss out anything that people say, they might be telling something important. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 23:03:52 GMT -5
It is the best example of what I have been saying. If I were there, then I would get angry too. But that's where my important point lies. It's not about making your inner cool, and let the outer world be whatever way it is. That's not what we are saying. Everything that gets unfolded is one single story , It could have occurred differently, may be an efficient driver's arrival might have made you happy. So there lies the point. If one has no expectations, no desires, no ideas about how life should be, no ideas about how other people should be, no worries about the future, no regrets about the past, no self image to defend, no second guessing of one's actions, no resentments, no "negative" feelings, total comfort in not-knowing what will happen next, and an open acceptance of "what is" as it is, one can be pretty happy being a nobody. I am not talking from personal level, I was saying All That Is would have created in a different way. I am talking from Impersonal Level.
Yes, that's why I am asking why are you resisting? Anger is resistance.
I am going to write something important, please read it carefully. When you repeat or accept this has to happen this way, that would keep creating circumstance like the one you described above like saw slightly cutting off your leg. If you are not paying attention you would be keep creating such situation again and again in your life. Catch hold of it even before it unfolds another bad circumstance for you. Love you from India.
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Post by andrew on Jun 21, 2023 23:06:06 GMT -5
I'm not saying it did, but based on what he conveyed, it sounded (understandably) as if there was some degree of stress in the situation. Suffering would have been like 'woe is me, this is terrible'. We have to ask him. sure, but a degree of stress is a healthy physical response in some contexts. Do you expect all 'self-realized' folks to be without any stress? I'd expect those folks to respond differently to stress, not necessarily to be without stress. |
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Post by inavalan on Jun 21, 2023 23:25:06 GMT -5
It is interesting to see people starting with a hypothesis, then trying to massage the reality they observe to fit that hypothesis. Funny things get invented. Hilarious justifications are stated seriously. You can't see people like Zendancer, laughter, figgles in your real world, They possesses some great knowledge. If you want to play role of a teacher, you would be missing something that they tend to teach you. Don't miss out anything that people say, they might be telling something important. You made my point ... |
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Post by inavalan on Jun 21, 2023 23:30:18 GMT -5
sure, but a degree of stress is a healthy physical response in some contexts. Do you expect all 'self-realized' folks to be without any stress? I'd expect those folks to respond differently to stress, not necessarily to be without stress. Why would you (impersonal) believe anybody he's found the truth? I don't think there is any way to tell. |
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Post by figrebirth on Jun 21, 2023 23:48:04 GMT -5
It's not. He's describing a situation where an experience of bliss does not necessarily mean that a deep, dark venture into the depths of despair is coming directly after, as seems to be the point you are making. ( ) >>If the wave of feeling goes very high on the emotional scale, it's inevitable that as it ebbs, it's gonna go real low...is that your position?<<
yes
And that's based upon what you have experienced, am I right about that? |
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Post by figrebirth on Jun 21, 2023 23:55:47 GMT -5
No. I am saying that even in the seeing through of the doer, the experience of a me character that does/accomplishes stuff, still to some degree remains.
Same with the experience of personal agency...it continues on as a facet of the dream/story, even after clearly seeing that there is no actual, fundamental responsibility/blame agency re: the appearing character.
For example; While I am clear that there is no separation....it's all one seamless unfolding and ultimately, no appearing character is fundamentally volitional, thus, he has no fundamental agency, if someone rams into my car, I'm still gonna take his insurance and file it as his 'fault' so as to pay for my car repair.
There are experiential facets that remain and continue to arise even though the fundamental Truth has been realized.
Such situation wouldn't arise if your rollercoaster goes fine. See....you ARE positing an overall life experience, where IF there is abiding clarity, nothing "unwanted" happens.
Regardless of how clear or awake you are, life is still going to contain a mixed bag of stuff that is liked/preferred and stuff that is not liked/unwanted. It's just the way the cookie crumbles....  And ultimately, that's just life...no inherent problem in that dance between preferred happenings and happenings that you're not so thrilled about.
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Post by figrebirth on Jun 22, 2023 0:00:53 GMT -5
Look closely. Basic Likes/dislikes (approval/disapproval) go hand in hand with basic up/down movement of feelings. Dramatic movements downward require the presence of deep judgements of an SVP. Otherwise, feelings all remain fundamentally okay....non-problematic...a moment of disappointment...aw shucks.... just arises and ebbs on through.
The basic emotion is part and part of the story in the sense that likes/dislikes are part and parcel of the story. You're never going to completely do away with personal judgment so long as a me character continues to arise in experience.
Your entire life has been a roller-coaster ride. When you are unaware that you are on a roller-coaster, you will want to feel more happiness and will push the happiness side of the roller-coaster (maybe by hearing songs) while rejecting the negative side. When you realize you're on the roller-coaster, you don't try to get away from either side; instead, you begin to walk off the battlefield and your sides of the roller-coaster gently drop down. But it would not go away. It would move up (with one story that you could appreciate), then down with another story. It makes no difference whether you like or dislike something. I can tell by the way you write that you haven't realized yet. Those two bolded assertions contradict each other. |
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And ultimately, that's just life...no inherent problem in that dance between preferred happenings and happenings that you're not so thrilled about.